after five years, i left islam. here's one huge contradiction in the qur`an

[firedragon]

I also try to take a look at the truth.

For example if I say my religion is the true religion because we have many followers and the growth, then I guess catholics are a greater truth and religion. Is god blessing their efforts?

Thats true. I dont know who God is blessing.

 

[anonymous9887]

Thats true. I dont know who God is blessing.

So I think we both agree that we can examine what has been given us (scriptures) and research on god to draw a conclusion rather then saying well the bible is the most produced book in the world, or the Qur'an is the only book that can be memorized or you know what I mean. The interpretation of the evidence that is available.

 

[firedragon]

So I think we both agree that we can examine what has been given us (scriptures) and research on god to draw a conclusion rather then saying well the bible is the most produced book in the world, or the Qur'an is the only book that can be memorized or you know what I mean. The interpretation of the evidence that is available.

Of course. If not theres no point.

But we worship people.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Because we make bad choices.

Oh, indeed we do!

But Adam had a direct relationship with god, all he had to do is "choose" to inquire of god for direction. We don't have that communication any more.

I have a direct relationship with God.

 

[Sabour]

Because we make bad choices.
But Adam had a direct relationship with god, all he had to do is "choose" to inquire of god for direction. We don't have that communication any more.

We have something called Salat estikhara. We do this Salat when we have a choice to make and we are not sure what the future holds and we don't know whether such decision would be good for us or not.

According to Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 21, Number 263:
Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah :The Prophet (Sallal Laho Alaihi Wasallam) used to teach us the way of doing Istikhara, in all matters as he taught us the Suras of the Quran. He said, "If anyone of you thinks of doing any job he should offer a two Rakat prayer other than the compulsory ones and say (after the prayer):


We do this salat and say a certain prayer asking God that if doing that thing is good for us that Allah would guide us for it, and if not, than we ask Allah to make a distance between us and that thing.

Here is a translation of the prayer:

TRANSLATION: "O Allah! I seek goodness from Your Knowledge and with Your Power (and Might) I seek strength, and I ask from You Your Great Blessings, because You have the Power and I do not have the power. You Know everything and I do not know, and You have knowledge of the unseen. Oh Allah! If in Your Knowledge this action ------------------------------------------------ (which I intend to do) is better for my religion and faith, for my life and end [death], for here [in this world] and the hereafter then make it destined for me and make it easy for me and then add blessings [baraka'] in it, for me. O Allah! In Your Knowledge if this action is bad for me, bad for my religion and faith, for my life and end [death], for here [in this world] and the hereafter then turn it away from me and turn me away from it and whatever is better for me, ordain [destine] that for me and then make me satisfied with it."

 

[The_Fisher_King]

They are not the same ideas.

I think they are. Both involve the notion of a God who has the power to prevent (a lot of) suffering, but chooses not to.

3. - either god created us to test us with evil things from the beginning and he is responsible for it.
- or god created a good life for us in the beginning that mankind rejected and continues rejecting. Yes what a bummer that "people" select to do bad in this world.

I reject both of these positions. I reject this idea that God created us solely to test us, to see what we would choose. Rather, I believe that God created us to liberate the spirits that Satan has trapped in the energetic-material universe. God is locked in an Eternal Battle with Satan, and we were created as God's soldiers in this Battle.

4. Here is another theological scenario
- if someone right now hypothetically speaking is sitting down and all of a sudden he stabs his wife and she dies, and she is not a muslim, was that gods will?

- now if he stabbed her and she dies and has a family and 3 kids was that Allah's will or the man's choice?

- what if she is muslim and she dies and her death will cause struggles for her children, was that Allah's will?

These are questions for my fellow Muslims rather than me.

 

[anonymous9887]

We have something called Salat estikhara. We do this Salat when we have a choice to make and we are not sure what the future holds and we don't know whether such decision would be good for us or not.

According to Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 21, Number 263:
Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah :The Prophet (Sallal Laho Alaihi Wasallam) used to teach us the way of doing Istikhara, in all matters as he taught us the Suras of the Quran. He said, "If anyone of you thinks of doing any job he should offer a two Rakat prayer other than the compulsory ones and say (after the prayer):


We do this salat and say a certain prayer asking God that if doing that thing is good for us that Allah would guide us for it, and if not, than we ask Allah to make a distance between us and that thing.

Here is a translation of the prayer:

TRANSLATION: "O Allah! I seek goodness from Your Knowledge and with Your Power (and Might) I seek strength, and I ask from You Your Great Blessings, because You have the Power and I do not have the power. You Know everything and I do not know, and You have knowledge of the unseen. Oh Allah! If in Your Knowledge this action ------------------------------------------------ (which I intend to do) is better for my religion and faith, for my life and end [death], for here [in this world] and the hereafter then make it destined for me and make it easy for me and then add blessings [baraka'] in it, for me. O Allah! In Your Knowledge if this action is bad for me, bad for my religion and faith, for my life and end [death], for here [in this world] and the hereafter then turn it away from me and turn me away from it and whatever is better for me, ordain [destine] that for me and then make me satisfied with it."

I can guarantee that there are times that Muslims do this, and they don't get the results they want. It's a given.

 

[anonymous9887]

I think they are. Both involve the notion of a God who has the power to prevent (a lot of) suffering, but chooses not to.



I reject both of these positions. I reject this idea that God created us solely to test us, to see what we would choose. Rather, I believe that God created us to liberate the spirits that Satan has trapped in the energetic-material universe. God is locked in an Eternal Battle with Satan, and we were created as God's soldiers in this Battle.



These are questions for my fellow Muslims rather than me.

1. Well you reject what majority of muslims claim, god created us to test us? Why else create humans? I have heard it many times before from educated muslims.

Yes I agree that God can prevent things from happening even from people making bad choices, but then where is the free will?

Free will is what you have to understand. If Allah does everything as his will, where then is our free will?

 

[anonymous9887]

I think they are. Both involve the notion of a God who has the power to prevent (a lot of) suffering, but chooses not to.



I reject both of these positions. I reject this idea that God created us solely to test us, to see what we would choose. Rather, I believe that God created us to liberate the spirits that Satan has trapped in the energetic-material universe. God is locked in an Eternal Battle with Satan, and we were created as God's soldiers in this Battle.



These are questions for my fellow Muslims rather than me.

Then again why would God create us if satan was going to entrap us, it would be to test us, since that is what most muslims say is the purpose in this life (a test).
Why did God create us to die?
Because a test was Intended from allah

 

[The_Fisher_King]

There is one fact that both you and I agree on. EVIL EXISTS

Absolutely.

1. Either that was gods initial plan to test us with evil.
2. He created all things good for us to benefit and his plan was a paradise, but we chose the other direction. Even if he knew our choice, we made the choice not him.
2nd we also have the answer to why he allows it.

See my response to your post 752.

 

[Sabour]

I can guarantee that there are times that Muslims do this, and they don't get the results they want. It's a given.

The results we want is for Allah to guide us for the better choice, and He always does if we were truthful.

Just for clarification, it is not necessary that the result would come in the form of a dream, and it is not certain a kind of miracle that would happen and that Allah would speak to us. It could be in the form of dream according to certain scholars but major of the times it goes to the certain turn out of events, or the feelings towards something, or it could be that Allah opens your mind to new information and reasons.

We can't see the future and we can't know how certain things would work out. We may something would be good for us whereas in reality it would be bad. So we can't really say if it worked or not on the face of it. However, in Islam, we believe that it works every single time if we were sincere.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Well you reject what majority of muslims claim, god created us to test us?

Yes.

Why else create humans?

I have already answered this - see above posts.

I have heard it many times before from educated muslims.

So?

If Allah does everything as his will, where then is our free will?

I have said already, Allaah is not omnipotent. Some things happen against His Will.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Then again why would God create us if satan was going to entrap us, it would be to test us,

God did not create Satan. And God did not create the early universe either - Satan did. Nor can God control Satan.

Why did God create us to die?

God created us to serve Him in His Battle against Satan. Death is just a passing thing. Life is eternal.

Because a test was Intended from allah

No.

 

[anonymous9887]

The results we want is for Allah to guide us for the better choice, and He always does if we were truthful.

Just for clarification, it is not necessary that the result would come in the form of a dream, and it is not certain a kind of miracle that would happen and that Allah would speak to us. It could be in the form of dream according to certain scholars but major of the times it goes to the certain turn out of events, or the feelings towards something, or it could be that Allah opens your mind to new information and reasons.

We can't see the future and we can't know how certain things would work out. We may something would be good for us whereas in reality it would be bad. So we can't really say if it worked or not on the face of it. However, in Islam, we believe that it works every single time if we were sincere.

Believing and it being a reality are 2 different things. What if there was a person that was sincere (which I'm sure this scenario exists) and does this prayer and gets lead astray, is that on Allah making a poor choice for the gentlemen?

 

[anonymous9887]

God did not create Satan. And God did not create the early universe either - Satan did. Nor can God control Satan.



God created us to serve Him in His Battle against Satan. Death is just a passing thing. Life is eternal.



No.

Now your Just being silly. Lol

1. God does have the power to control the universe.
2. God can control satan if he wanted to, but he gives us free will.
3. God can do all things, but god also has choices as to when he can and can't exercise his powers.

Free will is what I don't think you comprehend.

 

[anonymous9887]

Oh, indeed we do!



I have a direct relationship with God.

Yes so do I, but you don't have a relationship the way Adam,moses, Jesus, or any other of the prophets did. They had communication with the super natural.

 

[anonymous9887]

Of course. If not theres no point.

But we worship people.

Worship people?

 

[anonymous9887]

God did not create Satan. And God did not create the early universe either - Satan did. Nor can God control Satan.



God created us to serve Him in His Battle against Satan. Death is just a passing thing. Life is eternal.



No.

Free will is beautiful ain't it.

1. God did create Satan good.
2. God did create the angels
3. God did create humans
4. God did create free will (giving us the opportunity to choose good)
5. God does have the ability to control all things and micromanage the world
6. God created free will and Just because he is isn't exercising his full power at this moment does not mean he will not exercise his power in the last day.

 

[Sabour]

God created us to serve Him in His Battle against Satan. Death is just a passing thing. Life is eternal.

My friend, Allah is not in a battle against satan, if anyone is in a battle against satan, it is us. That is because of satan's intentions.

 

[Sabour]

Believing and it being a reality are 2 different things. What if there was a person that was sincere (which I'm sure this scenario exists) and does this prayer and gets lead astray, is that on Allah making a poor choice for the gentlemen?

When I said the word "I believe" what in my mind was an Arabic word "أؤمن"

Supposedly and the way it should be, we muslims use this word when we are absolutely sure that something about a religion is true and that is by proof from the Quraan or Ahadith. So when we refer to this world, this means we are sure that this is the reality. ( I understand that you may not but I am just clarifying ) I said in my previous response (if they are sincere), the word itself has many requirements.

Also what you replied can't be the case. As you know we believe in the Quraan to be the Word of Allah,

2:186
And when My servants ask you, [O Muhammad], concerning Me - indeed I am near. I respond to the invocation of the supplicant when he calls upon Me. So let them respond to Me [by obedience] and believe in Me that they may be [rightly] guided.