Anti-gay baker now takes stand against birthdays for trans people

[ecco]

If, IMHO, you could force an artist to make whatever you desired than I would expect a pediophile to be able to order a cake celebrating little ten year old Jimmy's deflowering...just sayin'.

Did you somehow miss that pedophilia is illegal and being transsexual or gay or atheist is legal?

If I were and "artistic" baker in the hypothetical you posed, I would tell the pedophile that I would indeed bake his cake just as he requested and that he could pick it up Thursday at 10:00 AM. Then I would notify the police and have them standing by Thursday at 10:00 AM.

Do you have any more nonsensical analogies you'd care to post?

 

[BSM1]

He makes custom cakes in a wide range of styles for some people and not others.

The shop's web site tells customers that they can "choose from any of our many flavors, frostings, and fillings" and says that "if you can think it up, Jack can make it into a cake!"

MASTERPIECE CAKESHOP | great cakes since 1993 | 303.763.5754

Apparently he's happy to make these offers to the general public, but not to LGBTQ people.

Asking for a cake of a customer-chosen specific colour, iced with frosting of another customer-chosen specific colour, is completely in line with what they normally offer.

This is not the same as you refusing to play a specific song for anyone.

But you and I both know this is not what was asked for.

 

[BSM1]

Did you somehow miss that pedophilia is illegal and being transsexual or gay or atheist is legal?

If I were and "artistic" baker in the hypothetical you posed, I would tell the pedophile that I would indeed bake his cake just as he requested and that he could pick it up Thursday at 10:00 AM. Then I would notify the police and have them standing by Thursday at 10:00 AM.

Do you have any more nonsensical analogies you'd care to post?

Got your attention, didn't it?

 

[Subduction Zone]

I'm not sure your understanding my post. I know I'm not understanding yours.

He understood your post. He explained why your analogy failed. The baker makes birthday cakes for others, by refusing to making one for a person that is trans he shows an illegal bias, by Colorado law at least.

 

[Subduction Zone]

But you and I both know this is not what was asked for.

I thought that a cake was ordered. What do you think was asked for that did not fit under the given categories?

 

[ecco]

Did you somehow miss that pedophilia is illegal and being transsexual or gay or atheist is legal?

If I were and "artistic" baker in the hypothetical you posed, I would tell the pedophile that I would indeed bake his cake just as he requested and that he could pick it up Thursday at 10:00 AM. Then I would notify the police and have them standing by Thursday at 10:00 AM.

Do you have any more nonsensical analogies you'd care to post?

Got your attention, didn't it?

Yeah. But you didn't post it to get my attention did you?

 

[Subduction Zone]

He makes custom cakes in a wide range of styles for some people and not others.

The shop's web site tells customers that they can "choose from any of our many flavors, frostings, and fillings" and says that "if you can think it up, Jack can make it into a cake!"

MASTERPIECE CAKESHOP | great cakes since 1993 | 303.763.5754

Apparently he's happy to make these offers to the general public, but not to LGBTQ people.

Asking for a cake of a customer-chosen specific colour, iced with frosting of another customer-chosen specific colour, is completely in line with what they normally offer.

This is not the same as you refusing to play a specific song for anyone.

Jack would have made the cake if he did not know that it was for a trans person. When he knew who and what it was for it somehow "crossed the line" according to Jack. For example a mother of fraternal twins, one boy and one girl could have ordered just such a cake and he would have been fine with it.

 

[Jainarayan]

Many religions have prohibitions against supporting people whom conflict with their beliefs

What is it about transgender that violates a religious principle, specifically Christian?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

But you and I both know this is not what was asked for.

But it is: read the article.

Last June, on the same day the Supreme Court decided to take up his case, a women named Autumn Scardina asked Masterpiece Cakeshop to make a cake that was blue on the outside and pink on the inside. She told employees it was to celebrate her birthday and the seventh anniversary of when she came out as transgender.

Their "flavours, frostings and fillings" page says that they have cherry cake as a standard offering. The blue icing on cakes in their Yelp gallery tells me that at least one type of blue icing is covered in the "and more!" under the icing types they can do.

Again: this is exactly in line with what they normally offer.

 

[Jainarayan]

Apparently, Christians forget about that whole Matthew 7:1 thing, but the OT specifically prohibits gay and trans-sexual behaviors. We could argue that their refusal is following their religion to a tee, so for me that puts it out of the realm of court decisions and whatever.

It also forbids poly/cotton blends, shellfish and bacon double cheeseburgers. Now, I've gotten the retort "but in Acts ... Jesus said no food is unclean". Okie-fine, but he also said not one jot or tittle of the Law would be erased until Heaven and Earth pass away. So that means poly/cotton blends are still an abomination, as are planting peppers, tomatoes and squash in the same field. Millions of Italians (Catholics no less! ) are on the express to hell. My point is the cherry-picking and hypocrisy many "Christians" exhibit.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

What do you try to explain to me?
Do you think I am wrong in my thinking somewhere?

You do seem confused and missing my points.

Do you think you know better than I when it comes to my feelings/conscience?

No; I just think your particular feelings are irrelevant here. Nobody forced that baker to bake cakes for trans people because nobody forced him to bake cakes at all.

 

[Subduction Zone]

What is it about transgender that violates a religious principle, specifically Christian?

Old Testament law, of course if they site that then if the people wear polyester, or even a leather belt with blue jeans they have broken another biblical law and that would make them hypocritical.

 

[Jainarayan]

Old Testament law, of course if they site that then if the people wear polyester, or even a leather belt with blue jeans they have broken another biblical law and that would make them hypocritical.

My point exactly.

 

[columbus]

But you and I both know this is not what was asked for.

Yes it was.
Here's the quote:
"if you can think it up, Jack can make it into a cake!"
Tom

 

[stvdv]

You do seem confused and missing my points.
No; I just think your particular feelings are irrelevant here. Nobody forced that baker to bake cakes for trans people because nobody forced him to bake cakes at all.

No I am not confused. I don't miss your points. I see some other points also.

 

[Mindmaster]

It also forbids poly/cotton blends, shellfish and bacon double cheeseburgers. Now, I've gotten the retort "but in Acts ... Jesus said no food is unclean". Okie-fine, but he also said not one jot or tittle of the Law would be erased until Heaven and Earth pass away. So that means poly/cotton blends are still an abomination, as are planting peppers, tomatoes and squash in the same field. Millions of Italians (Catholics no less! ) are on the express to hell. My point is the cherry-picking and hypocrisy many "Christians" exhibit.

Thankfully, it's not our duty to sort out the contradictions in their faith but whether they cherry pick our not is up to them in my view.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No I am not confused. I don't miss your points. I see only some other points also.

What points?

The bottom line for me is that someone who isn't forced to make cakes at all can't be forced to make cakes for any particular event/person/whatever. If there's a conflict here, it's a conflict with the cake maker's personal wishes and maybe with his financial interests, not with his conscience.

He could keep his conscience completely intact and not break any law by just closing or selling his shop and going into a different line of work. That other work might not be as lucrative and he might not enjoy it as much, but the option is always open to him.

 

[Mindmaster]

What is it about transgender that violates a religious principle, specifically Christian?

Nothing specifically Christian, however, technically the OT applies to them. In the OT there are prohibitions against behaving as the opposite sex and that applies to women and men. So by extension, depending on how militant the follower is about the book they're justified in such practices as refusing to have dealings with those sort of people.

However, don't shoot the messenger here. Obviously, I have nothing but despise for the entirety of Christian religion and the religion it branches from. I feel they are at odds with fundamental human nature and are an abomination themselves. I dial that back a bit though, I don't blame the followers whom have been hoodwinked into placing their trust in such things by others.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Thankfully, it's not our duty to sort out the contradictions in their faith but whether they cherry pick our not is up to them in my view.

If we give religious exemptions to secular laws, then it's going to be our duty (or rather, the duty of the courts acting on our behalf) to sort all that out.

Personally, I don't want secular courts ruling on what is and isn't "proper" Christianity, but the way to avoid doing that is to just make everyone follow the same laws.

 

[BSM1]

Yes it was.
Here's the quote:
"if you can think it up, Jack can make it into a cake!"
Tom

Doesn't he has to...or am I missing something? I refer back to my purposely disgusting pediophile cake.