Any Downside to Atheism?

[Smoke]

it is true that if you are an athiest you don't know God. fact. you admit that you don't know God and the only way to know that he exsist is to have just a little bit of faith and it will prove it to you.

I used to have faith. Ultimately, though, it proved nothing.

 

[Smoke]

well if you are a christian you are suppose to witness to others out of compassion.

I don't know how to explain to you how arrogant and presumptuous it seems, though. I know you mean well, but do you honestly think I've never been witnessed to before? Is there anybody in America who is lucky enough to have evaded Christian missionaries all his life?

It seems presumptuous on so many levels. The presumption that the reason I don't follow your religion is that I'm just ignorant, and I need some Christian to explain it to me so I can understand. The presumption of the witness that even though hundreds of Christians have witnessed to me before, somehow he will be the magic Christian who is really an effective witness. The presumption that your god, who supposedly loves everybody and wants the world to be saved, is not capable of drawing people to himself without the help of self-important witnesses. It seems to me that by "witnessing" the witness manages simultaneously to disrespect not just the person being witnessed to, but also his own co-religionists and even his god.

St. Seraphim of Sarov advised Christians to "acquire the spirit of peace, and a thousand souls will be saved around you." What's "witnessing" worth compared to that?

 

[Smoke]

I'm trying to picture an Atheist's funeral. You all do have them right?

Not always, but then, Christians don't always have them, either. The Midwestern side of my family believes in getting the dead into the ground with a minimum of fuss, even to the extent of having no wake and no funeral if that's the way the deceased wanted it.

When my friend Mike died, everybody went to his house to sit with his widow and talk about him. It was sad, but there was a lot of joking and laughter, too. Mike left a lot of funny memories. After he was cremated, we had a larger gathering -- a party, really -- where we ate and drank and sang and shared memories and told stories about Mike. It was nice.

 

[Kerr]

Picture the situation.
6billion people will die within my life time.
With no one in charge...chaos...total chaos.
Why? too many differences...too much baggage...too much nay saying....
For peace...some sorting will need be done.

In this world there is greater and lesser ability.
Crossing over depends on that.
If you don't believe...how can you perform the 'stand-up'? (no joke)
And who wants to keep company with naysayers?

Pain and suffering has been dealt unto me....to the extent I could not feel the pain. Yes it's true. There are levels of pain that great.
But my thoughts did not cease.
My feelings did not stop.
How far can it go? All the way into dying.
There is no cause to say death is final.

Just to be fair.

A boss I worked for once proclaimed to be an atheist, having been a deacon for his congregation.
So I said to him...
"Bill, aren't you the guy that takes the dangerous work unto himself, sending me after safer things to do?...yes.
Bill, aren't you the guy that takes the responsibility for the actions of the people working under you?....yes.
Bill, don't you do unto others as you would have them do unto you?...yes

"The angels will not ignore you.
But your denial will earn you a good slap up side of your head.
I hope it goes no further than that."

And to be fair, you are talking about a being that is supposed to be all powerful here... you can place all the excuses you want on not letting the "nay-sayers" go on living, but if he is truly all-powerful none of those are an issue. Which tells a lot of the character of him.

 

[Alceste]

Not always, but then, Christians don't always have them, either. The Midwestern side of my family believes in getting the dead into the ground with a minimum of fuss, even to the extent of having no wake and no funeral if that's the way the deceased wanted it.

When my friend Mike died, everybody went to his house to sit with his widow and talk about him. It was sad, but there was a lot of joking and laughter, too. Mike left a lot of funny memories. After he was cremated, we had a larger gathering -- a party, really -- where we ate and drank and sang and shared memories and told stories about Mike. It was nice.

When my grandfather died, we held a "celebration of life" for him. There was a service with some speeches, anecdotes, music (I wrote a song for it), and a very small amount of religious jibber jabber from a minister. After that, there were more anecdotes, snacks, drinks, etc. He was cremated and his ashes are buried at the summer cottage he built, marked by a little solar powered lantern.

I'd be happy with all that minus the religious jibber jabber. It was really un-necessary, frankly, and nobody appreciated it much. My grandfather was much loved and very well known by the people at the ceremony - the minister hardly knew him and his stock funeral speech seemed very out of place. (Not just to me, either.)

 

[ragordon168]

I'm trying to picture an Atheist's funeral. You all do have them right?

define funeral.

i dont know about anyone else but for me, you could throw my body in the rubbish (not like id need it anymore) all the money some spend on the funeral would go towards a huge party and everyone would get so wrecked they forget why they are there and arent sad anymore.

well if you are a christian you are suppose to witness to others out of compassion. a christian is suppose to want to help others find God so they have eternal life as well.

i had to sit through that in primary school, a vicar coming once a week to speak to the school, hymns and xmas trips tto the church. i didnt want to go (hardly anyone did) but was not given a choice as i had no "religious objection" to it. to be forced to take part in christian rituals is not witnessing out of compassion it is shovingit down peoples throats im afraid.

 

[Thief]

but how will you prepare?
i see my words fall before blind eyes. to you, you were right from the beginning; ignorance is bliss yet as a wise man pennamed Voltair once told :

None so blind as those who will not see.

Another way of saying there are two levels of ignorance.
First level...uniformed...lacking perspective.
Second level...profound...as the practitioner refuses...and chooses to ignore.

 

[Thief]

And to be fair, you are talking about a being that is supposed to be all powerful here... you can place all the excuses you want on not letting the "nay-sayers" go on living, but if he is truly all-powerful none of those are an issue. Which tells a lot of the character of him.

You got that backwards.
Your lack of faith speaks of YOU....not Him.
Your lack of faith does nothing for you.

And with 6billion other possibilities....how can you stand out?
Why choose a nay sayer for 'good' company.
Much easier to keep proximity with people that believe in you.

 

[Kerr]

You got that backwards.
Your lack of faith speaks of YOU....not Him.
Your lack of faith does nothing for you.

And with 6billion other possibilities....how can you stand out?
Why choose a nay sayer for 'good' company.
Much easier to keep proximity with people that believe in you.

Wrong. He can do whatever he likes, if he decides faith is important it is, if he decides it does not matter it doesn´t. So, why not decide faith doesn´t matter and look at peoples actions instead? Why should a christian child molester have eternal life when someone without faith that is actually a good person can´t? Only a tyrant would have such priorities, and I not sure it is better to worship him then to simply stop existing.

 

[Magic Man]

None so blind as those who will not see.

Another way of saying there are two levels of ignorance.
First level...uniformed...lacking perspective.
Second level...profound...as the practitioner refuses...and chooses to ignore.

Indeed. Now, I'll wait for the light bulb to go on and for you to realize who really needs to take heed of this. I won't hold my breath, though.

 

[Cobblestones]

Originally Posted by Cobblestones
I just don't see a downside.

I'm trying to picture an Atheist's funeral. You all do have them right?

Well, first off, the dead don't attend their own funerals. Funerals are for the living.

Secondly, some of us have "wakes" in the Irish tradition. I once read about a woman whose husband died at the age of 75 and they had a wake that "he really would have enjoyed" and so ten years later on her 85th birthday she held a wake for herself with all the booze and people eulogizing her. Personally, I think that's absolutely the coolest way to go about it.

 

[Magic Man]

Well, first off, the dead don't attend their own funerals. Funerals are for the living.

Secondly, some of us have "wakes" in the Irish tradition. I once read about a woman whose husband died at the age of 75 and they had a wake that "he really would have enjoyed" and so ten years later on her 85th birthday she held a wake for herself with all the booze and people eulogizing her. Personally, I think that's absolutely the coolest way to go about it.

I've often said that the worst part about a wake or after-funeral party is that the dead person doesn't get to be there. They can be great parties, and I'd love to be at my own. So, good for that woman.

 

[Autodidact]

I realized why Kimberlee feels attacked and upset, and why she has probably left the thread.

Jesus fulfills two important emotional needs for her. She feels loved, all the time, by the most important person in the world, and she believes she is not afraid of dying, because Jesus will give her eternal life.

When you say there is no God, you're telling her that she is not loved, at least not by Jesus, and she is going to die. Those ideas are very upsetting to her.

It's not abstract; it's personal and emotional.

 

[Cobblestones]

I realized why Kimberlee feels attacked and upset, and why she has probably left the thread.

Jesus fulfills two important emotional needs for her. She feels loved, all the time, by the most important person in the world, and she believes she is not afraid of dying, because Jesus will give her eternal life.

When you say there is no God, you're telling her that she is not loved, at least not by Jesus, and she is going to die. Those ideas are very upsetting to her.

It's not abstract; it's personal and emotional.

You are probably right. Isn't most of our time used in creating the illusion of security? Chaos and our own impotence is hard to accept.

 

[Anti-thesisofreason]

"Is there or is there not a god?"

Someone please explain to me why the answer to that question matters.

Is there any real demonstrable negative to not acknowledging god (hint: stories of hell and eternal damnation are not demonstrable)?

I can be kind, loving, selfless, and charitable all on my own. It is simply a matter of choosing to act out such characteristics. I can enjoy my membership in social organizations without having to imbibe any religious teachings.

What are the negative consequences to atheism? I just don't see a downside.

The way I see it there are benefits and drawbacks to most anything.
In a way some atheists are no different in action and attitude than some extreme religionists.

 

[Thief]

Wrong. He can do whatever he likes, if he decides faith is important it is, if he decides it does not matter it doesn´t. So, why not decide faith doesn´t matter and look at peoples actions instead? Why should a christian child molester have eternal life when someone without faith that is actually a good person can´t? Only a tyrant would have such priorities, and I not sure it is better to worship him then to simply stop existing.

Too many incorrect assumptions on your part.
Do unto others as you would have it done unto you.
No exceptions.
Your fate is in your hands.
Your lack of faith is not His fault.

 

[Luminous]

the odd thing about ur illogical statement is that Kerr never assumed anything. assumtion requires faith, just like faith requires assumption. the only assumption kerr made in the statement was that u were wrong. and that "he can do whatever he likes".

 

[Thief]

That...does not lessen my argument.

 

[Luminous]

yet part of ur argument is that he "incorrectly" assums too much. therefore you imply that u assume less and therefore ur probably right. its a very reasonable argument, if it was true. however since such things are yet unknown, both of you assume about the same. you assume It will do what u think and he assumes It will do whatever it likes.

 

[Magic Man]

That...does not lessen my argument.

Maybe not, but the incomprehensible nature of your posts definitely does lessen your argument, whatever it is.