after five years, i left islam. here's one huge contradiction in the qur`an

[The_Fisher_King]

No because we don't know if those people back then even had the same dedication.

The same claim can be made about those who wrote the documents that you seem to place such great stock by.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

You and others claim god is fully responsible for everything that is going on around us

Where did I say that?

 

[The_Fisher_King]

You and others claim god is fully responsible for everything that is going on around us, and is intimately involved.

1. God had a perfect way of life set before us to be under his full direction.
2. I believe God not being involved in the world is actually the problem with the world. We have these problems because the majority of the human race choose to follow their own wayward course.
3. If we follow the scriptures we will have a better life.
4. God has gotten involved in that he put a solution to the alienation from god to reconcile us back to him.
5. To say god is responsible for creating us to die, creating us to suffer, creating us to be in poverty, created us to be molested, created us to be disabled, created us to be killed, created us to be tortured, created us to fight, this idea that God willed that for us is completely irrational. If a human would not do that out of love for human kind how much more so god who is the greatest good.
6. Not to mention that if all the people that suffered those things don't believe in god because bad people have it better and there is no justice, how can god still put people in eternal fire to suffer forever.
7. My god created all things good. Our free will created this corrupt world and the explanation of what went wrong and why it is taking some time, as to what had to be accomplished 1st before he brings satan to a finish and the wicked people.
8. But one thing is great about my god, his intentions were never for us to suffer, a situation came up because of Satan's free will, and god had to respond.

So God can prevent someone from being crippled, but chooses not to?

 

[The_Fisher_King]

What do you think? Whose stories are there in the Quran bro?

Whats the content of the Quran? Is it about people in the Saudi region during 7th century?

I was asked to provide third party attestation of the Quran and the example was Jesus being mentioned by Josephus and Tacitus. Bible and Quran are Chalk and Cheese. Bible is a narration of stories. Gospels narrate the story of Jesus, four different books on the story of Jesus. Its more of Theology about Jesus, not the Theology of Jesus. Then there are other writings which were letters and books like revelations.

The Quran is not the same. It contains concise narrations of historical figures much much much more than Muhammed. Muhammeds story is not cited at all. Nor any of ME characters during his time. Thus, external attestation of even Muhammed is an absurd requirement for the veracity the Quran.

That was my point which I am still not sure if you got. On the phone, cant type too much.

Cheers.

Salaam,

I don't dispute what you say above. However, you said something else previously: that the Qur'aan is not relevant to 'that time, place or people'. That sounds like you are saying that the Qur'aan just wasn't applicable to the time of the Prophet (saws), which in turn implies that it was meant for another time/place...

Wassalaam

 

[anonymous9887]

The same claim can be made about those who wrote the documents that you seem to place such great stock by.

Yeah the problem is that people require evidence to believe someone's statement, and in a court of law we would have more reliability than those individuals that are claimed to have known the Qur'an in perfect memory.

 

[anonymous9887]

So God can prevent someone from being crippled, but chooses not to?

God does not get involved intimately to that degree anymore. There are to many scenarios that simply cannot be explained.

 

[firedragon]

Salaam,

I don't dispute what you say above. However, you said something else previously: that the Qur'aan is not relevant to 'that time, place or people'. That sounds like you are saying that the Qur'aan just wasn't applicable to the time of the Prophet (saws), which in turn implies that it was meant for another time/place...

Wassalaam

Err. Alright.

 

[anonymous9887]

Err. Alright.

Hey these arguments to the side, what are the signs of the last days according to the Qur'an?

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Yeah the problem is that people require evidence to believe someone's statement, and in a court of law we would have more reliability than those individuals that are claimed to have known the Qur'an in perfect memory.

What evidence did Jesus bring? He wasn't alone in performing miracles. Satan and their servants are also very capable of performing miracles. At some point, belief, faith, enters the equation. God's Court is not the same as a human court of law. It operates according to different standards. Evidence comes in different forms.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

God does not get involved intimately to that degree anymore.

But He could, in principle, if He wanted to?

There are to many scenarios that simply cannot be explained.

I don't quite understand what you are saying here. Do you mean that it's difficult to square the idea of a perfect, loving, omnipotent God with all the suffering that happens in the world?

 

[anonymous9887]

What evidence did Jesus bring? He wasn't alone in performing miracles. Satan and their servants are also very capable of performing miracles. At some point, belief, faith, enters the equation. God's Court is not the same as a human court of law. It operates according to different standards. Evidence comes in different forms.

Actually that is blind faith. I am sure that god is very reasonable. because there are people that need physical evidence to put faith in gods future promises. but I respect your opinion.

 

[anonymous9887]

But He could, in principle, if He wanted to?



I don't quite understand what you are saying here. Do you mean that it's difficult to square the idea of a perfect, loving, omnipotent God with all the suffering that happens in the world?

Yes a loving god Is not responsible for causing injustices to happen to a person. of that I am certain.

Example is in Genesis.
1. everyone and everything god created was good.
2. there was no sickness or death, and everything was perfect.
3. God gave Adam commandments and obligations and only not to eat from the tree.
4. God created a wife for Adam which was also good.
5. Can we blame God For Satan trying to mislead eve even though Eve didn't have to listen to him?
6.Can we blame god for Adam choosing to eat from the fruit even after god told him the consequences?
7. These are 3 individuals that had a mind of their own to make a choice? so Can we blame god for the choices they made?
8. they could have used gods gift of free will to obey god, as god had planned.
9. how can we blame god for free will. free will is a beautiful thing and god will allow free will until his full plan is accomplished.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Actually that is blind faith. I am sure that god is very reasonable. because there are people that need physical evidence to put faith in gods future promises. but I respect your opinion.

So what physical evidence did Jesus bring?

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Yes a loving god Is not responsible for causing injustices to happen to a person. of that I am certain.

Example is in Genesis.
1. everyone and everything god created was good.
2. there was no sickness or death, and everything was perfect.
3. God gave Adam commandments and obligations and only not to eat from the tree.
4. God created a wife for Adam which was also good.
5. Can we blame God For Satan trying to mislead eve even though Eve didn't have to listen to him?
6.Can we blame god for Adam choosing to eat from the fruit even after god told him the consequences?
7. These are 3 individuals that had a mind of their own to make a choice? so Can we blame god for the choices they made?
8. they could have used gods gift of free will to obey god, as god had planned.
9. how can we blame god for free will. free will is a beautiful thing and god will allow free will until his full plan is accomplished.

Is God omniscient?

 

[anonymous9887]

So what physical evidence did Jesus bring?

oh man that is a research you will have to do on your own, because it is extensive research. but when you examine closely the eye witnesses and the secular evidence from other sources than the bible it really tarts to put things into a more credible story that really happened.

A book to read Jesus on trial. I will try to answer later, I don't have my own personal notes as well, oh and there is one messianic prophesy that provides the time in which Jesus would come.

 

[anonymous9887]

Is God omniscient?

Yes, so go ahead, I know where you are going with this.

 

[anonymous9887]

Is God omniscient?

this is also a very broad study, because there is 2 options for gods being omniscient
1. Either god has no control over that ability and knows all things at all times, or
2. God has full control of his abilities and can choose to use his abilities whenever and however he chooses.

But I can defend my beliefs either way.

 

[firedragon]

Hey these arguments to the side, what are the signs of the last days according to the Qur'an?

No point. Because you will reply "Its not what others say". If you want to hear what others say ask from others.

 

[firedragon]

1. everyone and everything god created was good.

Oh, the serpent evolved naturally.

 

[anonymous9887]

No point. Because you will reply "Its not what others say". If you want to hear what others say ask from others.

No actually I am interested, it's not like my mind is closed, my mind could change as my research progresses.