Allah Is Same As Elohim

[Popeyesays]

"Whatsoever can be discerned on earth amply demonstrateth the power of God, His knowledge and the outpourings of His bounty, while He Himself is immeasurably exalted above all creatures." (Baha'u'llah, Tablets of Baha'u'llah, p. 61)

 

[Mercy Not Sacrifice]

Allah is not the God of the Bible, no way. The Bible says that God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in HIM shall not perish but have everlasting life. Islam says, "Alah has no son." One is right, and one is dead wrong. Either God sent His Son to pay for the sin of the world by paying the penalty of sin, which is death, or God has no Son. In light of the thousands of precise, exact, fullfilled scripture of the Bible compared to one self-fulfilling one in the Koran, I will go with the God who sent His Son. (Mohammad 'predicted' that he would go to Mecca, easy enough to do, Jesus predicted that He would rise from the dead the third day, not so easy) And that is only one of the many differences.

Being worshipped differently does not imply existing separately. Hell, if you went that route, then just about every Christian denomination--or possibly every Christian, if we want to get down to it--has its own god.

 

[joeboonda]

1. Jesus came to earth to die in payment of our sins, by trusting in Him, that His death paid for our sins, we are saved, according to the authority of Holy Scripture:

_____

1. Matthew 16:21
   [ Jesus Predicts His Death ] From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.
   Matthew 17:12
   But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands."
2. Mark 8:31
   [ Jesus Predicts His Death ] He then began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and after three days rise again.
   9:12
   Jesus replied, "To be sure, Elijah does come first, and restores all things. Why then is it written that the Son of Man must suffer much and be rejected?
   Luke 9:22
   And he said, "The Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life."
3. 17:25
   But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation.
   22:15
   And he said to them, "I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer.
   24:26
   Did not the Christ have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?"
   24:46
   He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day,
   1:3
   After his suffering, he showed himself to these men and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God.
   3:18
   But this is how God fulfilled what he had foretold through all the prophets, saying that his Christ would suffer.
4. 17:3
   explaining and proving that the Christ had to suffer and rise from the dead. "This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is the Christ, " he said.
   26:23
   that the Christ would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would proclaim light to his own people and to the Gentiles."
   Hebrews 9:26
   ... But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the agesto do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.
5. 13:12
   And so Jesus also suffered outside the city gate to make the people holy through his own blood.
6. John 11:50
   You do not realize that it is better for you that one man die for the people than that the whole nation perish."
   11:51
   He did not say this on his own, but as high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the Jewish nation,
   32But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself." 33He said this to show the kind of death he was going to die.
7. 19:7
   The Jews insisted, "We have a law, and according to that law he must die, because he claimed to be the Son of God."
8. Romans 5:6
   You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly.
   5:8
   But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
9. 5:15
   But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!
   8:34
   Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.
10. 14:9
    For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
11. I Corinthians 15:3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,
12. 2 Corinthians 5:14
    For Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, ...
13. 5:15
    And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.
    Galatians 2:21
    I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!"
    1 Thessalonians 4:14
    We believe that Jesus died and rose again...
14. 5:10
    He died for us so that...we may live together with him.
    Hebrews 9:15
    For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free...
15. 1 Peter 2:24
    He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree...
16. 3:18
    For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God...
17. Revelation 2:8
    ...These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again.

 

[Popeyesays]

1. Jesus came to earth to die in payment of our sins, by trusting in Him, that His death paid for our sins, we are saved, according to the authority of Holy Scripture:

_____

There is not a single quote in all that with which I disagree.

There is not a single quote in all that which has the slightest bearing on the question originally posted in this thread.

Regards,
Scott

 

[joeboonda]

There is not a single quote in all that with which I disagree.

There is not a single quote in all that which has the slightest bearing on the question originally posted in this thread.

Regards,
Scott

Lol, cool. It was in response to some other posts made here. The Bible declares Jesus Christ to be the Son of God who died for us to pay our sin-debt. Muslims don't believe God had a Son, nor do they believe in Jesus for salvation, theirs is a 'works' based religion.

 

[Popeyesays]

Lol, cool. It was in response to some other posts made here. The Bible declares Jesus Christ to be the Son of God who died for us to pay our sin-debt. Muslims don't believe God had a Son, nor do they believe in Jesus for salvation, theirs is a 'works' based religion.

I think you're not giving 'works' the proper respect. What good is faith without works? What defines 'lukewarm' better than faith in the mouth and not in the heart? Works come from commitment to faith.

The people of the time had the same o9pportunity to accept Jesus that the people had to accept Moses, Abraham, Zoroaster, Muhammad, the Bab or Baha`u'llah. As the Qur'an says God sends to the people the Prophet, when the Prophet is not what the people like, the kill some and despise others.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Mercy Not Sacrifice]

But you do realise that Muslims believe in Jesus the person, right? And they believe in the same Father Abraham that Christians do, right?

 

[Popeyesays]

But you do realise that Muslims believe in Jesus the person, right? And they believe in the same Father Abraham that Christians do, right?

Those captive by literalism would say no. When Jesus left His believers behind, misunderstandings and superstition began to eat away at open-mindedness. The same is true for the passing of Muhammad. Believers left behind without an expressed authority to interpret and guide are always subject to error. But one should consider that if that was the case with Christianity and Islam it was God's purpose to do so. There is a point after the Prophet at which responsibility must descend upon the individual again. The passing of the Prophet is a time of test for the Prophet's followers, some do better with that test than others.

Regards,
Scott

 

[joeboonda]

I think you're not giving 'works' the proper respect. What good is faith without works? What defines 'lukewarm' better than faith in the mouth and not in the heart? Works come from commitment to faith.

The people of the time had the same o9pportunity to accept Jesus that the people had to accept Moses, Abraham, Zoroaster, Muhammad, the Bab or Baha`u'llah. As the Qur'an says God sends to the people the Prophet, when the Prophet is not what the people like, the kill some and despise others.

Regards,
Scott

We are saved by faith, UNTO good works, not by them. We do the good works BECAUSE we are saved, not to get or stay saved:

Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Ephesians2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

2 Timothy 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Also, Jesus Christ is not just a prophet equal to these others, He is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, and we are to trust in Him and Him alone for salvation.

 

[joeboonda]

But you do realise that Muslims believe in Jesus the person, right? And they believe in the same Father Abraham that Christians do, right?

They believe he was a good man, a teacher, or prophet, but they do NOT believe IN Him for salvation, the devils believe and tremble, but to completely trust in, believe in Jesus for remission of sins, they do not, its a big difference.

 

[Popeyesays]

Well, Joe, I believe God's grace is as infinite as His Justice. I also think Muslims are well-protected by the Grace of God, it's a shame to think that Grace is rationed out and restricted when it so evidently abounds around us. Others might notice that Joe quoted none of the words attributed to Jesus. Jesus was more generous.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Rolling_Stone]

Uh, guys? "Elohim" is plural. The singular is Eloah.

 

[Ozzie]

Allah just means "The God". Allah is without a doubt the same God, and has the same Abrahamic roots as Judaism and Christianity.
Mohammed said this himself, and Christians and Jews are considered "people of the book".


--des

If this is without a doubt the same God, why violence? Is Lebanon internally at peace because they believe in the same God?

 

[michel]

If this is without a doubt the same God, why violence? Is Lebanon internally at peace because they believe in the same God?

Good point - unfortunately.

If only the whole world could learn to be objective, to be understanding, and - above all - to "Live and let live"

 

[wizanda]

Uh, guys? "Elohim" is plural. The singular is Eloah.

What I was going to post, also El is God....Elohim is often angels also....

 

[Popeyesays]

What I was going to post, also El is God....Elohim is often angels also....

And for God to refer to Himself in the plural in sacred scriptures is routine in almost any language.

It is referred to in English as the Deific We and goes along with the Royal We and the Editorial We.

Regards,
Scott

 

[joeboonda]

Well, Joe, I believe God's grace is as infinite as His Justice. I also think Muslims are well-protected by the Grace of God, it's a shame to think that Grace is rationed out and restricted when it so evidently abounds around us. Others might notice that Joe quoted none of the words attributed to Jesus. Jesus was more generous.

Regards,
Scott

Jesus said that HE was the way, the truth and the life, and no man comes to the Father but by Him. Now if a Muslim never heard the gospel, then they would be judged according to the light given them. But Islam is a false religion, Allah actually was a moon god. Mohammad brought the tribes together who all worshipped different gods, Romans says, that they turned from the one true God and worshipped other gods, so he gave them over to it. The Bible says there is no other name (but Jesus) given us for salvation. Jesus said believe in, trust in what HE did (died for our sins) for salvation. That is all.

 

[Popeyesays]

Jesus did say He was the way, the truth and the life, but He never spoke of Moses as NOT being the way, the truth and the life, now did He? He had every opportunity, yet he came to fulfill the law not to change it.In my faith we are told, that in Their station of divine unity the Prophets are all the same sould and the same voice, even though they appear in different places and different times. Therefore one can call Them all by the same name and not be wrong.Therefore Muhammad is Jesus in this very basic spiritual reference.As to you continuing misconception that Allah is a "moon god". That's piffle. It only makes you look ignorant to insist it's true. Arabic=AllahHebrew=ElohimThe same root word in both languages. To insis on this ridiculous position only makes all your other more important positions look equally frivolous.Regards,Scott"

 

[Mercy Not Sacrifice]

Good point - unfortunately.

If only the whole world could learn to be objective, to be understanding, and - above all - to "Live and let live"

No kidding. Unfortunately, humans have a strange tendency to practice none of the above.

 

[joeboonda]

Jesus did say He was the way, the truth and the life, but He never spoke of Moses as NOT being the way, the truth and the life, now did He? He had every opportunity, yet he came to fulfill the law not to change it.In my faith we are told, that in Their station of divine unity the Prophets are all the same sould and the same voice, even though they appear in different places and different times. Therefore one can call Them all by the same name and not be wrong.Therefore Muhammad is Jesus in this very basic spiritual reference.As to you continuing misconception that Allah is a "moon god". That's piffle. It only makes you look ignorant to insist it's true. Arabic=AllahHebrew=ElohimThe same root word in both languages. To insis on this ridiculous position only makes all your other more important positions look equally frivolous.Regards,Scott"

I will NEVER EVER diminish the KIng of Kings and Lord of Lords, the Only Begotten Son of God, the Saviour of the World, the Lamb of God who taketh away the sin of the world, by equating Him with other prophets, and especially not Mohammad, no way, no how.

Here are some links that show Allah IS the moon god, and did NOT come from ancient Judaism:

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/skm30804.htm
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/islam.htm