An execution of wounded by Israeli soldier !

[Kirran]

Those people are Neturei Karta. They're not pro-Palestinian as much as they are anti-Israel on religious grounds not for humanitarian reasons. Their relationship with the Arab world in general is incidental "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". Their name is, "Neturei Karta" which is Aramaic for "[the]Guardians of [the] City". The "city" being Jerusalem which they are intend to be guarding from Zionists because of the Talmudic prohibition for Jews to control Israel. They are pro-Palestinians as a result of their anti-Zionism, not the other way around.

Are you essentially of the same understandings, but not so activist about it? A pragmatic anti-Zionist?

 

[Tumah]

Are you essentially of the same understandings, but not so activist about it? A pragmatic anti-Zionist?

Haha, I guess that's a good way to put it. Unlike Neturei Karta, most of us recognize the situation on the ground and that abetting Muslim terrorists will only lead to more death not a positive change in the situation. Even Satmar Hassidim (a vociferous anti-Zionist sect mostly based in the US) don't do the things these guys do. Its not even the entire Neturei Karta who does all these things, but a group within the group. Within the ultra-Orthodox Jewish community (of which they are a part) which is to one degree or another anti-Zionist, no one really looks at them as anything more than a bad joke and a public hazard.

 

[Kirran]

Haha, I guess that's a good way to put it. Unlike Neturei Karta, most of us recognize the situation on the ground and that abetting Muslim terrorists will only lead to more death not a positive change in the situation. Even Satmar Hassidim (a vociferous anti-Zionist sect mostly based in the US) don't do the things these guys do. Its not even the entire Neturei Karta who does all these things, but a group within the group. Within the ultra-Orthodox Jewish community (of which they are a part) which is to one degree or another anti-Zionist, no one really looks at them as anything more than a bad joke and a public hazard.

Having perused Wiki, that seems about right! Even flirting with Holocaust denial.

Certainly, abetting terrorists will help nothing. A genuine commitment to a peace process, either one- or two-state, by the Israeli government would be rather nice. But that's a bit of a pipe-dream as things stand.

But in the case of these fine Neturei Karta fellows, I don't think peace is really their agenda anyway! Dismantlement of the State of Israel by whatever means.

 

[Tumah]

Having perused Wiki, that seems about right! Even flirting with Holocaust denial.

Certainly, abetting terrorists will help nothing. A genuine commitment to a peace process, either one- or two-state, by the Israeli government would be rather nice. But that's a bit of a pipe-dream as things stand.

But in the case of these fine Neturei Karta fellows, I don't think peace is really their agenda anyway! Dismantlement of the State of Israel by whatever means.

Everyone has their crazies I guess...

 

[Kirran]

Everyone has their crazies I guess...

We don't. Definitely not.

Just don't look up Vishwa Hindu Parishad. Or the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh. Or those elements of ISKCON. Or the BJP.

 

[Kirran]

Incidentally, a question to ask oneself: if an Israeli Jew converts to Islam, what happens to them? If a Saudi Muslim converts to Judaism, what happens?

 

[Godobeyer]

Those people are Neturei Karta. They're not pro-Palestinian as much as they are anti-Israel on religious grounds not for humanitarian reasons. Their relationship with the Arab world in general is incidental "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". Their name is, "Neturei Karta" which is Aramaic for "[the]Guardians of [the] City". The "city" being Jerusalem which they are intend to be guarding from Zionists because of the Talmudic prohibition for Jews to control Israel. They are pro-Palestinians as a result of their anti-Zionism, not the other way around.

I guess they are living in Palestine with Palestinians .

Do you consider them Jews , or less Jews, trahison Jews ?

So any Jews which against zionism is called automatically Neturei Karta ?

I heard this many times before !
Is really Talmud prohibt for Jews to control Israel ?

 

[Kirran]

I guess they are living in Palestine with Palestinians .

Do you consider them Jews , or less Jews, trahison Jews ?

So any Jews which against zionism is called automatically Neturei Karta ?

I heard this many times before !
Is really Talmud prohibt for Jews to control Israel ?

Godobeyer, Tumah is an anti-Zionist.

Neturei Karta are a particular organisation of anti-Zionists. There are many anti-Zionist groups.

 

[Godobeyer]

http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-C...enew-suicide-bombings-against-Israelis-419968

Personally, I think once you chase an innocent person someone with intent to kill, you lose the right to not be killed. Its too bad that's not the law in Israel, but it should be. If someone had a vendetta out against my family, I'd shoot him even if he was on his way to the bathroom. Just because he wasn't successful this time, doesn't mean he won't be next time. And that's not a risk I'm willing to take.

But in this case, there was a concern as well, which also explains why the MDA didn't go straight to the terrorist: no one had checked him for bombs which is standard procedure before the MDA will go to help any terrorist. And treating terrorists is unfortunately, something they do to often. Which is why they keep coming back.

You are off our point !
let me explain : I was talking with others about ,why Israeli soldier murder the wounded , they claim that he had bomb.

If about kill innocents or oppression people or being unjustice to Arabs than to Jews, that Israel will lost , if we count.

 

[Tumah]

I guess they are living in Palestine with Palestinians .

That's ok. I hope they don't get killed.

Do you consider them Jews , or less Jews, trahison Jews ?

Misguided, but 100% Jews.

So any Jews which against zionism is called automatically Neturei Karta ?

No, they are a sect of anti-Zionists. There are many other groups of anti-Zionists. These are just the most extreme.

I heard this many times before !
Is really Talmud prohibt for Jews to control Israel ?

There is an argument among the Rabbis whether that oath is still binding. In the modern world, (to generalize and perhaps stereotype a bit) the religious Zioinsts hold by the opinions that believe the oath is not binding and the ultra-Orthodox hold by the opinions that believe the oath is still binding.

 

[Godobeyer]

Godobeyer, Tumah is an anti-Zionist.

Neturei Karta are a particular organisation of anti-Zionists. There are many anti-Zionist groups.

Thanks for this value information , so any group which is anti-Zionists called Neturei Karta (auto) ?

 

[Godobeyer]

That's ok. I hope they don't get killed.

Misguided, but 100% Jews.

No, they are a sect of anti-Zionists. There are many other groups of anti-Zionists. These are just the most extreme.

There is an argument among the Rabbis whether that oath is still binding. In the modern world, (to generalize and perhaps stereotype a bit) the religious Zioinsts hold by the opinions that believe the oath is not binding and the ultra-Orthodox hold by the opinions that believe the oath is still binding.

Thank you for these informations

 

[Kirran]

Thanks for this value information , so any group which is anti-Zionists called Neturei Karta (auto) ?

NO. Emphatically not.

Neturei Karta are one very small and extremist group of anti-Zionist ultra-Orthodox Jews. There are many anti-Zionists who are not part of Neturei Karta.

EDIT: Tumah got there before I did.

 

[Tumah]

You are off our point !
let me explain : I was talking with others about ,why Israeli soldier murder the wounded , they claim that he had bomb.

If about kill innocents or oppression people or being unjustice to Arabs than to Jews, that Israel will lost , if we count.

I've been called off my rocker, but this is the first time I've been called off my point.

But I was on point. Read the link I quoted.=\

 

[Kirran]

Tumah what are your thoughts on establishing a halachic State of Judea in the Israeli-majority 10% of the West Bank, were the Israeli government to withdraw as it did in Gaza (not that I think that the latter is likely or advisable)?

 

[Godobeyer]

I've been called off my rocker, but this is the first time I've been called off my point.

But I was on point. Read the link I quoted.=\

The video show they threaten to attack by bomb , not by knife.

by the way I am against suicide bombs , but I am not against fighting Israeli soldiers in West Bank, because they considered as invades.

 

[Kirran]

The video show they threaten to attack by bomb , not by knife.

by the way I am against suicide bombs , but I am not against fighting Israeli soldiers in West Bank, because they considered as invades.

Innocent Israeli civilians who moved there for cheaper housing so they could raise their kids in a more prosperous environment, or who were born and brought up in the West Bank? I hardly think that's fair.

Godobeyer, do you support a one-state or a two-state solution?

Now your bashing ISKCON? Are you just randomly choosing groups to be against, or are you trying to score brownie points?

ISKCON per se, no. ISKCON is a mixed bag. But there are some rather fundamentalist elements within it, and there was all that business with New Vrindavan.

Probably be bashing Swaminarayan group if we give it the oppurtunity.

I don't know that much about them. There is unfortunately a fairly high incidence of rude members within these new Vaishnava movements. But it is not universal or intrinsic.

 

[Tumah]

The video show they threaten to attack by bomb , not by knife.

Right, but the threat of suicide bombs is still a real threat as I showed you in the link. So just because he had began his attack with a knife, doesn't mean the soliders should make an assumption that will cost them their lives. Its better to be safe than sorry, right?

by the way I am against suicide bombs , but I am not against fighting Israeli soldiers in West Bank, because they considered as invades.

And of course, the "invader" soldiers are also allowed to protect their own lives by fighting back.

 

[Godobeyer]

Innocent Israeli civilians who moved there for cheaper housing so they could raise their kids in a more prosperous environment, or who were born and brought up in the West Bank? I hardly think that's fair.

Godobeyer, do you support a one-state or a two-state solution?

Israel build towns to Jews inside Palestine , why not build towns to Arabs inside Palestine or Israel too ?



I am with two state solution , one state it's like putting a sheep and lion in same cage .

 

[Godobeyer]

Right, but the threat of suicide bombs is still a real threat as I showed you in the link. So just because he had began his attack with a knife, doesn't mean the soliders should make an assumption that will cost them their lives. Its better to be safe than sorry, right?

No , I discuss this before , I find it as stupid idea .

And of course, the "invader" soldiers are also allowed to protect their own lives by fighting back.

The Palestinians had the right to fight the invaders , they just had knifes , if they had guns they will use it .