An execution of wounded by Israeli soldier !

[Godobeyer]

Based on what do you believe this? Or is it just an article of faith?

Obviously, non-Muslims aren't allowed to become citizens of Saudi Arabia.

I think that better than give a ctizenship to some one and treat him/her racism or unjustice

They do to some degree, but they face severe restrictions. In the same way that Arab Israelis are permitted to build houses, get educated, go into politics etc, but in some cases face a degree of restriction.

but they don't face much racist and unjustice that Arabs facing in Israel .

How about Jews to Jews !

Thousands in Jerusalem Protest Racism Against Ethiopian Israelis
read more: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/...st-racism-against-ethiopian-israelis-1.407998

 

[Godobeyer]

There's no need to be rude.

There are in fact Muslim Arabs within the Israeli military, including common soldiers medics, Lieutenants and a Major.

Any evidence for this claim ?

 

[Kirran]

I think that better than give a ctizenship to some one and treat him/her racism or unjustice

but they don't face much racist and unjustice that Arabs facing in Israel .

How about Jews to Jews !

Thousands in Jerusalem Protest Racism Against Ethiopian Israelis
read more: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/...st-racism-against-ethiopian-israelis-1.407998

The former is simply untrue.

A non-Muslim in Saudi Arabia is not allowed to own property, have public office, full employment, practice their religion, etc. A Muslim in Israel can do all this.

Yes there's racism towards the Beta Israel in some sectors. It's improved drastically though.

What you don't seem to understand is that Israel can be something other than 'paradise where there is no racism or discrimination ever' or 'hellhole where minorities have no rights and are constantly slaughtered'. It is at neither of these extremes. Saudi is rather closer to the latter, quite literally.

Any evidence for this claim ?

http://www.israelhayom.com/site/newsletter_article.php?id=5727

http://dover.idf.il/IDF/English/News/Up_Close/10/07/2601.htm

For most Israelis, military service is compulsory. Minority groups, such as Arabs, can choose not to enlist. Some decide to join up anyway. In particular, the Druze are very well-represented.

 

[Tumah]

It's stupid idea, I have no doubt in that.

Because If he had bomb he would use it,btw it's more than 8 years ago the last one inside Israel.

Mar 23, 2011 - One woman, a 59-year-old British national, was killed and about 50 wounded when a bomb exploded across from the Jerusalem Convention Center, near the Central Bus Station. The bomb had been placed near a telephone booth at a crowded bus stop next to Egged city bus #74.

Aug 18, 2011 - In a series of terrorist attacks was perpetrated against civilians and IDF soldiers in Israel's southern region, six civilians were killed as well as one soldier and a police officer, and at least 31 were wounded. The terrorists responsible for the attacks originated in the Gaza Strip and crossed into Israel via Egypt. IDF forces pursued and killed a number of the terrorists responsible for the attacks.

July 18, 2012 - Six people, five Israelis and the Bulgarian bus driver, were killed and over 30 wounded in a suicide bombing attack on a bus carrying Israelis at Sarafovo Airport in Burgas, Bulgaria. The seventh body was identified as the suicide bomber.

Nov 21, 2012 - Shortly before noon a bomb exploded in a Dan city bus no. 142 on Shaul Hamelech Street in the center of Tel Aviv. 21 people were wounded, three in moderate to serious condition. Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri praised the bombing.

Oct 11, 2015 - A female terrorist detonated an explosive device, lightly wounding a police officer near the checkpoint on the road between Ma'aleh Adumim and Jerusalem. A traffic police officer stopped the driver, who was in the lane reserved for public transportation, and approached the car. The driver exited the vehicle, shouted "Allahu Akbar" and detonated an explosive device. The terrorist was seriously injured in the attack and was evacuated to hospital in Jerusalem with burns to her entire body.

 

[FearGod]

http://www.israelhayom.com/site/newsletter_article.php?id=5727

http://dover.idf.il/IDF/English/News/Up_Close/10/07/2601.htm

For most Israelis, military service is compulsory. Minority groups, such as Arabs, can choose not to enlist. Some decide to join up anyway. In particular, the Druze are very well-represented.

Yes the Druze aren't Muslims and they're among the ones who believed the stupid things, Israel
is attracting many people by the pretext of Judaism, many stupid people believed it and the ones
who arrived to Israel are the scapegoats to fight and to die for the name of Judaism and Israel, but
in fact they're fighting for the zionists and for their greed objectives.

 

[Kirran]

Yes the Druze aren't Muslims and they're among the ones who believed the stupid things, Israel
is attracting many people by the pretext of Judaism, many stupid people believed it and the ones
who arrived to Israel are the scapegoats to fight and to die for the name of Judaism and Israel, but
in fact they're fighting for the zionists and for their greed objectives.

The 'in particular' before the mention of the Druze signified it wasn't and isn't just Druze. There are Muslim and Christian Arabs also in the Israeli military.

As for the rest - you know Israel isn't some warzone right? It is a well-functioning developed country where almost everybody lives a peaceful life. Going to Israel does not mean fighting and dying for the 'Zionists'. I know people who've lived in Israel, just as I know people who've lived in Palestine. In both cases they're complex humans trying to live their lives.

No, Israel is not a perfect country. Yes, there are human rights issues involved in current military policy as it relates to the West Bank and to Gaza. Yes, there are Israelis who are prejudiced. But it's not some evil apartheid Zionist conspiracy. And the Palestinians and their governments are not blameless in the perpetuation of the cycle of violence, by a long road. It's a real-world situation with real-world nuance.

 

[Kirran]

@Flankerl - there isn't even a Balrog, is there? Let alone a light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[FearGod]

The 'in particular' before the mention of the Druze signified it wasn't and isn't just Druze. There are Muslim and Christian Arabs also in the Israeli military.

How many Muslims and Christians in the army? your official statistics please.

As for the rest - you know Israel isn't some warzone right? It is a well-functioning developed country where almost everybody lives a peaceful life. Going to Israel does not mean fighting and dying for the 'Zionists'. I know people who've lived in Israel, just as I know people who've lived in Palestine. In both cases they're complex humans trying to live their lives.

Again the hard thing to understand, Israel is the occupier and in the name of Judaism.

No, Israel is not a perfect country. Yes, there are human rights issues involved in current military policy as it relates to the West Bank and to Gaza. Yes, there are Israelis who are prejudiced. But it's not some evil apartheid Zionist conspiracy. And the Palestinians and their governments are not blameless in the perpetuation of the cycle of violence, by a long road. It's a real-world situation with real-world nuance.

Again and again and again, hard to understand who's the occupier.

 

[Godobeyer]

Mar 23, 2011 - One woman, a 59-year-old British national, was killed and about 50 wounded when a bomb exploded across from the Jerusalem Convention Center, near the Central Bus Station. The bomb had been placed near a telephone booth at a crowded bus stop next to Egged city bus #74.

Aug 18, 2011 - In a series of terrorist attacks was perpetrated against civilians and IDF soldiers in Israel's southern region, six civilians were killed as well as one soldier and a police officer, and at least 31 were wounded. The terrorists responsible for the attacks originated in the Gaza Strip and crossed into Israel via Egypt. IDF forces pursued and killed a number of the terrorists responsible for the attacks.

July 18, 2012 - Six people, five Israelis and the Bulgarian bus driver, were killed and over 30 wounded in a suicide bombing attack on a bus carrying Israelis at Sarafovo Airport in Burgas, Bulgaria. The seventh body was identified as the suicide bomber.

Nov 21, 2012 - Shortly before noon a bomb exploded in a Dan city bus no. 142 on Shaul Hamelech Street in the center of Tel Aviv. 21 people were wounded, three in moderate to serious condition. Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri praised the bombing.

Oct 11, 2015 - A female terrorist detonated an explosive device, lightly wounding a police officer near the checkpoint on the road between Ma'aleh Adumim and Jerusalem. A traffic police officer stopped the driver, who was in the lane reserved for public transportation, and approached the car. The driver exited the vehicle, shouted "Allahu Akbar" and detonated an explosive device. The terrorist was seriously injured in the attack and was evacuated to hospital in Jerusalem with burns to her entire body.

I hope you listed the victimes of Palestinians just during the same period!!!

I was talking about suicide bombs inside Israel for OP with the others .

Mar 23, 2011 was suicide bomber , I guess no

Aug 18, 2011 suicide bomber inside Israel , I guess no

July 18, 2012 suicide bomber , I guess no .

Nov 21, 2012 was a suicide bomber ?

anyway , what your opinion about crime of Israeli soldier toward wounded attacker ?

 

[Aquitaine]

Usualy when a Palestinian had bomb he goes to crowd of Israelis inside Israel, not in Arab neighborhood.
I believe it's about hate or revenge more than stupid idea of suicide bomb.

Hate or revenge by the Palestinian or the soldier? Who attacked who?

 

[Godobeyer]

The former is simply untrue.

A non-Muslim in Saudi Arabia is not allowed to own property, have public office, full employment, practice their religion, etc. A Muslim in Israel can do all this.

Yes there's racism towards the Beta Israel in some sectors. It's improved drastically though.

What you don't seem to understand is that Israel can be something other than 'paradise where there is no racism or discrimination ever' or 'hellhole where minorities have no rights and are constantly slaughtered'. It is at neither of these extremes. Saudi is rather closer to the latter, quite literally.

I disagree it's true .
indeed it's better than to live in country treat you racism way .

do you compare 1- Israel mistreat the Arabs citizen , and killed them dailly , and ,to 2- Saudi Arabia mistreat the non-Muslim citizen !!!

I believe Israel doing evil to Arabs more than Saudi doing evil to non-Muslims. (especially about justice and threaten of life )

http://www.israelhayom.com/site/newsletter_article.php?id=5727

http://dover.idf.il/IDF/English/News/Up_Close/10/07/2601.htm

For most Israelis, military service is compulsory. Minority groups, such as Arabs, can choose not to enlist. Some decide to join up anyway. In particular, the Druze are very well-represented.

I am not sure about this , if that could be true.
do you think is fair a one single soldier , could represent a community of people ?

Do you heard about Palestinian Jews , they are Jews but they had Palestinian nationality and they don't support Israel.

 

[Aquitaine]

@Kirran you are fighting a windmill. Israel is always worse. Otherwise the worldview of some falls together like a cardhouse.

You could tell them that one of the biggest heroes of the IDF was Lieutenant Colonel Abd el-Majid Hidr, they wouldn't care.
Or about former Brigadier General Imad Fares and former Major General Yusef Mishleb. They will discard it because its Israel.

You could even tell them about former Supreme Court justice Abdel Rahman Zuabi or current Supreme Court justice Salim Joubran.

It does not matter. It never will. What people have to realise is that there is no peaceful way out. Not until something major changes in the Arab world and that simply will not happen.

Sadly this is seeming more and more true.

 

[Godobeyer]

Hate or revenge by the Palestinian or the soldier? Who attacked who?

The video shows that soldiers attacked two Palestinians , the soldiers claim "they attacked had been attacked by knives by "

I don't think that soldier shot the wounded Palestinians "because of bomb" , he shot him because he want to revenge to his friend , or because he hates the Palestinians , why you ignore this fact ?

 

[FearGod]

Sadly this is seeming more and more true.

Yes the Arab world needs changes the same as done by Saladin.

 

[Aquitaine]

Yes the Arab world needs changes the same as done by Saladin.

Huh?

 

[Aquitaine]

The video shows that soldiers attacked two Palestinians , the soldiers claim "they attacked had been attacked by knives by "

I don't think that soldier shot the wounded Palestinians "because of bomb" , he shot him because he want to revenge to his friend , or because he hates the Palestinians , why you ignore this fact ?

Just because you believe he was shot out of pure hatred/revenge doesn't make it a fact.
On this issue we will just have to agree to disagree.

 

[FearGod]

On this issue we will just have to agree to disagree.

If you disagree then we'll be lost.
Actually i would be surprised if you had to agree, get lost with your stupid view.
A soldier killing a wounded person that can't even move and you're making an inhumane and
stupid excuses, indeed disgusting humanity.

 

[Tumah]

I hope you listed the victimes of Palestinians just during the same period!!!

I was talking about suicide bombs inside Israel for OP with the others .

Mar 23, 2011 was suicide bomber , I guess no

Aug 18, 2011 suicide bomber inside Israel , I guess no

July 18, 2012 suicide bomber , I guess no .

Nov 21, 2012 was a suicide bomber ?

anyway , what your opinion about crime of Israeli soldier toward wounded attacker ?

http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-C...enew-suicide-bombings-against-Israelis-419968

Personally, I think once you chase an innocent person someone with intent to kill, you lose the right to not be killed. Its too bad that's not the law in Israel, but it should be. If someone had a vendetta out against my family, I'd shoot him even if he was on his way to the bathroom. Just because he wasn't successful this time, doesn't mean he won't be next time. And that's not a risk I'm willing to take.

But in this case, there was a concern as well, which also explains why the MDA didn't go straight to the terrorist: no one had checked him for bombs which is standard procedure before the MDA will go to help any terrorist. And treating terrorists is unfortunately, something they do to often. Which is why they keep coming back.

 

[Kirran]

How many Muslims and Christians in the army? your official statistics please.



Again the hard thing to understand, Israel is the occupier and in the name of Judaism.



Again and again and again, hard to understand who's the occupier.

Well a few figures: there are 1700 Muslims from the Bedouin Arab community alone and 10-20% of Bedouin men of draft age join up.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Arabs-fight-line-unbreakable-blood-pact.html

Each year about 20 non-Bedouin Muslim Arabs join up. Christian numbers are higher but a cursory look didn't reveal exact figures for them. You can also use Google.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/his-big-secret-hes-arab-muslim-and-serves-in-the-idf/

As for Israel being the occupier of the West Bank territory, I understand that and I don't deny it. Israel being the occupying force doesn't mean there isn't nuance to the situation.

Something you may need to understand is that Judaism doesn't require Zionism (many Orthodox Jews in particular are non-Zionist) and Zionism is not purely religious. There is Relugious Zionism, but there are also non-religious forms of Zionism, such as Labour Zionism and Green Zionism.

I disagree it's true .
indeed it's better than to live in country treat you racism way .

do you compare 1- Israel mistreat the Arabs citizen , and killed them dailly , and ,to 2- Saudi Arabia mistreat the non-Muslim citizen !!!

I believe Israel doing evil to Arabs more than Saudi doing evil to non-Muslims. (especially about justice and threaten of life )

I am not sure about this , if that could be true.
do you think is fair a one single soldier , could represent a community of people ?

Do you heard about Palestinian Jews , they are Jews but they had Palestinian nationality and they don't support Israel.

Israel doesn't kill its Arab citizens daily, that's an absurd and rather disgusting exaggeration. There is some discrimination against them buttthey're not massacred or anything, and they actually can own houses and have jobs and go into government.

You believe Israel is doing more evil to Arabs than Saudi is to non-Muslims - OK, you can believe whatever you want, but this strikes me as an article of faith rather than reason.

As for the single soldier representing the whole community: no, he can't. But he's by no means the only one (putting 'Muslim Zionists' and 'Arabs in IDF' into Google will get you more stories) and I'm showing that they are permitted to go into the military and do reach positions of authority. Not that this is universally happening, and not that there aren't big issues between the communities.

On Palestinian Jews: Yeah, I've heard of them. It's such a diverse area! Have you heard of the Samaritans? Perhaps this is them?

Apologies for not breaking up the quote, I'm on my phone.

Both Godobeyer and FearGod - to better grasp the nature of your understandings, I wonder if you could tell me how many people, and specifically how many Jews, you understand to have died in the Holocaust? Just as a fact of background, I know it doesn't justify present-day discrimination (in either direction) etc.

 

[Tumah]

Do you heard about Palestinian Jews , they are Jews but they had Palestinian nationality and they don't support Israel.

Those people are Neturei Karta. They're not pro-Palestinian as much as they are anti-Israel on religious grounds not for humanitarian reasons. Their relationship with the Arab world in general is incidental "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". Their name is, "Neturei Karta" which is Aramaic for "[the]Guardians of [the] City". The "city" being Jerusalem which they are intend to be guarding from Zionists because of the Talmudic prohibition for Jews to control Israel. They are pro-Palestinians as a result of their anti-Zionism, not the other way around.