An execution of wounded by Israeli soldier !

[Godobeyer]

If someone disagrees with you, are they incredibly stupid automatically?

No , except if the idea is stupid .

 

[Flankerl]

 

[Aquitaine]

Yes incredibly stupid opinion and even a dirty one, the soldier shot him in a cold blood, no signs of fear from a suicide
bomb at the time of shooting.

I feel sorry indeed that you're an educated person and i'm wasting time with you and with the others.

For you we can judge without proper investigation and just kill innocent people, don't blame the terrorists then.

"Kill innocent people"? He was a knife-wielding attacker. Oh wait, he's muslim so of course you cannot criticize his actions. . .

 

[Kirran]

Israeli source (to support their claim) !!!

This is neutral one :
http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=51826#.VwJP_pyLRxA

Read your own sources: "Area C is home to some 300,000 Palestinians and 77 per cent of the demolition orders affect structures located on privately-owned Palestinian land." That 77% figure means that actually there was demolition of structures which were not on Palestinian land i.e. Israeli land. As there are far more Palestinians than Israelis in this area, it stands to reason that a lot of more of their structures will be demolished than Israelis', but your own source shows that it isn't exclusive.

In any case, it's not relevant to what we were actually discussing here which was in relation to Arab Israelis. Not to Palestinians in the West Bank.

Your evidence that Algeria kicked out the Jews ?

I have provided this. I have provided you sources showing that Algeria denied citizenship to Jews. I have provided you sources showing that they were stripped of their rights and had their properties confiscated.

Then yes , where is problem that Synagogues turned to mosque , or mosque turned to synagogues or church or to museum ?
II feel it's normal ,since there is no worshipers.
but there are , that oppression against minority .
I think if the Jews decide to recover their Algerian nationality , they have the right to recover their synagogues too.

This isn't what happened. This was when the Jews were still in Algeria, when they were still using their synagogues.

Please give me an evidence that Algeria expelled the Jews , and Libya
is really there massacres in Yemen and Iraq ?

Have provided for Algeria.

Libya - https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/jewref.html

In Yemen and Iraq, yes. In Iraq there was a pogrom called Farhud. http://www.aish.com/jw/me/48914692.html

Iraqi politicians openly admitted to wanting to drive the Jews out as fast as possible, including Nuri al-Said, the Prime Minister.

In Yemen rioters and Yemeni police carried out a pogrom in 1947 in Aden, killing plenty of Jews. This was why Operation Magic Carpet was carried out, to evacuate the Jews to safety in Israel.

While we're at it - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1945_Anti-Jewish_riots_in_Egypt

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1945_Anti-Jewish_riots_in_Tripolitania

Also, Jewish orphans were seized by the state in Yemen, converted to Islam and not allowed any connections to their families. http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/2.209...men-president-was-once-trainee-rabbi-1.255745

How about NOW ,the Jews whom lived in Tunisia and Moroco and Iran ?

Well they experience a lot of racism, but it has improved to some extent. They're still restricted from various areas of society, there's still institutional anti-Semitism. I have given you some information on that already in this thread.

By that map I provided alone you can see the degree of anti-Semitism in Middle Eastern societies.

 

[FearGod]

"Kill innocent people"? He was a knife-wielding attacker. Oh wait, he's muslim so of course you cannot criticize his actions. . .

Were you the investigator?

 

[Kirran]

I was once in a conversation with a Muslim chaplain in Manchester. He said that the Ummah meant that whenever a Muslim saw any other Muslim in the world suffering, like someone in Palestine, they immediately connected with them because they felt "That's my brother, that's my sister". At first glance, that sounds very positive. But actually, it isn't really, because by dint of saying that all Muslims are your brothers and sisters you are implicitly saying that all non-Muslims are not. That you care more about your co-religionists than others, and will therefore care for them more than for people of other faiths. That means that in a situation like the Israel-Palestine fiasco, it makes it a lot harder to actually accept that there are problems on both sides, that people on both sides are contributing to the violence.

 

[Kirran]

I feel confident you will soon accept their wonderful reasoning and switch over to opposing the Zionist conspiracy.

 

[Godobeyer]

Read your own sources: "Area C is home to some 300,000 Palestinians and 77 per cent of the demolition orders affect structures located on privately-owned Palestinian land." That 77% figure means that actually there was demolition of structures which were not on Palestinian land i.e. Israeli land. As there are far more Palestinians than Israelis in this area, it stands to reason that a lot of more of their structures will be demolished than Israelis', but your own source shows that it isn't exclusive.

Sorry but this is evil , do you mean it's ok that Israel demolish homes of West Bank is legal ?so they are slaves for Israel or what , so Israel could did whatever they want ?

They are Arabs under Jewish occupation, The Jews whom demolishing Arab homes , is that clear?

Jimmy Carter unveils truth about Israel

In any case, it's not relevant to what we were actually discussing here which was in relation to Arab Israelis. Not to Palestinians in the West Bank.

Please watch

or http://icahd.org/

I have provided this. I have provided you sources showing that Algeria denied citizenship to Jews. I have provided you sources showing that they were stripped of their rights and had their properties confiscated.

I have no reason to believe that Algeria deny the citizenship to Jews ,you have no evidence that Algeria kicked the Jews.

This isn't what happened. This was when the Jews were still in Algeria, when they were still using their synagogues.

They could recover the Algerian Nationality by law. so they recover they synagogues.

Have provided for Algeria.

Libya - https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/jewref.html


In Yemen and Iraq, yes. In Iraq there was a pogrom called Farhud. http://www.aish.com/jw/me/48914692.html

Iraqi politicians openly admitted to wanting to drive the Jews out as fast as possible, including Nuri al-Said, the Prime Minister.

In Yemen rioters and Yemeni police carried out a pogrom in 1947 in Aden, killing plenty of Jews. This was why Operation Magic Carpet was carried out, to evacuate the Jews to safety in Israel.

While we're at it - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1945_Anti-Jewish_riots_in_Egypt

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1945_Anti-Jewish_riots_in_Tripolitania

Also, Jewish orphans were seized by the state in Yemen, converted to Islam and not allowed any connections to their families. http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/2.209...men-president-was-once-trainee-rabbi-1.255745

You used Jewish sources to support their view !!

there is massacre called Sabra wa Shatila (hunderds of Arabs murders) do you heard about it ?

Well they experience a lot of racism, but it has improved to some extent. They're still restricted from various areas of society, there's still institutional anti-Semitism. I have given you some information on that already in this thread.

By that map I provided alone you can see the degree of anti-Semitism in Middle Eastern societies

Whatever , that's will not reach plans of demolish homes or dailly killing as Israel doing to Arabs . Now .

I just Imagine if Moroco or Tunisia or Iran treat the Jews , as Israel treat the Arabs , what you will say ?

 

[Flankerl]

I love how Godobeyer speaks about Jews in Islamic countries as if they still exist in any significant number.

Quite hilarious.

 

[Kirran]

Sorry but this is evil , do you mean it's ok that Israel demolish homes of West Bank is legal ?so they are slaves for Israel or what , so Israel could did whatever they want ?

They are Arabs under Jewish occupation, The Jews whom demolishing Arab homes , is that clear?

Perhaps you've misunderstood me.

Look, when you want to build a house, or a mosque or a shop or whatever, you have to apply to the local government for permission to do so, right? And if you build a house but you didn't get permission, then the government can demolish the house. In Israel, including Israel-administered territories in the West Bank, this applies to Jews and to Arabs. So if a Jew or an Arab builds a house without getting permission from the government, then the government can demolish it.

The problems are in those cases where homes which pre-date 1967 are found to not have planning permission (as obviously they wouldn't) and are demolished. That is wrong, and I stand against Israel on that. Also, planning permission is granted more easily, although by no means exclusively, to Jewish settlers. That is also wrong, and I stand against Israel on that.

I hope this has been clear. I am NOT saying wanton demolition of Palestinian homes is OK.

or http://icahd.org/

Yes, Israel is doing terrible things to Palestinians in the West Bank. I totally acknowledge that, and condemn it.

I have no reason to believe that Algeria deny the citizenship to Jews ,you have no evidence that Algeria kicked the Jews.

Look at the 1963 Nationality Code.

They could recover the Algerian Nationality by law. so they recover they synagogues.

But they had their synagogues taken away while they still were living in Algeria and using them.

You used Jewish sources to support their view !!

there is massacre called Sabra wa Shatila (hunderds of Arabs murders) do you heard about it ?

So just because a Jew wrote something, it can't be trusted?

As for the Sabra and Shatila massacre, no, I hadn't heard about that before, but I looked it up now you mentioned it. That is an absolute tragedy. Endless tribalistic violence continues to tear the Middle East apart, and it is really very sad.

And if you were going to ask, yes, of course I do condemn the involvement of Israeli military personnel, who were indirectly responsible by virtue of their not stepping in to prevent this violence. More tribalistic crap, which the world really needs to move past.

Whatever , that's will not reach plans of demolish homes or dailly killing as Israel doing to Arabs . Now .

I just Imagine if Moroco or Tunisia or Iran treat the Jews , as Israel treat the Arabs , what you will say ?

You still haven't shown any evidence for "daily killing".

If Morocco, Tunisia or Iran treated Jews in the same way as Israel treats Arab Israelis, or more seriously in the same way Israel treats Palestinians, I would condemn it just as I condemn it when Israel does it.

As I've said before, Godobeyer, pro-Palestinians think I'm pro-Israel, but pro-Israelis are likely to think I'm pro-Palestine. I am not blind to the human rights abuses against the Palestinians going on in the West Bank. But I think it pays to be aware of that, and also aware of how Palestinian people, the Palestinian governments and other Arab countries are also making the situation worse and not really helping to bring about peace. Not that the Israeli government is either, of course.

It's all a right mess.

 

[Godobeyer]

Perhaps you've misunderstood me.

Look, when you want to build a house, or a mosque or a shop or whatever, you have to apply to the local government for permission to do so, right? And if you build a house but you didn't get permission, then the government can demolish the house. In Israel, including Israel-administered territories in the West Bank, this applies to Jews and to Arabs. So if a Jew or an Arab builds a house without getting permission from the government, then the government can demolish it.

The problems are in those cases where homes which pre-date 1967 are found to not have planning permission (as obviously they wouldn't) and are demolished. That is wrong, and I stand against Israel on that. Also, planning permission is granted more easily, although by no means exclusively, to Jewish settlers. That is also wrong, and I stand against Israel on that.

I hope this has been clear. I am NOT saying wanton demolition of Palestinian homes is OK.



Yes, Israel is doing terrible things to Palestinians in the West Bank. I totally acknowledge that, and condemn it.



Look at the 1963 Nationality Code.



But they had their synagogues taken away while they still were living in Algeria and using them.



So just because a Jew wrote something, it can't be trusted?

As for the Sabra and Shatila massacre, no, I hadn't heard about that before, but I looked it up now you mentioned it. That is an absolute tragedy. Endless tribalistic violence continues to tear the Middle East apart, and it is really very sad.

And if you were going to ask, yes, of course I do condemn the involvement of Israeli military personnel, who were indirectly responsible by virtue of their not stepping in to prevent this violence. More tribalistic crap, which the world really needs to move past.



You still haven't shown any evidence for "daily killing".

If Morocco, Tunisia or Iran treated Jews in the same way as Israel treats Arab Israelis, or more seriously in the same way Israel treats Palestinians, I would condemn it just as I condemn it when Israel does it.

As I've said before, Godobeyer, pro-Palestinians think I'm pro-Israel, but pro-Israelis are likely to think I'm pro-Palestine. I am not blind to the human rights abuses against the Palestinians going on in the West Bank. But I think it pays to be aware of that, and also aware of how Palestinian people, the Palestinian governments and other Arab countries are also making the situation worse and not really helping to bring about peace. Not that the Israeli government is either, of course.

It's all a right mess.

West Bank are Arabs and Muslims , they are suffering from occupation of Jewish regime .
I don't think Jews whom in Morocco or Tunisia or Iran or anyother place are suffering from Muslim regime.

What evidence you have that Algerian authority take by force ",away while they still were living in Algeria and using them." ?


For 1963 Nationality Code , I discover it's just BIG lie about Algeria .

This is Algerian code of 1963

http://www.el-mouradia.dz/arabe/symbole/textes/constitution63.htm#PRINCIPESFONDAMENTAUX


المادة 4: الإسلام دين الدولة و تضمن الجمهورية لكل فــرد احترام آرائه و معتقداته و حرية ممارسة الأديان.

 

[Godobeyer]

These are the Constitutions of Algeria.
http://www.el-mouradia.dz/arabe/symbole/textes/constitution.htm

 

[Kirran]

West Bank are Arabs and Muslims , they are suffering from occupation of Jewish regime .
I don't think Jews whom in Morocco or Tunisia or Iran or anyother place are suffering from Muslim regime.

What evidence you have that Algerian authority take by force ",away while they still were living in Algeria and using them." ?


For 1963 Nationality Code , I discover it's just BIG lie about Algeria .

This is Algerian code of 1963

http://www.el-mouradia.dz/arabe/symbole/textes/constitution63.htm#PRINCIPESFONDAMENTAUX

المادة 4: الإسلام دين الدولة و تضمن الجمهورية لكل فــرد احترام آرائه و معتقداته و حرية ممارسة الأديان.

These are the Constitutions of Algeria.
http://www.el-mouradia.dz/arabe/symbole/textes/constitution.htm

I don't speak Arabic. Check this: Algerian Nationality Code, Law no. 63-69 of Mar. 27, 1963, section 34.

You don't think Jews in Morocco, Tunisia or Iran are suffering from Muslim rule? Well, this is denial, from my perspective. You just can't hear anybody say anything bad about a Muslim government.

http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/how-algeria-lost-its-jews/

Please read the whole article.

I have found further evidence about synagogues being burnt down, and about Jews having their rights revoked and being driven from Algeria. But specifically on the confiscations, I can't right now, so I can't back that detail up. If anybody else can provide backing?

In any case, my general understanding remains the same - the Jews in Algeria were denied all rights and therefore took advantage of French citizenship to flee to France, or alternatively to Israel.

 

[Kirran]

Look, I know it can be hard to accept that your own country has done bad things, and that there are problems in its society - but this is true of all countries, and we need to be honest about it. Would it help if I acknowledged many of the terrible things the UK and its predecessors have done, and some of the ongoing problems in British society?

For example, the atrocities during the Boer War, the divide-and-conquer strategies of the British Empire, genocides of indigenous peoples in various colonies, penalties for homosexuality until fairly recently, etc. As for ongoing problems, there remain substantial levels of racism, xenophobia and homophobia in British society, combined with issues with social dysfunction, the class system and alcohol abuse.

 

[Godobeyer]

I don't speak Arabic. Check this: Algerian Nationality Code, Law no. 63-69 of Mar. 27, 1963, section 34.

You don't think Jews in Morocco, Tunisia or Iran are suffering from Muslim rule? Well, this is denial, from my perspective. You just can't hear anybody say anything bad about a Muslim government.

http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/how-algeria-lost-its-jews/

Please read the whole article.

I have found further evidence about synagogues being burnt down, and about Jews having their rights revoked and being driven from Algeria. But specifically on the confiscations, I can't right now, so I can't back that detail up. If anybody else can provide backing?

In any case, my general understanding remains the same - the Jews in Algeria were denied all rights and therefore took advantage of French citizenship to flee to France, or alternatively to Israel.

I told you it's fake information.
Just use google translator , or ask someone know Arabic translate it for you , if you don't trust me.

No I don't think Jews in Morocco , Tunisia, Iran are suffering as Muslims suffering in Israel, do you have evidence ?

for burnt synagogues being burnt down, could be right ,sometimes in riots , you can't control people.

 

[FearGod]

Sorry but this is evil , do you mean it's ok that Israel demolish homes of West Bank is legal ?so they are slaves for Israel or what , so Israel could did whatever they want ?

They are Arabs under Jewish occupation, The Jews whom demolishing Arab homes , is that clear?

Jimmy Carter unveils truth about Israel

Please watch

or http://icahd.org/




I have no reason to believe that Algeria deny the citizenship to Jews ,you have no evidence that Algeria kicked the Jews.



They could recover the Algerian Nationality by law. so they recover they synagogues.




You used Jewish sources to support their view !!

there is massacre called Sabra wa Shatila (hunderds of Arabs murders) do you heard about it ?


Whatever , that's will not reach plans of demolish homes or dailly killing as Israel doing to Arabs . Now .

I just Imagine if Moroco or Tunisia or Iran treat the Jews , as Israel treat the Arabs , what you will say ?

Don't waste your time with such kind of people?

 

[Kirran]

I told you it's fake information.
Just use google translator , or ask someone know Arabic translate it for you , if you don't trust me.

No I don't think Jews in Morocco , Tunisia, Iran are suffering as Muslims suffering in Israel, do you have evidence ?

for burnt synagogues being burnt down, could be right ,sometimes in riots , you can't control people.

That seems to be the constitution, rather than the Nationality Code, which I understand to be something different?

http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/88249/out-of-tune-3

Yemen is probably the worst, for the current Jews in Arab countries - that's why the Jews are being smuggled out of the country.

But seeing as well over 95% of the Jews in Arab countries have already fled due to violence and discrimination, it's scarcely relevant.

If we are going to help solve the issues in Palestine, and get freedom and peace for the Palestinian people (who are being solidly discriminated against and marginalised), we need to come at it with all the facts. We need to acknowledge the forces which have been at work. To reduce it to 'Jews all bad, Arabs all good' means that people who know about the issues at hand won't take you seriously, so progress won't be made in helping the Palestinians. Helping the Palestinians requires honesty and acknowledging how terrible recent history has been in this whole area for all concerned.

 

[Godobeyer]

That seems to be the constitution, rather than the Nationality Code, which I understand to be something different?

It's called here constitution , no it's not different.

Yemen is probably the worst, for the current Jews in Arab countries - that's why the Jews are being smuggled out of the country.

They are just poor like other Yemens ?

For Yemen regime , I don't think they got suffered (demolish homes for exemple )

But seeing as well over 95% of the Jews in Arab countries have already fled due to violence and discrimination, it's scarcely relevant.

voilence maybe , but discrimination in what ?

Here are some quotes which hint at anti-Semitism within Arab societies. Not that such sentiments are universal, certainly, but we do need to acknowledge the forces at play here. Not that it excuses current abuses in the West Bank, but it does help us to understand them.

If we are going to help solve the issues in Palestine, and get freedom and peace for the Palestinian people, we need to come at it with all the facts. We need to acknowledge the forces which have been at work. To reduce it to 'Jews all bad, Arabs all good' means that people who know about the issues at hand won't take you seriously, so progress won't be made in helping the Palestinians. Helping the Palestinians requires honesty and acknowledging how terrible recent history has been in this whole area for all concerned.

Arabs are already semitics !!I guess it's about religion more than race.

I am not saying all Jews are bad/good or Arabs are bad/good , I am talking how the Israeli regime deal with Arabs .

The Palestinian deserve to live in freedom and independent.[/QUOTE]

 

[Kirran]

It's called here constitution , no it's not different.

A Nationality Code is not the 'code of the nation', it's the code governing who receives citizenship. It is distinct from a constitution.

They are just poor like other Yemens ?

For Yemen regime , I don't think they got suffered (demolish homes for exemple )

http://jta.org/news/article/2009/08/24/1007414/report-more-yemeni-jews-leaving-for-israel

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/157069#.UOzt8m_s6zo

voilence maybe , but discrimination in what ?

What do you mean?

Arabs are already semitics !!I guess it's about religion more than race.

The term 'anti-Semitic' in English refers to prejudice against Jews in particular.

I am not saying all Jews are bad/good or Arabs are bad/good , I am talking how the Israeli regime deal with Arabs

The Palestinian deserve to live in freedom and independent.

Yes.

 

[Flankerl]

Its stopping to be funny.

For Yemen regime , I don't think they got suffered (demolish homes for exemple )

You know apart from the occasionally kidnapping of a Jewish girl by Muslims, then converted and married to one of them. Nothing really serious.
Did you know that Israel...

for burnt synagogues being burnt down, could be right ,sometimes in riots , you can't control people.

Yeah you can't control people.
Jews just need to accept that sometimes a switch in the heads of Muslims is pressed and they need to go to the Jewish quarter and come over for some rape, murder, kidnapping and torching.
Its just how these things are. Jews shouldn't be so whiny. Muslims love Jews! Except when the switch gets flipped.