Alone forever

[Wherenextcolumbus]

I believe that there is no conscious existence in death. (Eccl 9:5,6,10) It makes God's love into a joke to think that he would turn the gift of life into a living curse.

There is everlasting life, granted to the righteous, and everlasting death for the wicked. Nothing more than that...why does there need to be?

When you are indoctrinated with the idea that we have an immortal soul, all sorts of horrible scenarios come out of vivid misinterpretation of scripture.

Souls die. (Ezek18:4) They do not go anywhere except to sleep in the grave. (John 11:11)
All have paid sin's wages and will be resurrected, both the righteous and the unrighteous. (John 5;28,29) The righteous have been granted life because they remained faithful, but the unrighteous will be on judgment to prove that they can bring their lives into harmony with God's will. Those who refuse to obey will die a "second death" from which no one returns.

It makes a mockery of God's justice to believe that he would torture people in eternal suffering for a short lifetime of sin. (especially when we are born in sin to start with)

Everlasting life is granted only to the righteous; wouldn't God have to grant everlasting life also to the wicked in order to punish them forever?

Isn't punishment given in order to chastise so that repentence can take place? What possible reason could a loving and just God have for being unloving and unjust? This whole scenario makes God out to be a cruel fiend!

I also believe in everlasting death which is also why I dont believe in leaving anything to Jehovah to sort out, when the wicked like you said won't really be punished but simply die.

 

[Riverwolf]

And hence 'I' don't believe the bond of spirit and body to be undeniable.
I believe we can break free.

In that hour only one desire awaits.....to stand up.
I suggest we go with it.

And if we don't, there won't be any awareness, and thus no knowledge of being alone.

That can hardly be compared to the first episode of the original Twilight Zone.

 

[adi2d]

Being alone for eternity would be hell. But being with someone else for eternity would also be hell.

I have a hard time with this' eternal' concept
If we are saved we get to eternally worship God. Can you imagine that? I would think that would get old after a few hundred thousand years. After a hundred billion years even God might want us to shut up.
How can ANYTHING be good forever?

 

[fantome profane]

I have a hard time with this' eternal' concept
If we are saved we get to eternally worship God. Can you imagine that? I would think that would get old after a few hundred thousand years. After a hundred billion years even God might want us to shut up.
How can ANYTHING be good forever?

Exactly my feeling on the subject. A lot of people talk about eternity, but I think few have really thought about it. If there is a choice, I would rather not experience eternity under any conditions.

 

[Looncall]

Can anyone imagine or would anyone want to be completely alone for eternity?



I believe the scriptures indicate that separation from God is the eternal destiny of anyone who refuses to admit or give up sin and according to the scriptures everyone is guilty of sin. Various descriptions are used to portray what the condition of separation will be like, such as; outer darkness, weeping and gnashing of teeth or burning fire. The Bible also says God is Love. He is the source of love and without His presence I believe love is nonexistent. So my understanding is that being separated from God and His love will also mean being separated from everyone else because love which now connects people together would no longer be active in the state of being separated from God.

On the other hand, maybe all this morbid guilt is just a scam cooked up to benefit the clergy; to keep the pews and collection plates full.

 

[InChrist]

On the other hand, maybe all this morbid guilt is just a scam cooked up to benefit the clergy; to keep the pews and collection plates full.

Except anyone can read the scriptures on their own and see what they say related to one's eternal destiny and take care of it directly with God, without ever sitting in a pew, dropping anything in a collection plate, having guilt trips or any other input at all from clergy.

 

[McBell]

Except anyone can read the scriptures on their own and see what they say related to one's eternal destiny and take care of it directly with God, without ever sitting in a pew, dropping anything in a collection plate, having guilt trips or any other input at all from clergy.

They can now.
Not so much back in the day.

 

[InChrist]

They can now.
Not so much back in the day.

What day?

 

[Looncall]

Except anyone can read the scriptures on their own and see what they say related to one's eternal destiny and take care of it directly with God, without ever sitting in a pew, dropping anything in a collection plate, having guilt trips or any other input at all from clergy.

You are assuming the scam is recent. It seems clear to me that it is ancient and involved in the writing of the bible. Indeed, I suppose that the first tribesman who found that he could escape the daily grind of survival by pretending to talk to gods saw right away that he was onto a good thing.

After that, it got institutionalized and kept on rolling along.

 

[Ingledsva]

You are assuming the scam is recent. It seems clear to me that it is ancient and involved in the writing of the bible. Indeed, I suppose that the first tribesman who found that he could escape the daily grind of survival by pretending to talk to gods saw right away that he was onto a good thing.

After that, it got institutionalized and kept on rolling along.

Plus, they forget that even the Hebrew used drugs to experience, and get messages from, God.

And a lot of the Bible is just patriarchal self gifting, - own women - own sex slaves and concubines - permission to rape war prisoners - permission to kill anyone that doesn't tow THEIR line, and to take the land of those people, etc.

*

 

[Riverwolf]

You are assuming the scam is recent. It seems clear to me that it is ancient and involved in the writing of the bible. Indeed, I suppose that the first tribesman who found that he could escape the daily grind of survival by pretending to talk to gods saw right away that he was onto a good thing.

After that, it got institutionalized and kept on rolling along.

That's not how religion was formed, nor how early religion functioned.

If anything, compared to how long our species has been practicing sophisticated religion, the scam aspect is actually quite recent, with Rome and similar empires incorporating religion into their politics of control and "When-In-Rome..."-ness.

Before that, as far as I can see, what God you prayed to didn't matter a whole lot(at least in Europe).

I will point out, however, that the pre-Islamic Persian Empire practiced freedom of religion.

 

[Penumbra]

Can anyone imagine or would anyone want to be completely alone for eternity?

I believe the scriptures indicate that separation from God is the eternal destiny of anyone who refuses to admit or give up sin and according to the scriptures everyone is guilty of sin. Various descriptions are used to portray what the condition of separation will be like, such as; outer darkness, weeping and gnashing of teeth or burning fire. The Bible also says God is Love. He is the source of love and without His presence I believe love is nonexistent. So my understanding is that being separated from God and His love will also mean being separated from everyone else because love which now connects people together would no longer be active in the state of being separated from God.

Can anyone imagine or would anyone want to imagine the kind of being that would create a universe where people end up alone for eternity?

And the devil failed.

In your religion do more people end up united with your deity or alone forever?

 

[Thief]

Can anyone imagine or would anyone want to imagine the kind of being that would create a universe where people end up alone for eternity?


In your religion do more people end up united with your deity or alone forever?

I can imagine a Deity existing at great length, and with great patience seeking out and selecting a place of potential chemistry (Garden).

And then in relatively short span of events....
stir the chemistry just right....and presto!....as if by magic.....Man!

 

[9Westy9]

I can imagine a Deity existing at great length, and with great patience seeking out and selecting a place of potential chemistry (Garden).

And then in relatively short span of events....
stir the chemistry just right....and presto!....as if by magic.....Man!

 

[Thief]

My previous post was an extremely condensed version of Genesis.

 

[Falvlun]

That's not how religion was formed, nor how early religion functioned.

If anything, compared to how long our species has been practicing sophisticated religion, the scam aspect is actually quite recent, with Rome and similar empires incorporating religion into their politics of control and "When-In-Rome..."-ness.

Before that, as far as I can see, what God you prayed to didn't matter a whole lot(at least in Europe).

I will point out, however, that the pre-Islamic Persian Empire practiced freedom of religion.

In the Bible it talks of the Israelites killing other tribes because of their false gods. There was definitely religious rivalry.

There are many good things about religion, but I think at its base it is a motivator and it is power. Motivation and power can swing both ways.

 

[Penumbra]

I can imagine a Deity existing at great length, and with great patience seeking out and selecting a place of potential chemistry (Garden).

And then in relatively short span of events....
stir the chemistry just right....and presto!....as if by magic.....Man!

Sounds like a human imagining what a human would do if he were god while retaining a human mind.

Things like emotions, goals, tradeoffs, lack of omniscience, limited benevolence, etc.

 

[McBell]

Sounds like a human imagining what a human would do if he were god while retaining a human mind.

Things like emotions, goals, tradeoffs, lack of omniscience, limited benevolence, etc.

Shhhh...
Don't ruin it for him

 

[Thief]

Sounds like a human imagining what a human would do if he were god while retaining a human mind.

Things like emotions, goals, tradeoffs, lack of omniscience, limited benevolence, etc.

More like a Deity that realizes....'self'....and then declares....'I AM!'

Being First in mind and heart is likely difficult....with no response at hand.

 

[Sunstone]

That's not how religion was formed, nor how early religion functioned.

If you go back 5,500 years to the dawn of the first state societies in ancient Sumer, you will find religion is already being used to support and justify a class of political and social elites. (Albeit, if you go back before that -- to the religions of hunting gatherers -- it seems likely you would not find the same incestuous relationship between religious and political power.) Moreover, of all the early state societies, including the Andean, and Meso-American societies, perhaps only the Indus Valley civilization was without a priestly class supporting a political and social elite. But that's just a "perhaps". Far more likely, we just haven't found the temples yet, in my opinion.