yokomodoful
Member
They are the same. The old testament should be looked at in the light of the new. We have three readings at Mass every day and one is always from the old testament.
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All loving or morally reprehensible?
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They are the same. The old testament should be looked at in the light of the new. We have three readings at Mass every day and one is always from the old testament.
The "why" of suffering, rather than the cause of it. I know that Judaism teaches that everything, good and bad, comes from Yahweh. I even mentioned that to InChrist in this thread. Like I said, the book of Job doesn't explain why Job suffers. Towards the end of the book, Yahweh just kind of bursts into the conversation Job's having on it with some other people (that's the whole point of the book - it's a debate over why Job is experiencing such calamity), and basically tells Job that it's not his place to question such things, i.e. "shut up and don't question it, because you'll never understand it and I'm superior to you". After that, Job agrees with Yahweh and gives up his questioning. Then he repents for questioning the ways of Yahweh, then Yahweh gives him wealth and a new family. The end. No answers are given.
yokomodoful
Member
Suffering is not always evil. Separation from God is the definition of Hell. Suffering is an opportunity to bring Gods love and bring his kingdom to earth.
Yes, Catholicism loves suffering. It loves suffering so much that it's almost a sacrament in of itself. Suffer your way into "holiness". It's an S&M religion.
I think the cause of the effect IS the " why". This applies everywhere. Then again I may be mixing up the theology with my own views haha.
yokomodoful
Member
We don't love suffering. The faith teaches that our will united to His Will should dictate our actions not avoiding suffering. However this is easier to say than to do.
If you followed His will you would not avoid suffering?
Well, it's debatable if those who take on the mortification of the flesh as a physical practice (such as self-flagellation and crucifying themselves during Lenten celebrations) actually enjoy what they're doing, but Catholicism certainly likes suffering and views it as holy. Which is probably one of the underlying reasons that Catholicism is so against euthanasia for the terminally ill. When you suffer, it is seen as coming into unity with Jesus. Mother Teresa would praise the suffering of the poor as holy.
Saying that Yahweh is responsible for it doesn't answer why "he" does it or why it happens. It doesn't answer the question of purpose.
yokomodoful
Member
Yes. I believe your quotes "because you'll never understand and I'm superior to you" is the answer. It sounds arrogant and egotistical because we imagine a man saying it. If it is true, it is not egotistical.
Nope, I'm mixing my idea of no purpose with theology haha. My bad, now let's continue...
Lol. I see.
yokomodoful
Member
Catholics should not be crucifying themselves - self mutilation is considered a sin. Euthenasia is wrong because it is a sin to kill or committ suicide. Remember I said the goal was unite your will to His Will, not run away from suffering and choose sin.
yokomodoful
Member
Nevermind that "he" never even tried to explain it.
If He knew you wouldnt understand, why would He try.
That's a very American viewpoint and isn't found in traditional Catholicism and in other cultures. Whipping oneself bloody has been a common practice of many beloved saints and I don't hear the Vatican decrying those crucifixion displays and processions of flagellants that occur around the world during Good Friday. It's viewed as a way of uniting one's self to Jesus, to expiate sin and "put to death" the sinful flesh. All of that is perfectly in line with Catholic theology.
I know what the official reasoning is, but I question if the Church's praise of suffering as holy is an underlying reason for it.
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adi2d
Active Member
yokomodoful
Member
The fillipino tradition was condemed by the catholic church.
Interesting. That still leaves the myriad of other practices of mortification, however.
yokomodoful
Member
Dodge what?