Any Downside to Atheism?

[Atomist]

Downside to atheism? Nope there is no hell.

 

[McBell]

They would definitely be tougher to take.

Most definitely

Me too. And I had a comparatively good grounding in the theory even before I began to read her and Painted Wolf on the subject. How much more I've learned amazes and humbles me.

Well....
I THOUGHT I had a good grounding in the theory until Autodidact, Painted Wolf, and one or two others took me to school.

 

[LuisDantas]

me: Agreed, but those ridiculous fruity things have helped everyone get farther and survive so someone can make better ones. It's a process.

Are you saying then that belief in God is a positive trait? For some people maybe it is. But generally? That is a bold claim to make.

It was part of the cause in the first place. One step in front of the next. Without our ancestors beliefs in God, the gods and the Divine, we would most likely be them or at least much lower on the human progression chart, wouldn't you think?

No, I don't think so at all. Belief in God may have made odds of survival that much greater some five thousand years ago or so.

But it also made survival so miserable and so superstititous for so many since (and probably before as well) that I feel no gratitude to that belief. None at all.

Also, other than a speculative role on the odds of survival, I don't see how it would be needed at all. It certainly could be done without on its entirety.

 

[The Wizard]

Are you saying then that belief in God is a positive trait? For some people maybe it is. But generally? That is a bold claim to make.

me: I see alot as posative and am thankful for what such beliefs have created for myself to reap. But, I look at all of it, so my appreciations go towards many religions and beliefs from the past- if they contributed to the abundance of my Life.

No, I don't think so at all. Belief in God may have made odds of survival that much greater some five thousand years ago or so.

But it also made survival so miserable and so superstititous for so many since (and probably before as well) that I feel no gratitude to that belief. None at all.

me: No gratitude or appreciation for religion or beliefs whatsoever? Hmmm...

Also, other than a speculative role on the odds of survival, I don't see how it would be needed at all. It certainly could be done without on its entirety.

me: Well, if their isn't a reason it is so much needed then it wouldn't exist for all of this time in every version you can think of. It is not about knowledge, it's about faith and belief. It is another part that one can perform to enhance their Life.

 

[LuisDantas]

(...)But, I look at all of it, so my appreciations go towards many religions and beliefs from the past- if they contributed to the abundance of my Life.

Looking at the whole of something implies accepting the responsibility to reject the unhealthy parts IMO. And there is a LOT of unhealthy to reject in beliefs about God.

No, I don't think so at all. Belief in God may have made odds of survival that much greater some five thousand years ago or so.

But it also made survival so miserable and so superstititous for so many since (and probably before as well) that I feel no gratitude to that belief. None at all.

me: No gratitude or appreciation for religion or beliefs whatsoever? Hmmm...

You've misunderstood me. It's belief in God that I disapprove - and to a lesser extent, superstitious belief as well.

Religion is something else entirely, among other reasons because it can and must be questioned and kept in line.

Also, other than a speculative role on the odds of survival, I don't see how it would be needed at all. It certainly could be done without on its entirety.

me: Well, if their isn't a reason it is so much needed then it wouldn't exist for all of this time in every version you can think of.

Why do you think so? It isn't needed or healthy, but it is resilient. So are cockroaches.

It is not about knowledge, it's about faith and belief. It is another part that one can perform to enhance their Life.

Belief is such a poor substitute for knowledge that it shouldn't be accepted at all. Likewise, faith that relies on belief is in fact malign, unlike faith based on knowledge.

 

[The Wizard]

Looking at the whole of something implies accepting the responsibility to reject the unhealthy parts IMO. And there is a LOT of unhealthy to reject in beliefs about God.

me: There will be negative results in any process that is as mysterious as religions and beliefs- the affects of it on the World. Endeavors regarding the area help us discover true directions. You are consumed by a negative perspective. .. IMO.

You've misunderstood me. It's belief in God that I disapprove - and to a lesser extent, superstitious belief as well.

me: That is still the same difference. What you're saying is that you disprove of the very things that helped create the World in which you presently enjoy.

Religion is something else entirely, among other reasons because it can and must be questioned and kept in line.

me: Kept in line by who and for what reason? I take the things that add enlightenment to my Life. I could care less about the rest.

Why do you think so? It isn't needed or healthy, but it is resilient. So are cockroaches.

me: I can't look at things that way because I don't favor a future descendant looking down on me as a cochroach!

Belief is such a poor substitute for knowledge that it shouldn't be accepted at all. Likewise, faith that relies on belief is in fact malign, unlike faith based on knowledge.

me: Once again, they are not supposed to substitute each other. It is not a this vs. that scenerio. Belief and knowledge are two seperate functions regarding human application and existence. Would you pit human memory and imagination against one another or would you consider both as complimenting? So, why such contradiction or negative view with belief and knowledge?

 

[LuisDantas]

Looking at the whole of something implies accepting the responsibility to reject the unhealthy parts IMO. And there is a LOT of unhealthy to reject in beliefs about God.

me: There will be negative results in any process that is as mysterious as religions and beliefs- the affects of it on the World. Endeavors regarding the area help us discover true directions. You are consumed by a negative perspective. .. IMO.

On the contrary. It is the negative stuff that I'm spitting away from me.

I'm shocked that you want me to accept it so badly. "Respect for Mystery" is a very poor excuse for such reprehensible behavior.

You've misunderstood me. It's belief in God that I disapprove - and to a lesser extent, superstitious belief as well.

me: That is still the same difference. What you're saying is that you disprove of the very things that helped create the World in which you presently enjoy.

(I take it that you mean "disaprove"?)

What the heck? I very emphatically disagree. You over-rate belief in God to a ludicrous degree.

Religion is something else entirely, among other reasons because it can and must be questioned and kept in line.

me: Kept in line by who and for what reason? I take the things that add enlightenment to my Life. I could care less about the rest.

By people, of course. And so that they don't stray too far from healthy paths, equally obviously. Religion must be taken care of, much like anything else.

I don't know what to make of this statement about "caring less about the rest". It makes no sense to me, I have no idea what you are talking about.

Why do you think so? It isn't needed or healthy, but it is resilient. So are cockroaches.

me: I can't look at things that way because I don't favor a future descendant looking down on me as a cochroach!

I wouldn't mind, personally. But if you feel so, all the more reason then to use discernment about your beliefs.

Belief is such a poor substitute for knowledge that it shouldn't be accepted at all. Likewise, faith that relies on belief is in fact malign, unlike faith based on knowledge.

me: Once again, they are not supposed to substitute each other. It is not a this vs. that scenerio. Belief and knowledge are two seperate functions regarding human application and existence.

And belief should be kept away from where it does not belong, indeed. To a degree this IS a vs scenario. In fact, your stance is that it should be.

Would you pit human memory and imagination against one another or would you consider both as complimenting? So, why such contradiction or negative view with belief and knowledge?

Show me why you are so certain that belief shouldn't be curtailed. Belief vs knowledge is a far more one-sided comparison than memory vs imagination.

 

[Revoltingest]

What are the negative consequences to atheism? I just don't see a downside.

It's harder to pick up babes at church socials. Yeah, some are initially intrigued by
heathens, but once they figure out they aren't going to convert us, they stop flirting.

 

[linwood]

me: This is just not a pretty picture. Faith is used for many things to bring values and enhance people's lives, objectionally. Everyone "knows" this part. But, most don't understand anything else beyond it. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

But the faith part is irrelevant within the objective reality of these concepts.
The concepts work because they are based in objective reality not because there is "Blind Faith" in them.
Many "faith" concepts fail miserably because they are not based upon objective reality.

How is a person of faith to discern one from the other?
Certainly not through the very faith they use to accept them unquestioningly?
That`s a bit circular and is bound to fail as can be evidenced endlessly.

me: Really, and how many credit it to helping create the abundant Lifestyle and World they experience everyday? Or, the language they even use to think with?

Actually quite a few that I know of.
Just because we do not believe in the fallacies that found and carry such institutions doesn`t mean we refuse to see the accomplishments made by them.
Here is one thread in the atheist forum here that points out many of these things on a personal level.
There is another one around here somewhere that discusses theistic advances made in this world(Art, philosophy,literature)

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/atheism-dir/12426-how-has-religion-positively-affected-you.html

 

[Alceste]

You're forgetting that the subject under scope here is a religion or belief system. What does someone reffer to when they say, " thank God for this or for that?" They are also saying "thank goodness for something that has occurred," Correct? Look closer please. They're thanking the mysterious patterns of goodness and fortune (i.e. over their heads) that worked in their favor- that enrich their Life.

They develope a spiritual and emotional connection to it. If they understood it then they could control it with knowledge and science. But, there is no knowledge yet for those patterns, therefore belief and faith is used to help bring it into their Life by the objective laws of cause and effect. It's connected with their religion or belief system. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out. Beliefs and faiths will seek to express their self in someone's own Life and experience. It always does.

Beliefs affect the World and everyone in it. One of the downsides of atheism is that the position prevents many people from acknowledging the affects and creations caused from the beliefs in God, the gods or the Divine. In fact, it can completely blind side them into not using their own capacity to believe in things and therefore enhance their own Life. So, what happens when someone realizes that the very language they think and speak with was also aided by faiths and beliefs?

Ridiculing many of our ancestors faiths and beliefs is the equivelant of shouting to everyone that english is for idiots, in english. Think about it...IMO

None of this is remotely relevant to the SPECIFIC belief in god/s we are discussing, and whether there are any drawbacks to not embracing that single belief. There are plenty of non-theistic methods of exploring spirituality, mystery, goodness, ethics, and every other topic and human experience you care to name. Since all of these are available to people who don't believe in god/s, the lack of god-belief poses no problems in this area.

Think about it. Look a little deeper, please, and all such egotistical nonsense.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

You're forgetting that the subject under scope here is a religion or belief system. What does someone reffer to when they say, " thank God for this or for that?" They are also saying "thank goodness for something that has occurred," Correct? Look closer please. They're thanking the mysterious patterns of goodness and fortune (i.e. over their heads) that worked in their favor- that enrich their Life.

Not really.

"Thank goodness" is similar to a minced oath. It's the phrase "thank God" modified to make it less mildly blasphemous... like how "gee whiz!" is a modified form of "Jesus!"

It's a cultural artifact, not a nod to the positive aspects of religion. We make use of the cultural traits we have at our disposal, and religion is just one of the things that fits this bill. It can just as easily be lines from movies or songs.

Ridiculing many of our ancestors faiths and beliefs is the equivelant of shouting to everyone that english is for idiots, in english. Think about it...IMO

So if we don't think, believe and behave just like our ancestors, we're disrespecting them? If so, then I think that's a rather foolish idea.

If you mean that religion should get special status in this regard that we don't give to other cultural traits... then why?

 

[The Wizard]

None of this is remotely relevant to the SPECIFIC belief in god/s we are discussing, and whether there are any drawbacks to not embracing that single belief. There are plenty of non-theistic methods of exploring spirituality, mystery, goodness, ethics, and every other topic and human experience you care to name. Since all of these are available to people who don't believe in god/s, the lack of god-belief poses no problems in this area.

Think about it. Look a little deeper, please, and all such egotistical nonsense.

me: Well all of it makes sence and seems relevant to me. I guess I missed a group think over a specific belief in God. I'm not sure why it would be considered non-sense or egotistical? I have observed the mentioned common denominator with many expressions refferring to God and of other religions... IMO.

 

[The Wizard]

But the faith part is irrelevant within the objective reality of these concepts.
The concepts work because they are based in objective reality not because there is "Blind Faith" in them.
Many "faith" concepts fail miserably because they are not based upon objective reality.

How is a person of faith to discern one from the other?
Certainly not through the very faith they use to accept them unquestioningly?
That`s a bit circular and is bound to fail as can be evidenced endlessly.

Actually quite a few that I know of.
Just because we do not believe in the fallacies that found and carry such institutions doesn`t mean we refuse to see the accomplishments made by them.
Here is one thread in the atheist forum here that points out many of these things on a personal level.
There is another one around here somewhere that discusses theistic advances made in this world(Art, philosophy,literature)

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/atheism-dir/12426-how-has-religion-positively-affected-you.html

me: Spot on, good post. But, please realize I never mentioned blind faith. Personally, I would not even understand what blind faith is about. Is that like walking off of a cliff and believing you'll be saved or something? lol. I believe one must incorporate rationality, objectivity and common sense as much as possible.

 

[The Wizard]

Not really.

So if we don't think, believe and behave just like our ancestors, we're disrespecting them? If so, then I think that's a rather foolish idea.

If you mean that religion should get special status in this regard that we don't give to other cultural traits... then why?

No, No... I am not implying above said. I am reffering to "ridiculing" as in a negative and destructive manner without the reckognition of all the great things such religions, faiths and beliefs have created for us. No where did I mention becoming a clone of the past by adopting other's specific thinking and behavior. You may have me confused with someone else, but insightful post though.

 

[Alceste]

No, No... I am not implying above said. I am reffering to "ridiculing" as in a negative and destructive manner without the reckognition of all the great things such religions, faiths and beliefs have created for us. No where did I mention becoming a clone of the past by adopting other's specific thinking and behavior. You may have me confused with someone else, but insightful post though.

Regardless, many of our ancestors were atheists so being an atheist shouldn't be framed as some kind of an insult to our ancestors. I consider myself descended from Epicurus and honor his noble, ancient tradition to the best of my ability.

 

[dust1n]

"Is there or is there not a god?"

Someone please explain to me why the answer to that question matters.

Is there any real demonstrable negative to not acknowledging god (hint: stories of hell and eternal damnation are not demonstrable)?

I can be kind, loving, selfless, and charitable all on my own. It is simply a matter of choosing to act out such characteristics. I can enjoy my membership in social organizations without having to imbibe any religious teachings.

What are the negative consequences to atheism? I just don't see a downside.

Negative consequences of atheism:

- No place to congregate with your rich buddies and discuss making more money.

- You actually have to DEAL with the state of the world.

- You actually have to think about various mind-opening subjects.

- No warm fuzzy feeling associated with the thought of death.

- Christians are still around.

 

[Jeremiah]

Negative consequences of atheism:

- No place to congregate with your rich buddies and discuss making more money.

- You actually have to DEAL with the state of the world.

- You actually have to think about various mind-opening subjects.

- No warm fuzzy feeling associated with the thought of death.

- Christians are still around.

"- No warm fuzzy feeling associated with the thought of death."

Maybe not for you, but I find comfort in knowing that I won't have to put up with existing forever.

 

[LuisDantas]

"- No warm fuzzy feeling associated with the thought of death."

Maybe not for you, but I find comfort in knowing that I won't have to put up with existing forever.

Same here.

 

[The Wizard]

Regardless, many of our ancestors were atheists so being an atheist shouldn't be framed as some kind of an insult to our ancestors. I consider myself descended from Epicurus and honor his noble, ancient tradition to the best of my ability.

me: Oh, ya, different story there. People should be reckognized for their own contributions, regardless, in my opinion. I am not any of my ideas or beliefs, so I don't consider other's ideas or beliefs as any challenge or threat on my self, personally. Such a reverse stance would not allow me to be harmonious towards things or upgrade upon an area when something true comes along by others.

Epicurus? Never heard of that one. It's just mystery to me.

 

[Jeremiah]

me: Oh, ya, different story there. People should be reckognized for their own contributions, regardless, in my opinion. I am not any of my ideas or beliefs, so I don't consider other's ideas or beliefs as any challenge or threat on my self, personally. Such a reverse stance would not allow me to be harmonious towards things or upgrade upon an area when something true comes along by others.

Epicurus? Never heard of that one. It's just mystery to me.

"Epicurus? Never heard of that one. It's just mystery to me."

Ever heard of Google?

I just don't understand why people don't make use of the greatest reference ever complied, which is laying right under their fingertips.