Any Downside to Atheism?

[Storm]

- both agnosticism and atheism apply equally (the baby doesn't know and doesn't have belief)

But atheism implies a decision has been reached, whereas agnosticsm applies to ignorance.

- none of the terms apply (the baby hasn't evaluated or adopted any of these positions)

This is my actual belief. These discussions always strike me as trying to claim one stance is superior because it's innate.

If the nuance is important to the definition, then I think it matters. However, I do think that this is somewhat moot, since we don't start out as blank slates anyhow.

How do you know, wrt God?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I think the "defult setting" (if there is such a thing) is agnosticism.

The "default setting" pretty much depends on how you're defining the terms, but the problem with stating that agnosticism is the "default setting" is that agnosticism is more of a philosophical position regarding whether god can be known, than merely a statement about whether one knows there is a god or not. If we say that babies are agnostic because they don't know whether god exists, then we have to apply the label agnostic to everyone who doesn't know whether god exists. Since no one actually knows whether god exists or not, this would make everyone an agnostic, which renders it somewhat meaningless as a philosophical position.

 

[Storm]

We're kinda hijacking Cobblestones' thread.... :sorry1:

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

But atheism implies a decision has been reached, whereas agnosticsm applies to ignorance.

Weak athesim doesn't imply that a decision has been reached.

This is my actual belief. These discussions always strike me as trying to claim one stance is superior because it's innate.

I'm not doing that. If you recall, I said that in practical terms, our default position is probably animism, but I don't think that animism is "superior".

How do you know, wrt God?

I didn't say "God", but I think it's a reasonable supposition that not born "blank slates" with respect to our beliefs for two main reasons:

- we aren't born as blank slates generally. We have innate capacities and predispositions to all sorts of complex actions and behaviours, ranging from language to group cooperation and beyond.

- there's a strong case for the evolutionary advantage of animism. This implies that if it arose as an inheritable trait, it would be selected for. We know that the trait exists in humans and we know that a mechanism exists for inheritability of complex behaviours, so I think it's reasonable to infer that this trait arose through inheritance.

 

[Storm]

Weak athesim doesn't imply that a decision has been reached.

I disagree, but we're off-topic.

I'm not doing that. If you recall, I said that in practical terms, our default position is probably animism, but I don't think that animism is "superior".

Oh, honey, I didn't mean YOU were. :sorry1:

I didn't say "God", but I think it's a reasonable supposition that not born "blank slates" with respect to our beliefs for two main reasons:

- we aren't born as blank slates generally. We have innate capacities and predispositions to all sorts of complex actions and behaviours, ranging from language to group cooperation and beyond.

- there's a strong case for the evolutionary advantage of animism. This implies that if it arose as an inheritable trait, it would be selected for. We know that the trait exists in humans and we know that a mechanism exists for inheritability of complex behaviours, so I think it's reasonable to infer that this trait arose through inheritance.

OK.

 

[The Wizard]

Ooh, I see what you did there: "I define god as "good" and / or "mystery", therefore someone who doesn't believe in "god" doesn't believe in "good" or "mystery"".

Terribly clever.

Except that atheists DO experience mysteries, life and goodness. We simply don't believe in the existence of anthropomorphised deities.

You're forgetting that the subject under scope here is a religion or belief system. What does someone reffer to when they say, " thank God for this or for that?" They are also saying "thank goodness for something that has occurred," Correct? Look closer please. They're thanking the mysterious patterns of goodness and fortune (i.e. over their heads) that worked in their favor- that enrich their Life.

They develope a spiritual and emotional connection to it. If they understood it then they could control it with knowledge and science. But, there is no knowledge yet for those patterns, therefore belief and faith is used to help bring it into their Life by the objective laws of cause and effect. It's connected with their religion or belief system. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out. Beliefs and faiths will seek to express their self in someone's own Life and experience. It always does.

Beliefs affect the World and everyone in it. One of the downsides of atheism is that the position prevents many people from acknowledging the affects and creations caused from the beliefs in God, the gods or the Divine. In fact, it can completely blind side them into not using their own capacity to believe in things and therefore enhance their own Life. So, what happens when someone realizes that the very language they think and speak with was also aided by faiths and beliefs?

Ridiculing many of our ancestors faiths and beliefs is the equivelant of shouting to everyone that english is for idiots, in english. Think about it...IMO

 

[LuisDantas]

Ridiculing many of our ancestors faiths and beliefs is the equivelant of shouting to everyone that english is for idiots, in english. Think about it...IMO

I disagree. Each and every generation does indeed question and reject some of the previous' beliefs. It is normal, healthy and expected.

For that matter, English language is not static along generations either.

 

[The Wizard]

Change 'universe' with 'earth', same thing.

Your opinion is obviously false and non evident.

"Obviously" false and non evident?

How interesting...

 

[linwood]

..... therefore belief and faith is used to help bring it into their Life by the objective laws of cause and effect.

Doesn`t that statement strike you as..odd?
If you can hold objective a priori knowledge what do you need faith for?

One of the downsides of atheism is that the position prevents many people from acknowledging the affects and creations caused from the beliefs in God, the gods or the Divine.

This disposition is not inherent in atheism.
In fact I can`t think of a single philosophical atheist who displays it.

I`m constantly listening to atheists go on and on about the affects of theism.

In fact I don`t think there would be a single atheist member of this board if your statement were true.

 

[The Wizard]

I disagree. Each and every generation does indeed question and reject some of the previous' beliefs. It is normal, healthy and expected.

For that matter, English language is not static along generations either.

I stated ridicule, not reject. Things change with human progression. For example, I have no reason to believe the God of thunder is after me to better stay away from it because knowledge and science has replaced the need of belief in that area. But, if that was a magor religion or belief that helped shape the World for which I live in, I can appreciate and respect it, including the site of the thunder god's statue at the museum and the guy who feeds his family from cleaning it... though honoring past ancestors. And, realizing it may sound fruity, but it is still affecting the World and people to this day (i.e. the belief).

I have no idea what you're talking about with English not being static. You would have to elaborate on the point.

 

[LuisDantas]

I stated ridicule, not reject. Things change with human progression. For example, I have no reason to believe the God of thunder is after me to better stay away from it because knowledge and science has replaced the need of belief in that area. But, if that was a magor religion or belief that helped shape the World for which I live in, I can appreciate and respect it, including the site of the thunder god's statue at the museum and the guy who feeds his family from cleaning it... though honoring past ancestors. And, realizing it may sound fruity, but it is still affecting the World and people to this day (i.e. the belief).

Many ridiculous things helped in shaping the world. Heck, World War II has been a major influence in the current world. How exactly is it to be respected?

I have no idea what you're talking about with English not being static. You would have to elaborate on the point.

Languages, much like beliefs, evolve in such a way that make past usage look quite ridiculous. It is a fact of life.

 

[The Wizard]

Doesn`t that statement strike you as..odd?
If you can hold objective a priori knowledge what do you need faith for?

me: This is just not a pretty picture. Faith is used for many things to bring values and enhance people's lives, objectionally. Everyone "knows" this part. But, most don't understand anything else beyond it. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

This disposition is not inherent in atheism.
In fact I can`t think of a single philosophical atheist who displays it.

me: I have met many. Not many here though, I'm fairly new anyway.

I`m constantly listening to atheists go on and on about the affects of theism.

me: Really, and how many credit it to helping create the abundant Lifestyle and World they experience everyday? Or, the language they even use to think with?

In fact I don`t think there would be a single atheist member of this board if your statement were true.

me: I was generally speaking. I've witnessed alot of it in other places.

 

[The Wizard]

Many ridiculous things helped in shaping the world. Heck, World War II has been a major influence in the current world. How exactly is it to be respected?

me: I don't know. Never thought about it. I particular don't like war period.

Languages, much like beliefs, evolve in such a way that make past usage look quite ridiculous. It is a fact of life.

me: Agreed, but those ridiculous fruity things have helped everyone get farther and survive so someone can make better ones. It's a process. It was part of the cause in the first place. One step in front of the next. Without our ancestors beliefs in God, the gods and the Divine, we would most likely be them or atleast much lower on the human progression chart, wouldn't you think?

 

[Autodidact]

"Is there or is there not a god?"

Someone please explain to me why the answer to that question matters.

Is there any real demonstrable negative to not acknowledging god (hint: stories of hell and eternal damnation are not demonstrable)?

I can be kind, loving, selfless, and charitable all on my own. It is simply a matter of choosing to act out such characteristics. I can enjoy my membership in social organizations without having to imbibe any religious teachings.

What are the negative consequences to atheism? I just don't see a downside.

Well, it depends who you are and where you live. If you were born Muslim and live in the wrong place, it could get you killed.

 

[Sunstone]

Well, Autodidact is an atheist. I think that's a big enough downside for most of us, don't you?









(Just kidding, Auto. I worship the reason and logic of your posts)

 

[Autodidact]

*cries into her frosty malted beverage*

 

[McBell]

I worship the reason and logic of your posts)

I do not know that I "worship" it, but it is most definitely a refreshing breath in the creation threads.

 

[Sunstone]

I do not know that I "worship" it, but it is most definitely a refreshing breath in the creation threads.

Yeah. I honestly don't know what we'd do without her.

 

[McBell]

Yeah. I honestly don't know what we'd do without her.

Bang our heads on the walls of the creation threads.
Though I have to admit that I have learned one hell of a lot about evolution because of her.

 

[Sunstone]

Bang our heads on the walls of the creation threads.

They would definitely be tougher to take.

Though I have to admit that I have learned one hell of a lot about evolution because of her.

Me too. And I had a comparatively good grounding in the theory even before I began to read her and Painted Wolf on the subject. How much more I've learned amazes and humbles me.