An execution of wounded by Israeli soldier !

[Kirran]

Israel build towns to Jews inside Palestine , why not build towns to Arabs inside Palestine or Israel too ?

I am with two state solution , one state it's like putting a sheep and lion in same cage .

There are Arab towns in Israel.

I agree that a continuing settlement drive isn't helping anything - but the people who are already there are there to stay, that's the reality we've got to work with.

Also, Arab Israelis are perfectly free to go and live in the West Bank Israeli settlements alongside Jewish citizens, as far as I'm aware.

 

[Godobeyer]

There are Arab towns in Israel.

Built by Israel ? I don't think so .

Also, Arab Israelis are perfectly free to go and live in the West Bank Israeli settlements alongside Jewish citizens, as far as I'm aware.

I don't think Arabs Israelis had the right to live in Israeli settlement in WB.

 

[Kirran]

Built by Israel ? I don't think so .



I don't think Arabs Israelis had the right to live in Israeli settlement in WB.

In both cases here you're just saying what you think. You have nothing to back it up.

The Israeli settlements in the West Bank are Israeli settlements, not Jewish settlements.

 

[Tumah]

No , I discuss this before , I find it as stupid idea .

Why?

The Palestinians had the right to fight the invaders , they just had knifes , if they had guns they will use it .

Right, I'm just saying, that when someone is attacked (like with a knife), the "invaders" also have a right to defend themselves.

 

[Tumah]

Built by Israel ? I don't think so.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghosh

 

[Kirran]

Do Berbers in Algeria have the right to attack Arabs with knives?

 

[Tumah]

Tumah what are your thoughts on establishing a halachic State of Judea in the Israeli-majority 10% of the West Bank, were the Israeli government to withdraw as it did in Gaza (not that I think that the latter is likely or advisable)?

I already said, the reason for the anti-Zionist stance is that Jews are fore-sworn from controlling Israel. As much as it would be nice, I don't think that's a permissible possibility. I see that option as better than living under Shari'a but worse than being a British mandate. There are plenty of religious Zionists here. So they might go for that idea.

 

[Kirran]

I already said, the reason for the anti-Zionist stance is that Jews are fore-sworn from controlling Israel. As much as it would be nice, I don't think that's a permissible possibility. I see that option as better than living under Shari'a but worse than being a British mandate. There are plenty of religious Zionists here. So they might go for that idea.

OK, that makes sense. So you'd still go for it if control of where you live had been handed over to Palestine - or would you prefer just to bail out to Israel proper?

If there was a binational state which was a mixture of Arabs and Jews, roughly 50-50, do you think it'd be better if the Jews had no political say? As this would be exerting control over the region (call it Israel, call it Palestine, call it the Cisjordanian Republic, as you will).

Pragmatism might hold sway here, of course.


I'd like to give a stat, unrelated, to add to the general discussion:

Approximately 73% of Israeli Jews are born in Israel, 18.4% are immigrants from Europe and the Americas, and 8.6% are immigrants from Asia and Africa.

 

[Tumah]

OK, that makes sense.

If there was a binational state which was a mixture of Arabs and Jews, roughly 50-50, do you think it'd be better if the Jews had no political say? As this would be exerting control over the region (call it Israel, call it Palestine, call it the Cisjordanian Republic, as you will).

Pragmatism might hold sway here, of course.


I'd like to give a stat, unrelated, to add to the general discussion:

That's why I said before, its a better option than being under shari'a. Keep in mind, Arab attacks on Jewish settlements predates the creation of the state (its for this same reason that I'm not a fan of those same neighbors having open borders to import weapons). So I'm not sure being under Arab rule would be a safe option for the Jews even though ideally it would have been the better option. In such a case, I'd guess that the Rabbinical leaders would rely on the lenient opinions that allow Jewish control, out of safety concern.
Info on the oath.

 

[Godobeyer]

In both cases here you're just saying what you think. You have nothing to back it up.

The Israeli settlements in the West Bank are Israeli settlements, not Jewish settlements.

Seems you are so kind enough to believe this.

The facts tells you absolutly wrong :

 

[Godobeyer]

Do Berbers in Algeria have the right to attack Arabs with knives?

No there is no racist act toward them , why they should ?

 

[Godobeyer]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghosh

I check out , it's normal old town , do you claim this town built by Israel to Arabs ?

 

[Godobeyer]

Why?

It's just stupid , I explain it before.
Because if he had bomb he suppose use it , not knife , then it's Arab neighborhood , not Jewish region.

Right, I'm just saying, that when someone is attacked (like with a knife), the "invaders" also have a right to defend themselves.

It's run this way , until the oppression gone.

 

[Tumah]

I check out , it's normal old town , do you claim this town built by Israel to Arabs ?

What do you mean built by Israel. Arabs make up the overwhelmingly vast majority of construction workers in Israel. So almost everything is built by Arabs. But that town is in Israel proper and is bound by Israeli law just like any Jewish town. They are sanctioned by Israel.

 

[Tumah]

It's just stupid , I explain it before.
Because if he had bomb he suppose use it , not knife , then it's Arab neighborhood , not Jewish region.

So you're making the argument that Arabs don't blow each other up...?

It's run this way , until the oppression gone.

Or until the Palestinians decide to become peaceful like the residents of Abu Ghosh.

 

[Godobeyer]

What do you mean built by Israel. Arabs make up the overwhelmingly vast majority of construction workers in Israel. So almost everything is built by Arabs. But that town is in Israel proper and is bound by Israeli law just like any Jewish town. They are sanctioned by Israel.

Yes , Israel always built towns to Jews , but did not do the same to Arabs .
on contrary the destruct the homes of Arabs !!

Thousand of Arabs homes destroyed .

 

[Godobeyer]

So you're making the argument that Arabs don't blow each other up...?

Yes for Palestine , yes .

Or until the Palestinians decide to become peaceful like the residents of Abu Ghosh.

There is no peace with racist and occupying .

 

[Kirran]

Seems you are so kind enough to believe this.

The facts tells you absolutly wrong :

Godobeyer, why do you think random videos on Youtube are at all representative of facts on the ground? Not a reputable source at all.

And this is very openly not a video about the majority of Israelis, or the majority of Israelis in the West Bank. Nor does it say outright that they're all Jews, which was the entire point. It literally says in the video that this is a little extremist group among the settlers, who destroy both Palestinian and Israeli property. It says they are not representative of the Israeli settlers. So it rather backs up what I am saying.

And in any case, I do not deny there is discrimination against Arabs in Israel. But you're exaggerating it to a ridiculous degree, and by doing so de-legitimising the entire Palestinian rights movement and peace process. There are real problems with human rights issues regarding Palestinians and to a lesser extent Israeli Arabs, and by just repeating the most alarmist views you hear about you're cheapening the arguments to do something about them.

No there is no racist act toward them , why they should ?

It's not about whether they should do it. It's about whether, as the people who were there before the Arabs, they have the right to if they felt it was necessary.

 

[Tumah]

Yes , Israel always built towns to Jews , but did not do the same to Arabs .
on contrary the destruct the homes of Arabs !!

Thousand of Arabs homes destroyed .

I don't think you understood what I said. I said, Arabs are the ones that build the homes and Israel is the one who allows it, just like they did in Abu Ghosh or any other town in Israel.

Yes for Palestine , yes .

Are you serious? Arabs are blowing themselves and other Arabs up all over the Middle East.

There is no peace with racist and occupying .

Apparently the Arabs residents of Israeli Abu Ghosh disagree with you. And they seem to have more experience with Israel than you do.

 

[Kirran]

I am still eager to understand: @Godobeyer and @FearGod - how many people were killed in the Holocaust? It will be helpful to see the extent of your understanding of this very important aspect of the background of the State of Israel.