Ancient and Modern Creation Stories

[Aupmanyav]

To me "heaven" is the celestial area all around the Earth and on both hemispheres. No we are not talking geography as "locations ON the Earth", but what then do you mean about the location of the "Netherworld" or "Underworld" if this isn´t a geographical realm? And how do you you define mythical "demons"?

I think it is a fine description of the Milky Way "spotted by lights" on its dark background. I still find it plausible to interpret Sarama to represent the "milky (way) river".

Can there be cultural overlapping of deities who are the same?

"But if an express passage be still needed to prove conclusively that the region below the earth was known to the Vedic bards, we refer to VII, 104, 11, where the bard prays for the destruction of his enemies and says, “Let him (enemy) go down below the three earths (tisrah prîthivih adhah).” Here the region below the three earths is expressly mentioned; and since the enemy is to be condemned to it, it must be a region of torment and pain like the Hades. In X, 152, 4, we read, “One who injures me, let him be sent to the: nether darkness (adharam tamah).”

Comparing this with the last passage, it is evident that the region below the earth was conceived as dark. In III, 73, 21, we have, “Let him, who hates us, fall downwards (adharah),” and in 11, 12, 4, the brood of the Dasyu, whom Indra killed, is said to be “sent to the unknown nether world (adharam guhâkah).” These passages directly show that region below the earth was not only known to the Vedic bards, but was conceived as filled with darkness, and made the scene of India’s tight with Vṛitra. It may, however, be alleged that “below the three earths” may simply mean underneath the surface of the earth. But, in that case, it was not necessary to speak of all the three earths, and since we are told that the region is below all the three earths, it can refer only to the nether world.

This is further proved by the passage which describes what is above the three earths. The expression, corresponding to tisrah prîthivih adhah or “the region below the three earths,” will be tisrah prîthivih upari or the region above the three earths,” and as a matter of fact this expression is also found in the RigVeda. Thus in I, 34, 8, we are told that “the Ashvins, moving above the three earths (tisrah prîthivih upari), protect the vault or the top of heaven (divo nâkam) through days and nights”; and Ashvins are said to have come on their car from a distant region (parâvat) in the preceding verse of the same hymn. The phrase divo nâkam occurs several times in the RigVeda and means the top or the vault of the heaven. Thus in IV, 13, 5, the sun is said to guard (pâti) the vault of the heaven (divo nâkam); and as regards the threefold division of the earth it is mentioned in several places in the RigVeda (I, 102, 8; IV, 53, 5; VII, 87, 5), and also in the Avesta (Yt. XIII, 3; Yasna, XI, 7)." Ref: "Arctic Home in Vedas", BG Tilak

(Note: BG Tilak's two books "Arctic Home in Vedas" and "Orion or the Antiquity of Vedas" are beautiful books on the subject. The passages that I quote are mostly from these books. The passages have excellent and detailed references, as you see from the above description. The books also have good information on Avestan mythology and comparative European mythology. I highly recommend the books. Both books are available in PDF form at Archives.org.)

Yes, Greeks, Avesta as well as RigVeda describe the Dogs (Canis Major and Canis Minor) as spotted (yellow, golden, zaritem), but this is not the description of the Milky Way as a whole. BTW, the name Akashaganga is a very late development, the Aryans did not know Ganges when they were in Central Asia. As I have already mentioned, their beloved river was Saraswati. And Sarama, the divine female dog was never the Milky way. Kindly read the article in Wikipedia (Sarama - Wikipedia). I do not know how you got latched to the idea to mix a female dog to Milky way?

There is an astounding similarity between the Vedic myths in India, the Avestan myths and the European myths. After all, they all belonged or were influenced by the same culture. My interest is primarily restricted to the Vedas.

 

[gnostic]

???

Are you commenting on your own mythical restrictions here?

Because some ignorant scholars have no clues of the mythical and cosmological extend of the myths. That´s why!

Because Hathor and the Cow both resembles the Milky Way in different cultural periods, remember? Now you can yourself guess which symbol of light she holds between the cow horns.

You keep forgetting that any deity can have many attributes and many appearances, not just the one you stubbornly believe in.

You keep insisting that she has only one role.

I am not denying her aspects as the cow goddess or that of the Milky Way. But she is also the mother goddess, fertility goddess, the goddess who assist the departed soul, the sky goddess...and yes, she is also sun goddess.

Yes, she can appear as a cow, but she is also the lioness or the Eye of Re.

All you are doing is confining her to only specific role.

She can have many roles, just as Re, Nut, Tefnut, Horus, etc.

Apparently you studying comparative mythology have left you ignorant and biased. Pathetic in any author’s book.

And you still haven’t provided a single piece of evidence.

All you are doing is just interpreting, and interpreting it how it your illogical belief.

 

[Aupmanyav]

LINK LINK LINK

but then again, we´ll have troubles of describing the sun transported in the day Sky by golden horses and a golden chariot etc. An imagery and scenario which cannot be seen on a daytime when the sun is shining.

Since this deals with astronomical issues, which part does the "titan" represent in your mind?

Nearly every God in the Vedas is said to be 'the creator of the world'. The Vedic hymns are 'Richas' (praises), and when the Vedic bards praised their Gods, they did not worry if another poet had called another God in a previous hymn as the creator. All are supremely mighty (Asuras), one better than the other. They are all golden, tawny-haired, riding golden chariots, drawn by golden horses. Do not get confused if you see more than one God being called the creator. No problem at all, when else sun would be golden if not during the day in mid-summer in a sky bereft of clouds?

"The etymological origin of rucha/richa is the Sanskrit word, ruc/ric (ऋच्), which means to praise.": Richa - Wikipedia

If the sun did not appear in the sky during the long cold dark Arctic night, what else would one think other than this being caused by a demon equally strong having abducted the sun and imprisoned it somewhere? Vritra too is called as an 'Asura' (mighty). 'Vritra' literally means 'the enveloper'. Such a demon was Vritra in the Vedas (other demons too, e.g. Vaala), Azi Dahak in Avesta. Other Indo-European mythologies too have the stories of darkness overcoming light for a period of the year.

 

[Native]

I am not denying her aspects as the cow goddess or that of the Milky Way. But she is also the mother goddess, fertility goddess, the goddess who assist the departed soul, the sky goddess...and yes, she is also sun goddess.

No I´ve already told you and told you why that she CANNOT be a "sun-goddess" and do you further on now why not?
In a dark night when you can see the Milky Way, you cannot even see the Sun! Also in this way it is impossible to make a solar connection.

Try to use your natural senses when you talk about astronomical issues and go out and look for yourself instead of accepting confused scholars who also have their noses in books instead of on the real astronomical facts.

 

[Native]

First:
Regarding you said above:
Sarama, the divine female dog was never the Milky way. Kindly read the article in Wikipedia (Sarama - Wikipedia). I do not know how you got latched to the idea to mix a female dog to Milky way?

We are still dealing with "How the Milky Way was made" aren´t we? I took informations of "milk" and "(holy)cows" as related to the Milky Way. And as she is a female figure she hardly cannot represent just a star in Canis Major. One star cannot describe or resemble a female form.

Nearly every God in the Vedas is said to be 'the creator of the world'. The Vedic hymns are 'Richas' (praises), and when the Vedic bards praised their Gods, they did not worry if another poet had called another God in a previous hymn as the creator. All are supremely mighty (Asuras), one better than the other. They are all golden, tawny-haired, riding golden chariots, drawn by golden horses. Do not get confused if you see more than one God being called the creator. No problem at all, when else sun would be golden if not during the day in mid-summer in a sky bereft of clouds?

I´m not worried about reading of different deities even if they have similar or almost similar attributes. This can also be caused by having different names for the same deity over cultural period, so I´m aware of this.

Besides this, I´m also aware that different stages in the creation process of transformation, deities of creation are related to each other but describing the ongoing process of transformation with different names.

Besides the Sun as a source for the Golden attributes, I also can think of the Milky Way light as a source for this Golden attributes. In fact when i read of the mentions deities in my 3 links and their connection to the creation story, I´m more inclined to make this connection til the Milky Way to the source.

Further on: Having the sun connected to a golden chariot drawn by horses, is very contraintuitive. No one can observe such a scenario in the day Sky. This is an impossible connection.

But what about the "titan" question I asked above? What is a titan in your opinion?

 

[gnostic]

No I´ve already told you and told you why that she CANNOT be a "sun-goddess" and do you further on now why not?
In a dark night when you can see the Milky Way, you cannot even see the Sun! Also in this way it is impossible to make a solar connection.

Try to use your natural senses when you talk about astronomical issues and go out and look for yourself instead of accepting confused scholars who also have their noses in books instead of on the real astronomical facts.

You don’t understand the Milky Way, PERIOD. I am talking about astronomy, not myths here.

What we see is only a very tiny portion of the Milky Way, and its centre is the Galactic Centre.

Since the ancient Egyptians (as well as the Babylonians, Greeks and Chinese) can only see the Milky Way on clear night, without telescope, they could only see so far.

I recalled that you keep telling me, that Re is not the sun god, but light and centre of the Milky Way, so Re is not the “sun”. So you assume Re as the Milky Way centre, creating the solar system, which therefore include the Sun.

Plus, here is a kicker, perhaps something will click in your brain after being kicked in the head.

And with the naked eyes, we can only see individual stars that within the 6000 light years. Beyond 6000 light years, the more distant stars are invisble to us.

The centre of the Milky Way or Galactic Centre is about 27,000 light years.

The Egyptians have no way of viewing this centre.

What the Egyptians could see are some visible stars and cloud of interstellar gas and dust from the Sagittarius spiral arm.

The “centre” cannot be seen, PERIOD. Even if any of the Egyptians had the sharpest eyes and clearest eyes, they would only see the stars and dust that are visible to us, but they could never see the Galactic Centre or the central bulge.

Yes we see the Milky Way, but only partially and what is blocking our way from seeing the centre is the band of stars and of gas and dust is the Sagittarius Arm. It is the “spiral arm” in which all the ancient people described as the the river of “milk” (or “silver” as the Chinese astronomers called it).

Without radio telescope, the centre of the Milky Way cannot be seen. Without the radio telescopes, you could not possibly locate the centre. (The radio source of where the centre is located is in the vicinity of Sagittarius A.)

So your flimsy claim that Re is the “centre” of this Milky Way is nothing more than ignorant anachronism on your part, since the Egyptians couldn’t have seen the Galactic Centre.

Your claim that Egyptians could see the central bulge or its galactic centre, is based on your own faulty knowledge on Egyptian astronomy and on modern astronomy. The problem is that you are trying to mix current knowledge with ancient knowledge of astronomy, and that’s nothing more than anachronism.

It is you who have no astronomical “sense”, Native.

The question is, can you admit your mistake? Can you learn from it? Or are you going to continuously use anachronistic claims of what you think the Egyptians know?

 

[Native]

You don’t understand the Milky Way, PERIOD. I am talking about astronomy, not myths here.

Can you come to agreement with yourself what you are talking about? We have just used lots of time dealing with the myths of Hathor and Re/Ra/Amun-Ra and the complex family relationship and now you want to discuss astronomy and cosmology all of a sudden?

And when looking at the sentences you STILL are mixing it all up with both myths and astronomical and cosmological issues?

Just this: You can come back in the Milky Way matter when modern cosmology themselves have understood the Milky Way without adding and using metaphysical "dark matter" as explanation of how the rotation curve in the Milky Way works.

I´ve spend enough time on you for now.

 

[gnostic]

Just this: You can come back in the Milky Way matter when modern cosmology themselves have understood the Milky Way without adding and using metaphysical "dark matter" as explanation of how the rotation curve in the Milky Way works.

Again with strawman.

Can you not be honest with what you are reading, Native, without making up things that I didn’t say or write?

No where in my reply did I ever mention “dark matter”, Native. Not once.

All I did mention were stars and cloud of “interstellar dust and gas” on the spiral arm that can be seen, not “dark matters”.

Dust, Native. Interstellar dusts and interstellar gas, Native, not “dark matters”. You would see dust all the time, in any nebula.

The spiral arm of Sagittarius is what blocking our path of seeing the galactic centre. And that arm carried stars, star clusters, nebulae, and yes, gas and dust.

Are you going to apologise for misreading my reply?

I doubt that you ever will, because you are too egotistic and ignorant.

As to the myth of Hathor and Re. The ancient astronomers couldn’t have know about the Milky Way have a galactic centre, because the Egyptians wouldn’t have seen it.

You are basing your knowledge, knowing there is a centre, on the Egyptians who knew nothing about it. That’s anachronism, Native. It isn’t the Egyptians who using anachronism; no, it is bloody you.

 

[gnostic]

I´ve spend enough time on you for now.

That’s funny.

I have wasted too much time on you.

When you mixed modern knowledge of the Milky Way, with Egyptian myths, that’s okay, according to you.

But when I talk of modern astronomy and Egyptian astronomy/myths, it isn’t okay.

You are the who bloody claimed that ancient Egyptians knew more about astronomy and cosmology than modern scientists. You have been claiming the modern scientists being more ignorant than the Egyptians.

But when I talk about Re cannot be the Centre of the Milky Way, because no one could see the centre, but now you don’t want to talk about Re and centre.

Talk about double standard and moving the goalposts.

 

[gnostic]

Very much like that. The only difference is that Indra/Thraetona/Herakles and the various Irish/Celtic/Norse/Germanic/Slavic mythical personages did not have to labor each day of the year to fight the demons/serpents/Titan. They did it once in a year. So, one myth is from sub-Arctic regions which had the more frightening long, cold, dark Arctic night; and other is from temperate regions.

"Keep off the she-wolf and the wolf, O Urmya, keep the thief away; Easy be thou for us to pass."
Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 10: HYMN CXXVII. Night. (Hymn to Night, RigVeda)

View attachment 24227 View attachment 24226
Pictorial representation of the RigVedic belief about the long Arctic night.

Interesting.

Of course, there are bound to be differences between the Egyptian and Hindu stories, of heroes fighting off demons, whether it took place every night or only once a year.

And yet, the similarities are striking.

I am more familiar with Egyptian culture than I am with Hindu lores.

 

[Aupmanyav]

We are still dealing with "How the Milky Way was made" aren´t we? I took informations of "milk" and "(holy)cows" as related to the Milky Way. And as she is a female figure she hardly cannot represent just a star in Canis Major. One star cannot describe or resemble a female form.

But what about the "titan" question I asked above? What is a titan in your opinion?

Sarama is not Dog Star (Sirius). She is the mother of Dog Star (Shvāna) and Procyon (Vena). In one myth, she was the cause of Milky way by vomiting the milk that Panis gave her after being kicked by Rudra. I think I have already answered the Titan question in my post Ancient and Modern Creation Stories.

 

[Aupmanyav]

The spiral arm of Sagittarius is what blocking our path of seeing the galactic centre. And that arm carried stars, star clusters, nebulae, and yes, gas and dust.

"The Galactic Center is marked by an intense radio source named Sagittarius A* (pronounced Sagittarius A-star). The motion of material around the center indicates that Sagittarius A* harbors a massive, compact object. This concentration of mass is best explained as a supermassive black hole (SMBH) with an estimated mass of 4.1–4.5 million times the mass of the Sun. The rate of accretion of the SMBH is consistent with an inactive galactic nucleus, being estimated at around 1×10−5 M☉ y−1. Observations indicate that there are SMBH located near the center of most normal galaxies."

Illustration of the two gigantic X-ray/gamma-ray bubbles of the Milky Way (center)


Milky Way - Wikipedia

You can come back in the Milky Way matter when modern cosmology themselves have understood the Milky Way without adding and using metaphysical "dark matter" as explanation of how the rotation curve in the Milky Way works.

There is nothing metaphysical about Dark Matter (85% of all matter in the Universe) or Dark Energy (68.3% of the total energy in the universe). They are Physics.
Dark matter - Wikipedia, Dark energy - Wikipedia

 

[gnostic]

"The Galactic Center is marked by an intense radio source named Sagittarius A* (pronounced Sagittarius A-star). The motion of material around the center indicates that Sagittarius A* harbors a massive, compact object. This concentration of mass is best explained as a supermassive black hole (SMBH) with an estimated mass of 4.1–4.5 million times the mass of the Sun. The rate of accretion of the SMBH is consistent with an inactive galactic nucleus, being estimated at around 1×10−5 M☉ y−1. Observations indicate that there are SMBH located near the center of most normal galaxies."

Illustration of the two gigantic X-ray/gamma-ray bubbles of the Milky Way (center)

Milky Way - Wikipedia

I don’t think Native completely understand that no cannot see the galactic centre of the Milky Way with the naked eye, whether it be today or in the distant past.

What people actually see was only a tiny fraction of the Milky Way, and with the spiral arm (Sagittarius arm) blocking the view of the centre, no can directly see galactic bulge.

So how can Native claim that Egyptian god Re be the central light of the Milky Way, when no Egyptians could possibly see the centre?

Native claiming that the Re is the centre is nothing more than anachronistic claim.

As your wiki article indicated, astronomers can only be detected the location of the centre through radio telescope aimed at the vicinity of Sagittarius A.

This spiral arm contained stars, star clusters and clouds of gases and dust (similar to interstellar medium of nebulae). And this is why the centre cannot be seen.

Even with a powerful optical telescopes cannot view the centre, so how could any ancient astronomer view the centre.

 

[Aupmanyav]

So how can Native claim that Egyptian god Re be the central light of the Milky Way, when no Egyptians could possibly see the centre?

Since I have hardly any knowledge of the ancient Egyptian beliefs or methods, I will leave that to you and Native restricting myself to Indo-Europen myths.

Sarasvati and the cycle of water in nature:

"The nether world was, so to say, the seat or the home of these waters, called 'yahvatîh' or the eternal (IX, 113, 8) and they formed the kingdom of Varuna (Ouranos) and Yama, as well as the hidden (ninya) abode of Vṛitra. This movement of waters is very clearly expressed in the Parsi scriptures. In the Vendidad, XXI, 4-5 (15-23), the waters are described as follows, - “As the sea VouruKasha (the Zoroastrian equivalent of Netherworld) is the gathering place of waters, rise up, go up the aerial way and go down on the earth; go down on the earth and go up the aerial way. Rise up and roll along! thou in whose rising and growing Ahura Mazda made the aerial way. Up! rise up and roll along! thou swifthorsed sun, above Hara Berezaiti, and produce light for the world, and mayest thou rise up there, if thou art to abide in Garo-nmânem (world of men), along the path made by Mazda, along the way made by the gods, the watery way they opened.”

Here the aerial waters are said to start from their gathering place, the sea VouruKasha, go up into heaven and come back again to the sea to be purified before starting on a second round. Prof. Darmesteter in a note on this passage observes that “waters and light are believed to flow from the same spring and in the same bed”, and quotes Bundahish, XX, 4, which says, “just as the light comes in through Albûrz (Hara Berezaiti, the mountain by which the earth is surrounded) and goes out through Albûrz, the water also comes out through Albûrz and goes away through Albûrz.” Now waters are described in the RigVeda as following the path of the gods (VII, 47, 3), much in the same way as the waters in the Avesta are said to follow the path made by Mazda or the way made by the gods. Like the Avestic waters, the waters in the RigVeda have also the sea for their goal, and going by the aerial way eventually fall into the mouth of Varuna.

But the Avesta supplies us with the key which establishes the connection of waters and light in unambiguous terms, for, as remarked by Prof. Darmesteter, it states clearly that both of them have the same source, and, in the passage quoted above, the swift-horsed sun is accordingly asked to go along the watery way in the skies above. In the Aban Yasht (V, 3), the river Ardvi Sûra Anâhita is described as running powerfully from the height Hukairya down to the sea VouruKasha, like the river Sarasvati, which is described in the RigVeda as tearing the peaks of mountains, and is invoked to descend from the great mountain in the sky to the sacrifice (V, 43, 11). Both are aerial rivers, but by coming down upon the earth they are said to fill up all the terrestrial streams. The terrestrial waters, nay, all things of a liquid nature on the earth, e.g., the plant-sap, the blood, &c., were thus supposed to be produced from the aerial waters above by the agency of clouds and rain.

The Parsi scriptures further tell us that between the earth and the region of infinite light (the parame vyoman of the RigVeda), there are three intermediate regions, the star region, which has the seeds of waters and plants, the moon region, and the sun region, the last being the highest (Yt. XII, 29-32). When the RigVeda, therefore, speaks of the highest rajas as being the seat of waters, it is not to be understood, as supposed by Wallis, that there are no nether waters, for it is the nether waters that come up from the lower world and moving in the uppermost region of the heaven produce terrestrial waters by giving rise to rain and clouds. Thus Ardvi Sûra Anâhita is said to run through the starry region (cf. Yt. VII, 47), and has to be worshiped with sacrifice in order that her waters may not all run up into the region of the sun, thereby producing a drought on the surface of the earth (Yt. V, 85 and 90).

In the RigVeda, the Sarasvatî is similarly described as filling the earthly region and the wide atmospheric space (VI, 61, 11) and is besought to come swelling with streams, and along with the waters. But the most striking resemblance between Ardvi Sûra Anâhita and Sarasvatî is that while the latter is described as Vṛitra-slayer or Vritra-ghnî in RigVeda VI, 61, 7, Ardvi Sûra Anâhita is described in the Aban Yasht (V, 33 and 34) as granting to Thrâetaona, the heir of the valiant Athwya clan (Vedic Trita Âptya) who offered up a sacrifice to her, a boon that he would be able to overcome Azi Dahâk, the three-mouthed; three-headed and six-eyed monster. This is virtually the same story which is found in the RigVeda X, 8, 8, where Trîta Âptya, knowing his paternal weapons and urged by Indra, is said to have fought against and slew the three-headed son of Tvashtṛi and released the cows.

This clearly establishes the connection between waters, as represented by Ardvi Sûra Anâhita or Sarasvati, and the slaughter of Vṛitra. Many Vedic scholars have tried to identify Sarasvati with the river of that name in the Punjab; but as the latter is an insignificant stream, the identification has not been generally accepted. The above comparison now shows that the mighty Sarasvati, like Ardvi Sûra Anâhita, is an aerial stream, which rises up from the nether storehouse of ‘waters, travels over the sky and again falls back into the lower ocean. A portion of these waters is brought down upon the earth in the form of rain by the sacrifices offered to the river, and along with it come the seeds of all the plants growing upon the surface of the earth. Thus in the Vendidad, V, 19, (56), the tree of all the seeds is described as growing in the middle of the sea VouruKasha, and the seeds are then said to be brought up by the aerial rivers and sent down by them to the earth by means of rain, an idea similar to that found in the RigVeda, I, 23, 20, where the sacrificer informs us that Soma has told him that all medicines (medicinal herbs) are contained in the waters. We have thus a complete account of the cosmic circulation of the aerial waters and the production of the terrestrial waters and plants there from."
BG Tilak, "Arctic Home in Vedas", page 247

 

[Aupmanyav]

The sun does travel by a boat (as per Homer) when it crosses the watery netherworld from after setting in the West to rise again in the East.

"In connection with this, it may be here observed that the Ashvins are described in the RigVeda as saving their protégés in boats (I, 116, 3; I, 182, 6), and that though Ashvins’ boats are not described as golden, their chariot is said to be hiranayayî or golden in VIII, 5, 29; while the boats of Pûshan, in which he crosses the aerial ocean (samudra) are actually said to be golden in VI, 58, 3. In I, 46, 7, the Ashvins are again spoken of as having both a chariot and a boat, as a sort of double equipment*; and their chariot is said to be 'samâna yojana', or traversing, without distinction, both the heaven and the watery regions in I, 30, 18. The word samâna is meaningless unless there is some difficulty in traversing over one part of the celestial sphere as distinguished from the other.The Vedic gods used these boats especially, in crossing the lower world, the home and seat of aerial waters; and when they appeared above the horizon, they are described as traversing the upper sphere by means of their chariots."
BG Tilak, "Arctic Home in Vedas", page 255.
* Amphibious vehicles.

You see, we have a big advantage in India. The IE tradition that came to us is nothing that has to be revived or resurrected from a few tablets like the Epic of Gilgamesh or the Eddas. Even the Avestan tradition was hugely modified by Zoroaster and later the Iranian Zoroastrians. IE in India is a living tradition even today, assiduously preserved in words as well as sound. The way a word or a sound has to be uttered is clearly established. Hundreds of thousand students study it every year and millions live it in their life. We know all the nuances of the prayers, rituals, God ideas and philosophy.

 

[Native]

Again with strawman.

You were talking of "understanding the Milky Way" and I just returned this statement in order to underline how little modern scientists understand the Milky Way - and on this poor account, you cannot play the clever one and judge me for not understanding the Milky Way.

Your strawman argument is just a method of discussing what is up and what is down.

 

[Native]

The centre of the Milky Way or Galactic Centre is about 27,000 light years.
The Egyptians have no way of viewing this centre.
What the Egyptians could see are some visible stars and cloud of interstellar gas and dust from the Sagittarius spiral arm.
The “centre” cannot be seen, PERIOD. Even if any of the Egyptians had the sharpest eyes and clearest eyes, they would only see the stars and dust that are visible to us, but they could never see the Galactic Centre or the central bulge.
Yes we see the Milky Way, but only partially and what is blocking our way from seeing the centre is the band of stars and of gas and dust is the Sagittarius Arm. It is the “spiral arm” in which all the ancient people described as the the river of “milk” (or “silver” as the Chinese astronomers called it).

You cannot compare what our ancestors observed by their naked eyes to what modern science can observe via telescopes! Just go out and use you own eyes and see how our ancestors imagined and described the Milky Way in different symbols. Then you also would have observed the central luminous part (Re) of the Milky Way.

Furthermore you also would have understood the myths themselves.

 

[Native]

You have been claiming the modern scientists being more ignorant than the Egyptians.

No! I rather claim modern cosmological scientists to be somewhat ignorant compared to the Egyptians and our ancestors in general.

 

[Native]

Sarama is not Dog Star (Sirius). She is the mother of Dog Star (Shvāna) and Procyon (Vena). In one myth, she was the cause of Milky way by vomiting the milk that Panis gave her after being kicked by Rudra. I think I have already answered the Titan question in my post Ancient and Modern Creation Stories.

Sarama "In one myth, she was the cause of Milky way by vomiting the milk . . " shows me right when stating Sarama to be a Milky Way Goddess, doesn´t it?

 

[Native]

I don’t think Native completely understand that no cannot see the galactic centre of the Milky Way with the naked eye, whether it be today or in the distant past.
What people actually see was only a tiny fraction of the Milky Way, and with the spiral arm (Sagittarius arm) blocking the view of the centre, no can directly see galactic bulge.
So how can Native claim that Egyptian god Re be the central light of the Milky Way, when no Egyptians could possibly see the centre?

I´ve already explained this to you above. You cannot compare technical observations to our ancestors naked eye observations. If you want to undestand the ancient myths you have to watch the Sky for yourself and THEN study the myths and see how they made their explanations and their symbolism.

Our ancestors saw the celestial images as we see these today and at the same time they got spiritual informations of how the creation in our galaxy works. Compared to this way of getting knowledge, modern cosmological science is hopelessly left behind in all kinds of speculations and selfmade problems.