Esteban X
Active Member
By observing the phases of the moon.
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Another irrefutable proof that God created all things using mathematical induction. And a proof that The Bible is the word of God.
- Thread starter SavedByTheLord
- Start date
joelr
Well-Known Member
The consensus in cosmology is 13.5 billion years old.
There is evidence in the cosmic microwave background that at one point it was smaller than a particle. The large scale background radiation reflects quantum fluxuations that were made large by rapid expansion.
The first proof was the WMAP experiment in the 80s.
Unknown. There many be many big bangs, infinite?
This is standard information in cosmology.
Ch 26 explains WMAP and the age of the universe
joelr
Well-Known Member
They are not "laws" of nature, nature works with symmetry, limitations, probabilities, mathematics is effective at describing the behavior of natural processes so we call them laws but they are descriptions of how things work in a mathematical way.
We don't know much about the concept of before the big bang because it's hard to study.
We do know that it doesn't prove Zeus, Brahman or Yahweh, at all.
We do know that Yahweh is a typical Mesopotamian, Near Eastern deity in the first 5 books of the OT and did most of the same things his other deities did. The sea monster story is a direct take from Baal who is an older myth.
Everything about the NT is either Persian or Graeco-Roman, Jesus is the last of the mystery cult saviors.
So we have good explanations of those legends.
Not understanding pre-big bang physics doesn't make Mesopotamian/Greek/Persian myths true, even when blended with a Israelite mythology.
We also understand the Israelite people from archaeology and DNA. Both confirm they are from Canaan, not Egypt and scripture does not describe the Israelite folk religion but rather is an elitist perspective from around 600 BCE.
SavedByTheLord
Well-Known Member
One, the laws of nature are indeed laws, even the evolutionists call them that.
Of course all those nobodies are nobody, except Yahweh the God of the Bible.
And of course, the Bible is the actual true record.
The knowledge is what I find as the importance rather than dna/lineage.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
You do not even know what laws of nature are. They are not evidence for a God. If you understood them you could see that.
OK... the law (commandment) of no false witness/accuse..... do you accept that as a rule for your life?
SavedByTheLord
Well-Known Member
Kelly of the Phoenix
Well-Known Member
It’s not because of hawks that love to make life miserable for people so much so that they turn to terrorists to save them, but the terrorists are just as bad.
Agreed...... for example, falsely accusing is wrong.
Your grandiosity is rivalled only by a recent American president.
You've proven nothing to anybody, and several have told you just that. They reject what you call proof, which makes your claim of proving incoherent and self-refuting. Proof is that which convinces just as humor is that which makes one laugh. Your claim of proving without changing any minds is equivalent to a comedian thinking he's funny without making anybody laugh.
Nobody was convinced by you. But some seem to be laughing a little.
Here's you implied ignorantium fallacy ("if you can't answer my questions, your beliefs must be wrong and therefore mine correct") combined with some special pleading ("and this only applies to you, not me).
There's no evidence that free will exists or even can. What we likely have is the illusion of free will. That's anathema to Abrahamists, whose god allegedly punishes people for their choices.
Did you mean the god of Abraham? You like proof, right? Science has ruled out the universe being created in six days, that there were ever first humans, or that a global flood occurred. The god said to have done those things doesn't exist.
Evolution doesn't make living creatures.
There is no burden of proof with any other person either unable to evaluate an argument for soundness or unwilling to change his mind in presence of such an argument. Burden of proof is misnomer, as we don't actually have to prove anything, just convincingly demonstrate, but that is reserved for discussions between competent critical thinkers engaging in dialectic - the cooperative effort to resolve differences of fact using a specific method for evaluating evidence. If one doesn't know and respect those rules, then there is no possibility of sound, evidenced argument changing his belief set - the definition of closed-mindedness and typical of those under the sway of a faith-based confirmation bias. Such a person cannot be shown he is wrong when he is, so why bother trying?
“Water is two parts hydrogen and one part oxygen. What if someone says, "Well, that's not how I choose to think about water."? All we can do is appeal to scientific values. And if he doesn't share those values, the conversation is over. If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?” - Sam Harris
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McBell
Unbound
STILL waiting for the Bible verses that support this claim.
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Kelly of the Phoenix
Well-Known Member
It’s weird when pagan texts had more accurate information than the Bible. I guess that’s what happens when Yahweh is insulted by intelligence and pagans had Gods and Goddesses of learning.
Kelly of the Phoenix
Well-Known Member
Yeah, God told me that the Bible is wrong.Shame so many got a different message though.
Kelly of the Phoenix
Well-Known Member
Yeah I can’t seem to find Hamas in there at all.
SavedByTheLord
Well-Known Member
And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. - Luke 21:20
McBell
Unbound
Extremely lacking on both the details and the when...
Far cry from your claim of:
"For starters, the attack on Israel is Biblical prophecy fulfilled with exact timing and details."
SavedByTheLord
Well-Known Member
Of course it is.
The fact that after all these years Israel is a nation again or that the Jews have held both their ethnic and religious identify is also predicted and quote frankly amazing.
McBell
Unbound
So what exactly makes THIS TIME the fulfillment of the prophecy?
Is it simply because it is obvious all the other times weren't?
SavedByTheLord
Well-Known Member
Exact timing of the prophecies from the Bible explained.
The Bible predicts many things that must happen in the last days. All these are predicted to happen from about 2000 to 3500 years ago. Not only were they predicted to happen in some indeterminate future but in a in our time.
Now to understand this exact timing, you must understand how they all line up and build up. The easiest way is by an analogy. There is a path. A person decides to walk along that path. This is analogous to the first prophecy coming true. For example, knowledge is increased in the last days. Knowledge has taken off and in increasing rapidly. That may have come true about 100 years ago. But it is still increasing rapidly, so it is still true. Is it exact timing? Yes, to the exact 100 years but even until this very day. This is the equivalent to the first person continuing his walk along the path. As another prophecy comes true, that is the equivalent to a second person joining the first person walking along the path. As each prophecy comes true, another person joins in this walk along the path until there are many walking along together.
First to establish the timing consider the following.
God created man by a direct act and not through evolution from lower life forms. This is clear from the following passages.
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. - Gen 1:26-27
7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. – Gen 2:7,21-23
The age of the earth is easily determined from the Bible, which is the true word of God. In Genesis 1, it is clear that God created all things, including the earth, the universe, the sun, the moon, the stars, all life and of course Adam and Eve on the 6th day. To determine the age of the earth, extensive genealogies are given along with the age at which each father begat the named sun. Historical kings are mentioned in the book of Daniel and elsewhere in the Old Testament. The command to rebuild the temple and the 70-week prophecy in Daniel gives 70x7=490 yrs. The Biblical precept of a day is a year is found in Numbers where the Israelites were punished to wander 40 years in the desert, a year for each day since they spied out the land of the Canaanites and did not believe what God could do.
Usher and Isaac Newton followed the same logic, and both determined the earth to have been created about 6000 years ago. There are others who have done the same thing. All the logic, all the real science and all the facts also confirm that the earth and everything in it is about 6000 years old.
Light is created early on the first day and separated from darkness. Thus, there is directional light from the very beginning. This is even before the sun is created on the 4th day. Directional light plus a rotating earth gives night and day. Thus, the days below are very close to 24 hrs. That is shown by the 6x “the evening and the morning” are used. The ordinal count of days also proves that these are 24-hour days.
5 … And the evening and the morning were the first day. 8 … And the evening and the morning were the second day. 13 And the evening and the morning were the third day. 19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day. 23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day. 31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. Gen 1:5,8,13,19,23,31
God created all things in 6 days. He did it, knows how it was done and knows when it was done. So, God’s eyewitness testimony is 100% true. All supposed “science”, which disagrees, is therefore false. God spoke with His mouth 2x and wrote with His finger 2x the following. By the way Christ may have written the 10 commandants with His finger in the sand. He certainly used that to teach as it says “all taught of God” in John 6:45.
1 And God spake all these words, saying, 11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. - Exo 20:1,11
17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed. 18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God. - Exo 31:17-18
And the tables were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God, graven upon the tables. - Exo 32:16
And the Lord said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest. - Exo 34:1
The Lord Jesus Christ, who created all things in 6 days about 6000 years ago, was there, did it and knows when it happened. The following 4 passages shows that Jesus Christ believed in 6-day recent creation. Many times throughout the Bible, creation, the fall, Cain and Abel, and the flood are spoken as real events.
4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, 5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? - Matt 19:4-5
6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. 7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; 8 And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. 9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. - Mark 10:6-9
As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: - Luke 1:70
50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation; 51 From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation. - Luke11:50-51
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: - Rom 1:20
A man names Henry Morris, a creation scientist, said that if you deny 6-day recent creation, you will also have to deny the worldwide flood in Noah’s day. The Atheistic Origin “Scientists” with there no God assumption will just not allow God, period. See the topic “Don’t be conned with the no God Assumption of Atheistic Origin Science”.
Almost all the sedimentary layers with their fossils are the result of the worldwide flood during the time of Noah, which occurred about 4500 years ago. A real scientific study of those layers proves it. There are many other scientific proofs of recent creation.
One last point is needed. The Bible gives a timeline for the time between creation and the creation of a new heaven and a new earth. It is 7000 years. The 1000 years reign of Christ is yet to come. It comes after the pre-trib rapture and the almost 7-year tribulation. The 6-day creation, which is 6 consecutive 24-hour days is also actually a prophecy and gives the timeline. Peter wrote:
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. – 2 Peter 3:8
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: - 2 Peter 3:5-6
Now the word of God says:
Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets. – Amos 3:7
So, God reveals things to His prophets who wrote it done. All the Bible is written as prophecy (see 2 Peter 1:22).
So, God cannot rapture His church and bring tribulation unless He revealed it to His prophets who wrote it done. In fact, all the Bible is lit up with fulfilled prophecy of things that must be just before the rapture. The amazing thing is not even that all these things were prophesied to happen but to happen at exactly our time. You see any can say man will have increased knowledge in some indeterminate future time. But the exact timing is given by scripture written about 2000 to 3500 years ago. The exact timing is given by the 6000-year age of the earth and the timeline given by the Bible. This is just another great proof that the Bible is the very true word of God Almighty. God Himself gave that as a proof in the Chapters Isa 41-47.
22 Let them bring them forth, and shew us what shall happen: let them shew the former things, what they be, that we may consider them, and know the latter end of them; or declare us things for to come.23 Shew the things that are to come hereafter, that we may know that ye are gods: yea, do good, or do evil, that we may be dismayed, and behold it together.24 Behold, ye are of nothing, and your work of nought: an abomination is he that chooseth you. – Isa 41:22-24
So now, in our very time, all these things should be coming to pass. As Christ said:
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh 33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. – Matt 24:32-33