Ironically, English is my first language and I'm an English teacher. I had brain surgery for seizures; so, I can't put together full paragraphs without breaking it up. With grammar and spelling, I type faster than I think. 'bout time I get to the end, I've written a whole page and sometimes I'll go back to edit but I don't catch them all.
“I was saved in Jesus.”
Do you mean (?): Through the story, teachings and beliefs of Jesus; I was saved. // “I was saved by the teachings of Jesus” (?)
Actually, no. I came into the Catholic Church as an adult for a good four years. I wasn't indoctrinated though my outside family are protestant. Given the history of christianity, everything I based christianity on is from the Church. Whether it's Orthodox or Roman is up for grabs.
One day I was going to work. On my way through the city, there are many people holding signs to ask for money and food because they are homeless. I saw one sign that quoted Galations 2:20 which said,
"I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me."
When I was confirmed, I went to Mass daily. Then I realized that Christianity (like Judaism) isn't an individual faith. It's a communal faith. When you come together in one body, you make jesus present. (Mathew 18:20). Then you have verses that talk about the body of christ and all the parts of the body have to work together. When I think of The Church, I think of the body of christ-christ himself. When you are in one body, you are as one. So you are crucified (die in/with) christ by communion, and together when you die in christ, you no longer live for yourself but for the brothers and sisters that make up christ body. You don't worship christ himself-the person. That's idolism. He spoke against that. You worship
in the body and
as the body of christ so you are in service to each other and to the people around you. "With him, in him, through him" is all about the people not the person. It's about communing in one mass and when you come together in one mass, you come together as children of god. You are in god's presence when you commune as one body. You can't commune alone.
That's what I mean by crucified in christ. You die in his passion. In Mass, you repent, live, die, and resurrected all in one setting. You take part in the sacrificial meal (the Eucharist) and when all people take part in the meal, christ is present in that meal-that bonding glue that makes people one body officially. Then you are resurrected when you receive the final blessings and penance or prayer after mass.
I don't agree that you can be saved by the teachings of jesus. I believe to be saved, you have to be in communion with brothers and sisters in christ.
“According to your points, do you think it makes more sense that believers are saved in christ rather than christ saving each person individually?”
Yes. Christ, the person, isn't alive. He can't physically save you. You have to take an action for him to be present. I actually don't like the phrase "jesus saved me from my sins." Jesus taught that god forgives
through jesus' crucifixion. God saved you not jesus. Jesus is an intermediary not god himself. In Mass, you are saved because jesus becomes an intermediary to your salvation. It's against OT laws to worship the person who brought you to the mountain rather than the person at the top of the mountain.
If I understand correctly, you are saying that the Christian believer, is saved in the knowledge of Christ and in the acknowledgement of Christ. That the stories (or histories) told in the New Testament, are accepted by the Christian Believer as Truth, as Good.
No. It's through the body or people in christ that come to mass and make christ present in his sacrificial meal. It's repentance (confession), communion (eucharist and mass), and saying jesus is your lord and savior (confirmation). Salvation is an action not a gift. It's a lifestyle.
I mean, anyone can believe jesus' teachings. Bahai believes in jesus teachings and so do Muslims. That doesn't make them christians.
So I repeat.
Therefore; the Christian is saved in his knowledge of Christ, in his acknowledgement of Christ.
If this is what you mean, then I think it makes sense.
The Christian is saved within the body of christ by the sacrificial meal, repentance, confession, and confirmation. Satan acknowledges christ. He isn't part of the body, though.
And I must conclude that; as the Christian is saved “IN” Christ by “BELIEVING” in Christ therefor have “FAITH” in Christ; it also means that Jesus “Saved” each Christian individually.
I saw it differently. I wouldn't say right or wrong since I don't practice. Anyone can believe anything. Believing doesn't
do anything. Faith is just believing in things one can't prove. It's trust. That doesn't
do anything. Christ taught actions come with faith. That belief has to be strong and he compared it to different soils on who has surface level belief/understanding and who has devotional/deep levels of understanding.
I mean, I can trust jesus and believe in jesus all I want if I wanted to, but if I don't participate in his body, then christ isn't present. It's just how I would want to feel but not what is actually taught in scripture and by the body itself.
((**And I just realised that I changed your use of the word *Believer for *Christian during my investigation, and that I was wrong to do so; as you do mean “Believer in Christ” and believing in Christ doesn’t make one a “Christian”. Sorry about that
**))
Haha. It's okay. I didn't catch it. Honestly? No. Believing in christ doesn't make one a christian. Acting and participating with his body does.
Believing that I want to kill someone does not make me a murderer. Actually killing someone does.
…whether the believer was in peril or not in peril in the first place is irrelevant; whether the believer was a sinner or a non-sinner is also irrelevant. Because in this understanding of the words “Christ saved us all”, means that by adhering to and following his teachings (Christ’s) the believer is following the Path of Good. Therefor was saved, and is constantly saved; by Jesus and by himself for following Jesus.
Christ can't save you if he isn't present. You have to make him present through communion.
I must say this is very interesting.
Yeah. My Catholic friend told me that I'd be a very devoted Christian if I ever went back to christianity. Some people don't believe that I'm not a christian (I don't participate in Mass).
Although, for the believer to be completely saved that way; we must first assume that the teachings of Jesus are ultimately good. And if they are, then the believer must follow these teachings, and not just believe in them; i.e. acting in and out of these boundaries (or morals) as his will dictates.
Seeing the teachings as good doesn't save. Believing doesn't make you a christian. The
act of faith does. The actual participation does. I mean, in mass, I noticed a lot of people have never even owned a bible. Yet, when we talk, it's like they know the bible more than many protestants that quote the bible back to back. It's based on devotion not knowledge.
Since Jesus did not write these words; it is other people’s rendition of the word and life of Christ that we are reading. We are therefor not reading the word of Christ; but the words of his apostles.
Pretty much. Thats why I wonder why people quote the bible so much. It's not about the bible itself-the words.
It's about Christ-the
Word (of god).
Ironically, even the bible says this.
I will be honest, I am not well versed in these texts. I’ve read some of them, but not all of them – and it was a long time ago, when I was younger. I would have to read them again to be able to have a better grasp of them.
The bible text? I read the bible once and read half of it the second time. I can't understand how people can get to god through the bible. It's a devotional practice not knowledge of scripture.
Thank you for your answer, it was really interesting for me to think about all that.
You're welcome.
