am i going to hell

[Shermana]

I remember that discussion, that it means simply to bow down. So in the case of Joshua bowing down to the Lord of the Host of Gods Army (who is that btw?), is it the same as when John wanted to bow down to the angel in revelations?

Yes, which brings up an interesting point. Many people say that the episode in Revelation means only God should be worshiped. Now this presents a major glaring problem, and they usually jump ship when this is pointed out.

The way to reconcile it is to look at two things:

1. Why would John, the extremely pious, highly educated Jew, have such a momentary lapse and bow falsely?

2. Why would the Angel reveal they are both prophets? The Angels is saying he's of the same rank.

Thus, the Angels is saying "Hey, you're of equal rank to me even in the Angelic world, you're a special case, so you only have to bow down to God here".

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

Yes, which brings up an interesting point. Many people say that the episode in Revelation means only God should be worshiped. Now this presents a major glaring problem, and they usually jump ship when this is pointed out.

The way to reconcile it is to look at two things:

1. Why would John, the extremely pious, highly educated Jew, have such a momentary lapse and bow falsely?

2. Why would the Angel reveal they are both prophets? The Angels is saying he's of the same rank.

Thus, the Angels is saying "Hey, you're of equal rank to me even in the Angelic world, you're a special case, so you only have to bow down to God here".

Which is odd, when going into Rank, because it ignores something said in Genesis. People like to look at the line "ye are Sons of Gods" and say that it didn't have much backing or meaning behind it or it was metaphorical ignoring this line in Genesis:
The Lord God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. 22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil.

Why say one of us, if man was such a lowly creature? Indeed it seems the only separation is the ability to die.

 

[thau]

What do you consider a false religion?

All New Age religions are false. All Eastern religions. All tribal, animist and ancient religions such as Roman and Greek are false. Islam, for all intents and purposes, is false. Any religion that prays to or believes in a god that does not exist. And any religion that believes in concepts that do not exist like reincarnation or mother earth. But as I noted: if the follower is ignorant of their error and ignorant of the truths of Christianity, I do not see them destined for the nether world. Purgatory is not only for those who need to be purified, but also those who need to learn of the love of God and Jesus and so on.

I really think the “false idols” so noted in the First Commandment has more to do with those of us who consider ourselves believers but spend all of our time on things of this world and give God nary a glance. Our idols are our selfish pleasures.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

All New Age religions are false. All Eastern religions. All tribal, animist and ancient religions such as Roman and Greek are false. Islam, for all intents and purposes, is false. Any religion that prays to or believes in a god that does not exist. And any religion that believes in concepts that do not exist like reincarnation or mother earth. But as I noted: if the follower is ignorant of their error and ignorant of the truths of Christianity, I do not see them destined for the nether world. Purgatory is not only for those who need to be purified, but also those who need to learn of the love of God and Jesus and so on.

I really think the “false idols” so noted in the First Commandment has more to do with those of us who consider ourselves believers but spend all of our time on things of this world and give God nary a glance. Our idols are our selfish pleasures.

And what proof do you have that they are false? What evidence are you operating under?

 

[Pastek]

Just curious as to wether the followers of abrahamic religions here believe Buddhists are worshipping FALSE idols and are hellbound.

I will respect any thoughts either way, as long as your truthfull I will respect that.

If yes please elaborate.

To me Buddha was a teacher not a god, someone who's teachings I attempt to emulate to better myself.

I believe jesus was a man,with a philosophy,a peaceful man but not a god or the son of.

I neither believe nor disbelieve in god as I am yet to see him.

believe only what makes sense to you, not just what we are told to be,including buddhas words.

In Islam you have to believe in God and never give him a partner (in worship or the creation ). That's the most important point to avoid hell.

 

[thau]

And what proof do you have that they are false? What evidence are you operating under?

Well it should be obvious. I am operating under the claim that the evidence and reason for the existence of the Judeo-Christian God is beyond doubt. And given that premise, the only way the Judeo-Christian God can be true is for all others to be total fabrications.

Now if you are going to ask for this evidence I am going to say I do not have the time. I am tired of presenting it in many different ways, historical, empirical, reasoned, and sheer volume. But as long as adversaries and doubters come up with nothing more than the most lame of possibilities to try to explain away a multitude of supernatural manifestations, well they are basically telling me, personally, they have no rebuttal, which all the more convinces me we are right.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

Well it should be obvious. I am operating under the claim that the evidence and reason for the existence of the Judeo-Christian God is beyond doubt. And given that premise, the only way the Judeo-Christian God can be true is for all others to be total fabrications.

Now if you are going to ask for this evidence I am going to say I do not have the time. I am tired of presenting it in many different ways, historical, empirical, reasoned, and sheer volume. But as long as adversaries and doubters come up with nothing more than the most lame of possibilities to try to explain away a multitude of supernatural manifestations, well they are basically telling me, personally, they have no rebuttal, which all the more convinces me we are right.

But Judaism does not agree with Christianity. Actually the only relationship between the two is that Christianity started as a Jewish sect. There was soon quite a huge division between them.

Now I can understanding the reasoning (experiences personal to you are valid), However I'm not to sure on what empirical/and supernatural manifestations that have existed.

The reasoning works because it's your own personal experience, but what supernatural or empirical evidence have you been exposed too if you don't mind my asking?

 

[rusra02]

Just curious as to wether the followers of abrahamic religions here believe Buddhists are worshipping FALSE idols and are hellbound.

I will respect any thoughts either way, as long as your truthfull I will respect that.

If yes please elaborate.

The Bible "hell" is simply the grave, so I think all of us our hell bound, in a sense. (Ecclesiastes 9:5,10) as to worship of ANY idols, the Bible is very clear that this displeases the true God, Jehovah. (1Corinthians 10:19-22, Exodus 20:4,5)

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I've got a question: Does it bother you that someone believes you are going to "hell"? If so, why?

Speaking for myself, if a person:

- believes that God is perfect, and
- believes that God will torture me forever

... then it stands to reason that he thinks it would be perfect for me to be tortured forever. If a person feels that way about me, it could affect their behaviour toward me regardless of whether Hell is real or not.

 

[thau]

Speaking for myself, if a person:

- believes that God is perfect, and
- believes that God will torture me forever

... then it stands to reason that he thinks it would be perfect for me to be tortured forever. If a person feels that way about me, it could affect their behaviour toward me regardless of whether Hell is real or not.

What person (read: Christian) could ever dutifully believe that you deserve to go to hell and be tortured forever? Where are we allowed that line of judgment or attitude? Yes, we believe in hell, and we are allowed to believe some may end up there. But never to suggest who deserves it.

CS Lewis book "The Great Divorce" has the best speculations as to why there needs to be a hell. It is in the later chapters of this short book. It stands to reason as far as I am concerned. Essentially it says something like (poorly paraphrased) "heaven is pure light and pure holiness. Nothing defiled in the slightest can ever be allowed to tarnish the sacred in any way. Those in hell are there because they steadfastly refuse to give up the attitudes or vices which cast them there in the first place. So long as they refuse to give something up they in themselves are keeping them from ever returning."

The book does a better job of it.

 

[Shia Islam]

Just curious as to wether the followers of abrahamic religions here believe Buddhists are worshipping FALSE idols and are hellbound.

I will respect any thoughts either way, as long as your truthfull I will respect that.

If yes please elaborate.

God have blessed you with your intellect...
ask yourself: are these Idols deserve to be worshiped...
If the answer is no. then why are you worshiping them?

 

[ChristineES]

Speaking for myself, if a person:

- believes that God is perfect, and
- believes that God will torture me forever

... then it stands to reason that he thinks it would be perfect for me to be tortured forever. If a person feels that way about me, it could affect their behaviour toward me regardless of whether Hell is real or not.

Truthfully, most of the Christians I've dealt with don't really like the idea of anyone going to hell, even if they believe in hell.

On top of that, a person who does relish the idea of someone suffering what they believe will be forever, wouldn't even be worth my time.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

What person (read: Christian) could ever dutifully believe that you deserve to go to hell and be tortured forever? Where are we allowed that line of judgment or attitude? Yes, we believe in hell, and we are allowed to believe some may end up there. But never to suggest who deserves it.

I don't see how it would be avoidable, since the alternative would be to allow for the possibility that the punishment is undeserved, which would imply that God was unjust.

If you're sure that God is perfectly just, then you necessarily must be sure that any punishment given by God is deserved. To think otherwise would be to undermine that original premise that God is just.

CS Lewis book "The Great Divorce" has the best speculations as to why there needs to be a hell. It is in the later chapters of this short book. It stands to reason as far as I am concerned. Essentially it says something like (poorly paraphrased) "heaven is pure light and pure holiness. Nothing defiled in the slightest can ever be allowed to tarnish the sacred in any way. Those in hell are there because they steadfastly refuse to give up the attitudes or vices which cast them there in the first place. So long as they refuse to give something up they in themselves are keeping them from ever returning."

The book does a better job of it.

I've yet to see an argument from C.S. Lewis that I even considered reasonable, to say nothing of being logically valid. This holds true for your argument here.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

The question is what does Hell resolve?

If it's not rehabilitation it is punishment, but how do you punish for eternity for something that was committed finite? And what exactly is being punished? The Soul? The Flesh? If the Flesh is the cause of sin (inherited by Adam), then why is the soul punished? At what point was the soul created then?

Was it created by God? If so why not just leave it in heaven? There are over 10,000 eggs and 500,000,000 sperm created by humans, all these give a possibility of being a person. When did they get their souls? When it was united? What about those that unite but end up being aborted? Where do they fall in the soul category?

I guess the point is that to say there is a hell, you have to at first define what is being punished. The flesh or the soul? If the Soul is from God how is it corruptible if it is the flesh why must the soul ask for forgiveness.

Then you have to start adding what we have learn about the human brain/mind dynamic. If our feelings, actions can be attributed to the brain (in some way shape or form), where does the spirit play a role?

 

[#H.E.B.Knowledge]

Yes, you are. The bible says:









If you aren't for Jesus, you are against Jesus. If you are against Jesus, you are damned and won't have eternal life.

But what makes that right? Why is it that Christians can worship Jesus, a man who also refers to himself as "The Son of Man" instead of "The Son of God", but every other religion are worshipping false idols? Why is it in Christianity they have removed God out the way and stated that the only way to see His Kingdom is through Christ (a man)? I don't undestand why we try to glorify the "biblical" God that will send His own children to be eternally tortured for not believing in ONE of His children. The bible states that Jesus is a child with many brothers and sisters. But if one of his brothers or sisters fail to realize that he is their savior, then God will punish them. Now, picture what will happen if someone today decided to torture their child because they were disobedient. I wouldn't think they would be glorified at all.

 

[Krill The Unwashed]

ask yourself: are these Idols deserve to be worshiped...
If the answer is no. then why are you worshiping them?

A matter of perspective...

Most Buddhists do not worship idols, let alone a creator god.

Let me ask you a question, since you brought up idol worship:

What is the difference between an objective physical idol, and an ideated idol. By "ideated," I mean "ideation," a "construct of the mind." An ideated idol is an idea you have constructed in your subjective mind.

When, a person looks at the statue of Liberty for example, that statue evokes in the person's subjective mind a mental imprint or mental ideation. The same happens when for example a Hindu performs puja to a statue of Shiva. The statue itself evokes in the subjective mind a sacred feeling, an imprint/impression of the divine presence of Shiva. It is this inner impression that is venerated...

Since Allah exists in your mind as a belief/conceptualization/ideation... since the idea or conceptualization of Allah is an imprint/impression in your mind, and since you worship this idea-idol, what makes you not an "idolator?" The means to your idolatry may be different. The "Hindu" may use a statue to evoke an impression of the Divine Presence, whereas you may use the Qur'an to evoke the same divine presence inside your heart and mind. But once the divine presence has been evoked, it is the same mental/subjective apprehension.

So what makes you not a worshiper of an idea, an ideal, and idea-idol of your mind?

 

[thau]

I don't see how it would be avoidable, since the alternative would be to allow for the possibility that the punishment is undeserved, which would imply that God was unjust.

If you're sure that God is perfectly just, then you necessarily must be sure that any punishment given by God is deserved. To think otherwise would be to undermine that original premise that God is just.

I've yet to see an argument from C.S. Lewis that I even considered reasonable, to say nothing of being logically valid. This holds true for your argument here.

You said earlier...

[ if a person:
- believes that God is perfect, and
- believes that God will torture me forever
.. then it stands to reason that he thinks it would be perfect for me to be tortured forever.]

First of all, who is defining 'perfect' here? Perfect does not mean that everything God willed or desired has come to be. Free will of man trumps God's will. So, no, we do not wish you to be tortured just because the justice of the heavenlies so must ordain it.

Is this sentence from God deserved you ask us? I guess so. If God thinks it is or must be, then I think your free will was allowed to be the deciding factor.


Question: If God showed you heaven and all its infinite glory and then put you back on earth and then said you have a choice: Refrain from engaging in any contact with all these beautiful women, refrain from eating any of this rich food but only crusts of bread, and pray to me for two solid weeks. If you do all this for two weeks I will grant you all that I have shown you.

Would that be a fair offer I ask? Why not?... is it asking too much of you?

But if you KNEW this and still decided you could not refrain and indulged, and then God denied you heaven as a result --- question: Would you blame God for your being denied, yes or no?

 

[sojourner]

Hell is a place pretty much due south of Paradise.

Is it?

 

[Shermana]

Which is odd, when going into Rank, because it ignores something said in Genesis. People like to look at the line "ye are Sons of Gods" and say that it didn't have much backing or meaning behind it or it was metaphorical ignoring this line in Genesis:
The Lord God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. 22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil.

Why say one of us, if man was such a lowly creature? Indeed it seems the only separation is the ability to die.

This is a fascinating topic which is beyond the scope of this thread that I would love to discuss in an appropriate place.

 

[FranklinMichaelV.3]

This is a fascinating topic which is beyond the scope of this thread that I would love to discuss in an appropriate place.

Make it and I will gladly discuss it with you. It's one of the three times (That I can remember off the top of my head), that God uses the Term Us. Many consider it to be referring to angels, but we already know that Angels are not the same as the US being used in that terminology, given the description given to the guards of the tree of life.