..and not a drag queen among them.

[Father Heathen]

I’m honestly sometimes a little shocked when someone shows me what American culture deems as “sexual.” Since it seems rather tame and something I would have seen on a kids show over here.
I’m not sure if this is the infamous “prudish nature” peaking through or what.

Can we agree that drag shows involving children should not be sexualised? Sure, I can agree with that.
But I don’t know if you and I have the same limits to what we consider sexualised.
Like as a kid I was watching the Rocky Horror Picture Show. Is that suitable for children? No. But it didn’t like scar me or anything
I do think the movie is likely rated a lot higher in the states though. Here it’s just a mere M rating (our equivalent of a PG13, basically.)

Like I said, sexualisation tends to differ wildly between cultures. Western culture is no different

They've censored some 'Bluey' episodes here in the U.S. for very silly prudish reasons.

I think sheltering children does far more harm than being exposed to things that are ultimately innocuous.

 

[YmirGF]

I have. I have even been backstage. It didn't come across as "sexualized" or "sexy"; it was a gender-exaggerated performance.

Well, you are a sociologist. The ones I have seen live there is no way kids could be present. I bet you didn't notice the rampant drug use either did you?

 

[SomeRandom]

I see him as a straight comedian who dressed in drag. I do not see him as a drag queen. From my experience, there is a big difference between straight men "dragging up" and gay men "dragging up". Humphries saw himself as a women when in character, but that ended when he took the outfits off. In other words, it was purely and hilariously performative. Gay drag is a lot darker and raunchy. I suppose gay drag could be turned down but I have seen multiple videos now (of drag queen story hours) that were pretty disgusting and I don't think anyone who knows me or my history could possibly call me a prude.

Oh I see. I think I’m seeing where the disconnect may be:
I’m conflating the terms “drag” and “drag Queen.”
Probably because that’s how I use the terms in normal parlance.
It’s common for us Aussies to be a little bit lazy with our language. My apologies.

 

[Orbit]

Well, you are a sociologist. The ones I have seen live there is no way kids could be present. I bet you didn't notice the rampant drug use either did you?

There was lots of drug use in L.A., especially in the performance art/drag circles that I was peripheral to. Maybe I just went to a "tame" show.

 

[YmirGF]

Do adult gay clubs typically admit children?

Actually I was allowed in when I was 16. I knew the bouncers.

 

[SomeRandom]

They've censored some 'Bluey' episodes here in the U.S. for very silly prudish reasons.

I think sheltering children does far more harm than being exposed to things that are ultimately innocuous.

I have heard a couple of stories about that. But I think even my baby niece laughed at how “silly” they were being lol

 

[YmirGF]

There was lots of drug use in L.A., especially in the performance art/drag circles that I was peripheral to. Maybe I just went to a "tame" show.

WOW you agreed with my drug comment. I remember years ago a drug dealer I was friendly with commented how he loved his gay clients because they sure loved their drugs. Drugs are party fuel... and the party NEVER ends...

 

[Debater Slayer]

Well, you are a sociologist.

What does being a sociologist have to do with that?

 

[Orbit]

What does being a sociologist have to do with that?

We end up in strange places, researching subcultures and the like.

 

[YmirGF]

What does being a sociologist have to do with that?

Orbit understood the context. It was meant more tongue in cheek.

 

[Debater Slayer]

As a gay man who is well aware of the nature of drag and is fairly familiar with the so-called history of drag, I am hard pressed to understand how any non-gay person could support this type of nuttery. As an armchair linguist, I am also more than aware of how beneficial reading is to children, That is a no-brainer. My comment above of what's next is on point. Where do we begin to label behaviors as being degenerate? Is there even a line anymore that is too extreme. I'm beginning to have my doubts.

Drag is a specific type of crossdressing. It's sexualised, that's the point. Wtf do you guys drag is? It's not just another word for crosssdressing.

How is this the same as Mrs Doubtfire?

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I think most of us would probably agree on this, but there seems to be an issue of different terminology here. I think a question could be useful: do we all agree that non-sexualized cross-dressing, which some would call "drag," is fine for children to see whether on TV or in libraries but sexualized cross-dressing, which some would also call "drag," absolutely isn't fine for children to see anywhere?

 

[Father Heathen]

I have heard a couple of stories about that. But I think even my baby niece laughed at how “silly” they were being lol

Australian children seemed to have survived being exposed to the deviancy of Bluey.

 

[SomeRandom]

Australian children seemed to have survived being exposed to the deviancy of Bluey.

Pfft, that’s because we’re not a bunch of pansies. We have to survive snakes and all manner of venomous spiders. A blue dog committing to a bit (including cross dressing) to appease his daughters is the last thing of concern

 

[YmirGF]

I think most of us would probably agree on this, but there seems to be an issue of different terminology here. I think a question could be useful: do we all agree that non-sexualized cross-dressing, which some would call "drag," is fine for children to see whether on TV or in libraries but sexualized cross-dressing, which some would also call "drag," absolutely isn't fine for children to see anywhere?

I am uncomfortable with this since the advent of the idea that a man can literally become a woman. My view is that this is designed to further erode formerly conventional sexual norms. Can't we just let kids be kids? Why do we have to expose children to adult fetishes?

 

[Debater Slayer]

I am uncomfortable with this since the advent of the idea that a man can literally become a woman. My view is that this is designed to further erode formerly conventional sexual norms. Can't we just let kids be kids?

Non-sexualized cross-dressing performances have been around for centuries, though, such as in performances of theater. They predate many of the current sexual norms by a significant amount of time, and now science also tells us that gender dysphoria is caused by factors that are unrelated to cross-dressing or performances thereof. Where would the link be between said performances and anything related to a "man literally becoming a woman," as you put it?

Also, in your view, can gendered norms that are considered conventional at one point evolve or not? That has happened many times throughout history, so I don't think further evolution in that area would be surprising or unusual for any culture.

Why do we have to expose children to adult fetishes?

In my post that you responded to, I premised my question on the agreement of most people that children shouldn't see any sexualized performances, which would include any fetish-based ones. I'm talking about non-sexualized cross-dressing right now, which I don't think is a problem in entertainment contexts.

 

[Secret Chief]

I’m honestly sometimes a little shocked when someone shows me what American culture deems as “sexual.” Since it seems rather tame and something I would have seen on a kids show over here.
I’m not sure if this is the infamous “prudish nature” peaking through or what.

Can we agree that drag shows involving children should not be sexualised? Sure, I can agree with that.
But I don’t know if you and I have the same limits to what we consider sexualised.
Like as a kid I was watching the Rocky Horror Picture Show. Is that suitable for children? No. But it didn’t like scar me or anything
I do think the movie is likely rated a lot higher in the states though. Here it’s just a mere M rating (our equivalent of a PG13, basically.)

Like I said, sexualisation tends to differ wildly between cultures. Western culture is no different

There does seem a particularly vocal segment of pearl clutchers in the US.

 

[SomeRandom]

There does seem a particularly vocal segment of pearl clutchers in the US.

Can’t disagree.
I associate them with the Church Lady from is it SNL?

 

[Secret Chief]

Can’t disagree.
I associate them with the Church Lady from is it SNL?

 

[Father Heathen]

Pfft, that’s because we’re not a bunch of pansies. We have to survive snakes and all manner of venomous spiders. A blue dog committing to a bit (including cross dressing) to appease his daughters is the last thing of concern

There does seem a particularly vocal segment of pearl clutchers in the US.

Religious conservatives, particularly.

 

[SomeRandom]

Religious conservatives, particularly.

Actually I’m forcibly reminded of something that was hugely popular among my friends when we were kids, which is tangentially related to this discussion. Sort of lol

The Disney film Mulan (I’m talking the animated version. The live action version is dead to me lol.)
Not only did that show off the upper body of Shang for a long time (which would be sexualising, would it not?)
But that film had a woman crossdressing and quite literally pretending to be a man for like 3/4 of the movie.
Part of me wonders if that movie (the animated version) was released today, what ire it would draw. For being “woke” for demeaning men (I know it doesn’t, but I can see folks interpreting it that way) and indeed for having what is essentially a crossdressing female pretending to be male. Transgender propaganda, if you like.




As an aside, it does still amuse me that Shang is somewhat relieved to find out Mulan is a woman. Like he was actually not gay after all lol