Allergies and Other Proofs Against God

[richardlowellt]

Again, you have not proven that Peter Pan does not exist.
You have merely offered up an alternative without proving anything.

Same with your "God does not exist" argument.
You have not proven anything other than there are alternatives to the "God did it" answer.

There being alternatives does not not disprove the existence of God.
In fact, merely because there are explanations other that "God did it" does not even prove that God didn't do it.

Foolish reasoning indeed, your trying to make your point by saying there is a possibility of peter pan existing, and that never never land may well be. Does an intelligent human really have to prove that superman, peter pan, plastic man, Rodan, and a host of other doesn't exist? Is not reason and logic enough to show they are non-existent? I think it is.

 

[McBell]

Foolish reasoning indeed, your trying to make your point by saying there is a possibility of peter pan existing, and that never never land may well be. Does an intelligent human really have to prove that superman, peter pan, plastic man, Rodan, and a host of other doesn't exist? Is not reason and logic enough to show they are non-existent? I think it is.

No more foolish than your attempt to claim that alternative explanations prove other explanations false.

How exactly does this work again...?
For if every explanation proves all the other explanations false then what do you have left?

You merely pick your favourite, right?
Then claim that no other explanation is needed and thus you have proven that your favourite explanation is the one true explanation.

And I am the one accused of circular reasoning?
The mind boggles...

 

[richardlowellt]

not just someone, a member of the Godhead revealed it to me. The Holy Spirit, not a book, taught me about the plan of salvation. You know how the Bible talks about heavenly messangers coming down and revealing things to people? That still happens. I know, because it happened to me.

Well I guess I am glad for you. What if I told you he fish Gods from Neptune came to me in the night and showed me a sacred book that revealed that they were the creators of all that exists, that any other Gods claim was faults, and that I should spend the rest of my life convincing all of humanity that they are the true Gods. What would your reaction be?

 

[richardlowellt]

They were wrong. I don't know where they get the something from nothing idea, it is not in the Bible. The Bible teaches us that God is forming what eternally exists.

Well of course it's in the bible, did not God create the earth in 7 days? Did he not create something on each one of these 7 days? Since he created all then there was nothing before he began.

 

[richardlowellt]

Tell me the origin of the natural laws, and then I will think that God was not needed.

There are two answers to this question, one, if we assume the cosmos has always existed then those natural laws would be apart of the cosmos, the second part is what has already be brought to your attention, you must account for the origin of God, if you say he has always existed, then your premise is no different that mine.

 

[richardlowellt]

No more foolish than your attempt to claim that alternative explanations prove other explanations false.

How exactly does this work again...?
For if every explanation proves all the other explanations false then what do you have left?

You merely pick your favourite, right?
Then claim that no other explanation is needed and thus you have proven that your favourite explanation is the one true explanation.

And I am the one accused of circular reasoning?
The mind boggles...

Alternative explanations are only part of what forms reason and logic, kind of helps it along. I need no alternative explanation to KNOW that peter pan does not exist. I know because, he actions would suspend the laws of nature, flying, that never never land is suppose to exist out among the stars, again suspending the laws of nature as humans cannot exist in the cold and vacuum of space without life support, see how reason and logic work. I this instance I don't even need to provide an alternative explanation. I can do the same with superman, plastic man, and a host of others, let me know if you need me to guide you along the path of reason and logic, I'll be glad to help you out.

 

[McBell]

let me know if you need me to guide you along the path of reason and logic, I'll be glad to help you out.

No offense, but if this is an example of how you use logic and reasoning, I am not interested in stepping backwards.

Thanks anyway.

 

[ThereIsNoSpoon]

It is my contention that no deity in his/her right mind would torture people thus.

Well a contention is not a proof.
There are so many gaps in your attempt that one could fill a page or two with a text concerning alteratives.

Anyway ...

Generally things aren't disprooven anyway. Things must be prooven or one shouldnt start taking them for granted in the first place.

 

[richardlowellt]

No offense, but if this is an example of how you use logic and reasoning, I am not interested in stepping backwards.

Thanks anyway.

So from this reply I take it reason and logic are not enough to convince you that people cannot fly even when pixie dust is sprinkled on them, and you don't think that reason and logic are enough to convince you that people without life support can exist in the cold and vacuum of outer space. Very good, I have land available, cheap, nice plots, there in never never land, interested?

 

[McBell]

So from this reply I take it reason and logic are not enough to convince you that people cannot fly even when pixie dust is sprinkled on them, and you don't think that reason and logic are enough to convince you that people without life support can exist in the cold and vacuum of outer space. Very good, I have land available, cheap, nice plots, there in never never land, interested?

From this post I will infer that you are not wanting to further discuss the original topic but instead wish to concentrate on your strawman.

By all means, continue with your strawman.
Just do not expect me to follow you down that yellow bricked road.

 

[richardlowellt]

From this post I will infer that you are not wanting to further discuss the original topic but instead wish to concentrate on your strawman.

By all means, continue with your strawman.
Just do not expect me to follow you down that yellow bricked road.

No, I thought not!

 

[McBell]

No, I thought not!

Yes, I know you did not think.
Seems that is a big part of why you cannot fathom that your logic is faulty.

 

[richardlowellt]

Yes, I know you did not think.
Seems that is a big part of why you cannot fathom that your logic is faulty.

My logic tells me people cant fly around the room when a fairy sprinkles pixie dust on them, apparently yours does not. I think I'll keep my "faulty" logic it will keep me from having foolish expectations.

BTW I thought you were done!!!

 

[idea]

Well I guess I am glad for you. What if I told you he fish Gods from Neptune came to me in the night and showed me a sacred book that revealed that they were the creators of all that exists, that any other Gods claim was faults, and that I should spend the rest of my life convincing all of humanity that they are the true Gods. What would your reaction be?

Because of my personal experiences, I would not believe you.
That said, I do not think that LDS hold monopoly on manifestations. I recieved my first experience before I was a member of the LDS church.
The gift of discernment of Spirits is also needed.

 

[idea]

Tell me the origin of God, and then I will think that God^2 was not needed.

there is no origin for any of it.

 

[idea]

Well of course it's in the bible, did not God create the earth in 7 days? Did he not create something on each one of these 7 days? Since he created all then there was nothing before he began.

God transformed what eternally exists, He did not create out of nothingness.

The Hebrew word translated as "create" in the Bible would be better translated as "transform"
Hebrew Word Studies
"The English word "create" is an abstract word and a foriegn concept to the Hebrews."

 

[idea]

if you say he has always existed, then your premise is no different that mine.

Everything has always existed in one form or another.
The difference between my premise and yours is I don't limit the upper bounds of life.
That something as complex as all of the physical laws macro to micro quantum exists proves that complexity did not have to evolve. Occam's razor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
the simplest solution is that complex life has always existed.
COSMIC ANCESTRY: The modern version of panspermia. by Brig Klyce

 

[idea]

Alternative explanations are only part of what forms reason and logic, kind of helps it along. I need no alternative explanation to KNOW that peter pan does not exist. I know because, he actions would suspend the laws of nature, flying, that never never land is suppose to exist out among the stars, again suspending the laws of nature as humans cannot exist in the cold and vacuum of space without life support, see how reason and logic work. I this instance I don't even need to provide an alternative explanation. I can do the same with superman, plastic man, and a host of others, let me know if you need me to guide you along the path of reason and logic, I'll be glad to help you out.

many people live with thoughts of cannot, go gainst the laws of nature, can't, will never, impossible, etc. etc...
other people live with a different life philosophy.
The sky is not the limit...
That archer's arrow only flies as high as he aims.

There is a fellow named Peter, who is able to take us by the hand to pearly gates, and bids us enter into a land of wonder and awe. Most stories have an element of truth in them.

written by Edgar Guest, in a book called "The Tunnel Thru the Air."


"The Thing that Couldn't Be Done"

Somebody said that it couldn't be done,
but he, with a chuckle replied
That maybe it couldn't but he would be one
Who wouldn't say so till he tried.
So, he buckled right in with a trace of a grin
on his face. If he worried he hid it,
He started to sing as he tackled the thing
That couldn't be done and he did it.

Somebody scoffed: "Oh, you'll never do that:
At least it has never been done,"
But he took off his coat and he took off his hat,
And the first thing we knew he'd begun it,
With the lift of his chin and a bit of a grin
Without any doubting or quiddit,
He started to sing as he tackled the thing
That couldn't be done and he did it.

There are thousands to tell you it cannot be done,
There are thousands to prophesy failure;
There are thousands to point out to you, one by one,
The dangers that wait to assail you.
But just buckle in with a bit of a grin
Then take off your coat and go to it;
Just start in to sing as you tackle the thing
that cannot be done and you'll do it.

 

[Falvlun]

My logic tells me people cant fly around the room when a fairy sprinkles pixie dust on them, apparently yours does not. I think I'll keep my "faulty" logic it will keep me from having foolish expectations.

BTW I thought you were done!!!

You really don't get it, do you?

Let's try an example:
I have a tree in my yard. Either it got there because someone planted it, or a seed blew there and it planted itself naturally. I know about science, so I know that seeds can plant themselves. I also never saw someone plant that particular tree. I decide that the tree planted itself.

Does this in anyway logically disprove the possible existence of the Planter?

 

[richardlowellt]

You really don't get it, do you?

Let's try an example:
I have a tree in my yard. Either it got there because someone planted it, or a seed blew there and it planted itself naturally. I know about science, so I know that seeds can plant themselves. I also never saw someone plant that particular tree. I decide that the tree planted itself.

Does this in anyway logically disprove the possible existence of the Planter?

No I really don't think you get it. The someone who may have planted the tree is REAL, I know about the planter, I have seen one, spoken to one, I know planters are real, so even though I never saw the planter plant the tree, the fact that he could have is a very real possibility to me. That was a flop on your part, care to try another example?