An honest question for women ...

[Madhuri]

To conclude, I see some of what you experience. Women who want to establish a relationship prior to sex are overlooked in favor of those willing to have it right away.

And men, what is your preference? Would you have sex with someone without knowing them? Would you bypass a woman you like in favor of someone who would have sex?

Thanks Songbird, good post. And great question for the guys.

 

[Madhuri]

Most women will make the claim you are making, and then fall head over heels for a real jerk of a guy. I don't think women consciously seek out jerks, I just think that they unconsciously find them more attractive for some reason. If I had a dime for every time I have heard a woman claim to only like nice guys, but proceed to date only jerks...!

I think Darkness has a good response to this. Generally it isn't the jerkiness of a person that is attractive, but other qualities that comes across like self-confidence and a fun personality. I've met a lot of nice guys who are unstimulating (aka boring). But there are also nice guys with great engaging personalities and confidence, and these guys do get with great women.

 

[Madhuri]

I have to agree with Madhuri on this one. It is not that I think men are biologically predetermined to be dicks, but our patriarchal culture has conditioned the majority of men to be dicks. I have trouble forming friendships with other males, because the majority of them act in a chauvinist manner, which ****** me off. I am also frustrated when women buy into the chauvinist narrative, but it does not cause me to dislike them; it is more of a pity emotion.

Describe what you mean by old fashioned. It sounds like it could be a synonym for "boring"; no offense intended. I would argue that in addition to jerks being "confident," that jerks are typically more playful and more of a challenge, which is very attractive to many women.

Yep, absolutely my experience and observation.

 

[Darkness]

Darkness I haven't forgotten how you have had issues with men.....then again not insinuating on your sexual orientation but it crossed my mind, so I can understand why you agree with Madhuri. So, to explain the concept of "old fashioned" since you conviniently forgot or failed to read, was that typical American old fashioned is a man who opens doors, brings roses, pays the bill on the first date, etc

Edit:

Again not insinuating anything (or intentionally not to), I just recalled you some while ago that "all men are (use explicit language here) and upon further questioning you said that you were going through something. I made it a point to bring it up to show you why I think you agree with Madhuri. Anywho, Jacksnyte offered a really good reason.

I am doing a lot better than I was. I cannot remember said that all men are (insert explicit language here), but I do not really believe that. I love my brother and I have at least three close male friends (including Panda) whom I really care for and think are good men. If I offended you I am sorry. Even though we disagree on many issues, I have come to enjoy reading your posts and am discovering that you seem like a pretty decent person.

 

[Father Heathen]

And men, what is your preference? Would you have sex with someone without knowing them? Would you bypass a woman you like in favor of someone who would have sex?

Cheap and easy sex is degrading for both parties. It displays a lack of responsibility and respect their partner and themselves.. I think sex is supposed to be personal and intimate - along with physical gratification it should have also emotional meaning. It's an act of giving yourself to someone, and to readily give yourself to someone of questionable character or to a complete stranger shows a lack of class and dignity. It's hard for me to respect someone who would treat their own body as something to be used and discarded.

 

[Madhuri]

Cheap and easy sex is degrading for both parties. It displays a lack of responsibility and respect their partner and themselves.. I think sex is supposed to be personal and intimate - along with physical gratification it should have also emotional meaning. It's an act of giving yourself to someone, and to readily give yourself to someone of questionable character or to a complete stranger shows a lack of class and dignity. It's hard for me to respect someone who would treat their own body as something to be used and discarded.

Absolutely. And yet that kind of sex pervades our contemporary western culture.

 

[Vendetta]

I am doing a lot better than I was. I cannot remember said that all men are (insert explicit language here), but I do not really believe that. I love my brother and I have at least three close male friends (including Panda) whom I really care for and think are good men. If I offended you I am sorry. Even though we disagree on many issues, I have come to enjoy reading your posts and am discovering that you seem like a pretty decent person.

Not to sound like a douche but no apologies needed since I have very very few friends here and that (with the exception of Bismillah and Ritalin who I greatly respect) effected my few on life. Do I still think women like jerks? Yup. Do women gravitate towards jerks? Yup. Do I feel sorry? Nope.

I know plenty women like Madhuri who are in her position. It has nothing to do with geography its simply a circumstantial

 

[Nerthus]

... especially women who complain that they're being sexually objectified. Would you mind if a good-looking person were to objectify you? Are you offended only when ugly people do that?

Just an honest question.

I personally do not like anyone I don not know doing that to me. Good looking or not changes, nothing for me. Even the best looking people can be ugly for holding this kind of attitude. I am a person, not a sexual object!

 

[MissAlice]

I absolutely refuse to believe that!

Haha you make me blush.

 

[Erebus]

As a general rule, humans are idiots regardless of gender

Reading through this thread I can see exactly where both genders are coming from, I have a few male friends who treat women like **** (not always intentionally either) and these are the guys who get the most girls. I've had to give these guys a friendly beating every once in a while to bring them in line and I would love to do the same to the girls who sleep with them. It always starts with the girl being warned about them, then sleeping with them, then getting upset, then being told "well what did you expect? I've warned you, other people have warned you, you've seen him act like a **** yourself and you still slept with him."

I don't know exactly why, but girls gravitate towards guys who are narcissistic, rude and ill educated. It's only a few guys who aren't actually like this and only a few girls who don't find scum irresistible. If you fall in this special category you're doomed to frequent disappointment, but are one of the few people able to experience an actual relationship with somebody.

 

[Madhuri]

Harsh truth, Shy.
I wish I knew why guys and girls act this way. I can't find the logic at all.

 

[Erebus]

Harsh truth, Shy.
I wish I knew why guys and girls act this way. I can't find the logic at all.

I honestly hope that what I said is wrong, but so far it doesn't seem to be (that's the price of being right about everything )

I also hope you find somebody who deserves you Madhuri.

 

[Songbird]

I want to clarify my post from last night.

Most men aren't jerks, and most women don't go for jerks. The example of the band was fresh in my mind and it bothered me for some reason.

This view is very dependent on age. The college-age scene seems more jerk-centered, but my single friends in their late 20s see a different landscape as their demographic shifts to more career and family-oriented lifestyles. There are fewer fish in the pond, fewer chances to behave recklessly, and I've heard people say a number of times, "Eh, I did the party scene when I was younger. Now I want to meet someone special."

 

[doppelganger]

Males are doing what they've been programmed to do. What's to be disappointed about with that? It's how we all got here, isn't it?

Heterosexual males tend to have very strong visual cues for archetypal female forms - not coincidentally the ones associated with fertility and child-rearing - wide birthing hips (which are accentuated by a small waist) and large breasts for nursing.

Meanwhile, heterosexual women tend to be attracted to men who exhibit power, which is associated with the ability to provide for her and her offspring. On a base level that means big muscles and aggressiveness. But women can be and are enculturated to associate that archetypal drive with signs of social power - money, possessions and political status, and to types of "looks" that signal a person likely to be widely accepted in social reality unrelated to his physical abilities. Giving birth is an enormous risky proposition for a human female - both in terms of risks to her own immediate well-being and the commitment of time and resources that will be required of her to sustain her children.

Perhaps a woman is offended when a man lacking the right masculine traits approaches her because it triggers her own insecurities and fears - hence, this response is a defense mechanism. If unattractive males are approaching her, isn't it likely that there will be a feeling that something about her is limiting her ability to attract the kind of mate she needs and a corresponding need to control this self-injurious feeling? While attention from a man that meets her mostly subconscious requirements for a mate reinforces her feelings that she is herself a suitable mate?


Just some thoughts.

 

[doppelganger]

Most men aren't jerks, and most women don't go for jerks.

Warning: I'm about to speak in generalizations. This is not always the case, but from my own observation and experience is usually the case . . .

When they are young and ready for mating, women tend to go for jerks. As they get older and realize that sexual attraction isn't permanent and the drive for companionship shifts from caring and raising young to the needs of middle and old age, this gives way to the search for someone "special."

 

[Songbird]

Warning: I'm about to speak in generalizations. This is not always the case, but from my own observation and experience is usually the case . . .

When they are young and ready for mating, women tend to go for jerks. As they get older and realize that sexual attraction isn't permanent and the drive for companionship shifts from caring and raising young to the needs of middle and old age, this gives way to the search for someone "special."

Yes. And you said it much better than I did.

Jerk.

 

[doppelganger]

Yes. And you said it much better than I did.

Jerk.

Nice guys finish last . . . until they reach about 40 years of age.

Then we get the task of helping someone cope with the damage of the fathers, boyfriends and husbands of their youth.

 

[Sunstone]

My observations have been a little different, perhaps. I'd say the kind and quality of relationship a woman had with her primary care-givers while she was growing up -- and not her gender -- is the single biggest determinant of whether she will be attracted to jerks later on in her life.

 

[doppelganger]

My observations have been a little different, perhaps. I'd say the kind and quality of relationship a woman had with her primary care-givers while she was growing up -- and not her gender -- is the single biggest determinant of whether she will be attracted to jerks later on in her life.

I agree with that as well. That's why I included fathers on that list.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Nice guys finish last . . . until they reach about 40 years of age.

Then we get the task of helping someone cope with the damage of the fathers, boyfriends and husbands of their youth.

Assuming they, of course, have already coped with the damage of the mothers, girlfriends, and wives of their youth. Otherwise, they're no help to anyone. Although, I'm sure it's appealing to play the part of the savior.