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Any Downside to Atheism?

MSizer

MSizer
But you see, I can fully express my Christianity to a dying child and in the process make that child feel especially loved, wanted and that his/her life has purpose and meaning. Not just an accident nor a roll of the dice. The atheist really speaks in terms of what isn't expessed, not said, or even lies to not upset the dying child.

But that doesn't necessarily make it a good thing. The cat is out of the bag now. It's completely immoral to perpetuate myth and superstition for the reason that it makes some people feel good. It also causes 18 year old boys to go overseas and sacrifice themselves thinking that what they're doing is right, when in fact it's a shameful loss of life with arguably questionable benefits to anyone. The veil of superstition had it's place, but we know too much now. If humanity wishes to abolish suffering and become more morally enlightened, the it's time to turn to rational thinking and informed decision making now, not dogmatic belief. (now in the case of a little girl on her deathbed, of course that's exceptional, but only because there's no time for her to become enlightened at that point).
 
If I am forced to use your underlying assumptions (no heaven/hell), then you're probably right - there is no downside. Moreover, atheists probably have a lot more worldly fun here on earth. As the Apostly Paul said, if the dead are not raised, eat and drink for tomorrow we die. If, however, there is a heaven/hell (which I believe to be true), the table to which MSizer refers in his post will not be so much fun afterall.

There is another option to your dualistic scenario of hedonism on the one hand and asceticism on the other. There can be a middle path where one simply eats, drinks and behaves in a generally moderate manner..not because a god tells them to or to ensure a heavenly reward but simply because they have learned from experience that such a life is the most beneficial and most rewarding way to live (kind of the message of Buddhism).

When one lives a life of kindness, moderation and simplicity, one gets the rewards here and now without reference to a possible hereafter.

Why would one choose to believe in a heaven or hell without any verifiable evidence? Why not go ahead and assume the existence all manner of strange and fantastic realms, dimensions and other worlds? Perhaps Robert Heinlein's whimsical notion would then be correct: Anytime someone thinks of another world, it is then automatically created.
 

Humanistheart

Well-Known Member
"Is there or is there not a god?"

Someone please explain to me why the answer to that question matters.

Is there any real demonstrable negative to not acknowledging god (hint: stories of hell and eternal damnation are not demonstrable)?

I can be kind, loving, selfless, and charitable all on my own. It is simply a matter of choosing to act out such characteristics. I can enjoy my membership in social organizations without having to imbibe any religious teachings.

What are the negative consequences to atheism? I just don't see a downside.

I think the negative side of atheism is merely a social one, which will change as atheists numbers grow. There are a lot of misconceptions and stereotypes for those who do not believe in a god. Although, someone probably mentioned this, while countries with higher levels of organic atheism are far healthier socities in almost every respect, the noticable exception is in the suicide rate of males (why females were not mentioned in the stats I don't know, but would be curious to find out) but this is not neccessarily a causal situation.

http://www.pitzer.edu/academics/faculty/zuckerman/Ath-Chap-under-7000.pdf
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
There is another option to your dualistic scenario of hedonism on the one hand and asceticism on the other. There can be a middle path where one simply eats, drinks and behaves in a generally moderate manner..not because a god tells them to or to ensure a heavenly reward but simply because they have learned from experience that such a life is the most beneficial and most rewarding way to live (kind of the message of Buddhism).

When one lives a life of kindness, moderation and simplicity, one gets the rewards here and now without reference to a possible hereafter.

Why would one choose to believe in a heaven or hell without any verifiable evidence? Why not go ahead and assume the existence all manner of strange and fantastic realms, dimensions and other worlds? Perhaps Robert Heinlein's whimsical notion would then be correct: Anytime someone thinks of another world, it is then automatically created.


We need a thread for that idea!!!!!!
 

Erebus

Well-Known Member
1. I think it's incorrect to marry personal practices to atheism. For the most part, i should call those incidental.



2. Sure...but that's by no means an atheistic stance; i don't see how atheism "naturally" insinuates or leads to very many ethical conclusions, for example.

For example, it's likely the very rare cause that's going to rally much support just because there's no god. Get down to it, it's not very sexy.

From a secular standpoint, an atheist may be highly unlikely to be very sympathetic to religious causes for their own sake, but incidental views and priorities come into play for how one aligns themselves with causes and ideologies.

While a religious shorthand allows one to say they behave in such and such a way because "god wants me to", any behaviour can be mirrored, any practiced aped without fear of contravening some atheistic mantra or dogma. None is provided, and little foundation is really offered to build on. Personal ideologies, in my view, are not often well described as principly atheistic.



3. Bear in mind, that's very far being just an atheistic standpoint, here. The majority of the religious frequently label each other foolish for not sharing each others views. The atheist merely distinguishes him/herself by having a much easier time of it.

1. Of course. Notice that my only criticism of atheism is that I find it boring, the other points were aimed at certain atheists themselves.

2. In normal circumstances I would agree, however recently I've seen atheism spouted with fanatical fervour on too many threads. There does seem to be a particular "brand" of atheism that would perhaps be better off being given its own title and considered a religion in its own right.

3. I don't think much of theists forcing their ideas upon others either.
 

Cobblestones

Devoid of Ettiquette
Lucky me has a flat in Manchester and family in Derbyshire, I get the best of both worlds ;)
I'm not saying that a person needs Gods to appreciate the world, I'm just saying that to me personally, no belief in deities s more boring than belief in deities. I iknow a lot of people have the exact opposite viewpoint and this is perfectly fine. It all comes down to "what works for you?" :)
OK. I can buy that. Thanks for clarifying.
 
If we are going to insist on believing in deities (and to continue Shyanekh's line about fighting boredom), let's bring back the gods from the good ole days. Remember when they had the bodies of people and the heads of animals? Away with this "God is Spirit" twaddle. How about a Lionheaded god with a sexy body and laser eyes? Think about the church signs!
 

Erebus

Well-Known Member
If we are going to insist on believing in deities (and to continue Shyanekh's line about fighting boredom), let's bring back the gods from the good ole days. Remember when they had the bodies of people and the heads of animals? Away with this "God is Spirit" twaddle. How about a Lionheaded god with a sexy body and laser eyes? Think about the church signs!


Now THAT is a deity I can see value in :yes:
 

mr.guy

crapsack
1. Of course. Notice that my only criticism of atheism is that I find it boring, the other points were aimed at certain atheists themselves.
As it should be...i fail to find anything exciting about it myself.

2. In normal circumstances I would agree, however recently I've seen atheism spouted with fanatical fervour on too many threads. There does seem to be a particular "brand" of atheism that would perhaps be better off being given its own title and considered a religion in its own right.
Every time i hear this suggestion, i wonder if the proponent has considered how much that debases the idea of religion.

3. I don't think much of theists forcing their ideas upon others either.
That would largely defeat the point of having ideas in the first place, i fear.

Progress dosen't often pace in solitude. The realm of ideas are presented for the sake of critisism; otherwise, they're of little use by and large. While i believe that freedom of thought is among the most important aspects modern of civilization, respecting others ideas is hardly required, or reccomended. Theists prosletyze because they can. Dissenters, likewise.

By and large, idealogues will always highjack a forum if they think they can get away with it, be it via ridicule, complaint or any apeal that may garner a restricted and favourable forum of ideas. I view the outcropping of threads trying to force atheists from expressing their opnions on theists to be counterproductive to understanding a fairly common view of religion.

I welcome theists to prosletyze, because it highlights their foolishness. I doubt atheists have much to preach about, although, as previously stated, there's no restriction from an atheist from being an ideologue.

So if you want to make a new catagory, why subdivide a group, as "a whole" you don't much understand? Let's just go with "fools" and be done with it.
 

Smoke

Done here.
One of the main emotional reasons, as well as proselytizing tools, of Christianity, is fear of death. The Christian believes that he will not die, because he's a Christian.

Need I point out what a safe con this is? How transparently manipulative?
Russell:[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans serif] "Fear is the parent of cruelty, therefore it is no wonder if cruelty and religion have gone hand in hand. It is because fear is at the basis of those two things."[/FONT]
 

Azakel

Liebe ist für alle da
Iet's bring back the gods from the good ole days. Remember when they had the bodies of people and the heads of animals?
Those would be the Egyptian Gods/Goddess. And they are far from gone. There are people who still follow them, though not as many people as there was in the past. Just like almost every other Pagan Deity.

Away with this "God is Spirit" twaddle. How about a Lionheaded god with a sexy body and laser eyes? Think about the church signs!
lol, with the exception of the Laser eyes, that sounds like Lady Sekhmet.
sekhmet_sandrastanton.jpg

And she quite sexy ^_^(IMO)
Though I wish I could post some of the better picture of her.....but there not 100% right for the forum.
 

Luminous

non-existential luminary
What exactly does an atheist tell a dying child? Your dying, it's a natural process, your little body will rot, and feed the worms, and you will never exist again... But your mother and I still love you for now and will enjoy your memory after your gone.
PS We will never pray for you, because we don't believe that will help you in the least. In the eternal scheme of things you might as well never have existed, but we still love you...
What to tell the dying children? you could lie to the little imbeciles. tell them they will reincarnate and get another chance, tell them they dont need to live because heaven is better and waiting, tell them they should have tried to detach a little more and thus become enlightened into divinity, tell them they should be happy ghosts, tell them they should sleep tight, tell them they will still be alive in an alternate universe, tell them they will be released from the matrix. you can practically tell the small dumbos anything because you're 'sure of it and they should be too.'
you're only lying becuase its for their own good. they're about to die, why should you care about truth and logic? isn't it better if they're just happy and undisturbed? true: knowledge IS power; but then again, ignorance is bliss. In anycase, tell them whats about to happen probably wont happen because it is better and more happy if something else that might happen happens. but all in all they're powerless against it and should just accept it. Their death is only a small change anyway. :sarcastic
or tell them they will die unless a way if found to keep them alive, they should fight with everybreath and enjoy all their last moments; just incase supernatural unlikely events dont pan out. :angel2:
Pray? why not? better than nothing i guess. but to whom? or to what? a jug of milk might sufice. the outcome of the prayer will still be the same. the jug grants it, god grants it, the jug dismisses it, god dismisses it. either way however, it really all depends on the jug's ultimate plan, or whether it likes you, or whether you have enough faith in it. :shout
 

Vile Atheist

Loud and Obnoxious
What exactly does an atheist tell a dying child?


We spit on them and ridicule them for ever believing in "Santy Claus" and the "Easter Bunny" and other horsedump.

It's absolutely amazing you ask that question...as if the notion of comforting another person is totally void in the dehumanized, soulless atheist.
 

Magic Man

Reaper of Conversation
What exactly does an atheist tell a dying child? Your dying, it's a natural process, your little body will rot, and feed the worms, and you will never exist again... But your mother and I still love you for now and will enjoy your memory after your gone.
PS We will never pray for you, because we don't believe that will help you in the least. In the eternal scheme of things you might as well never have existed, but we still love you...

Why would anyone tell a child any of that?

Why not just tell them that they will be at peace?
 

Vile Atheist

Loud and Obnoxious
Why would anyone tell a child any of that?

Why not just tell them that they will be at peace?

Because in this person's mind (whatever that may encompass), atheists are pretty much subhumans who don't care about dying children. He paints this caricature because it satisfied his misconceptions of atheism and atheists.
 
I dunno... to me being an atheist is like going to an awesome trance/techno dance party and wearing a giant sound-proof helmet and then trying to dance. so yeah, it that sense you kind of are missing out.
 

mr.guy

crapsack
I dunno... to me being an atheist is like going to an awesome trance/techno dance party and wearing a giant sound-proof helmet and then trying to dance. so yeah, it that sense you kind of are missing out.
So...it's like we don't get any ecstasy?
 
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