Gharib
I want Khilafah back
what? can you please tell me whats going on.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Apostates of Islam
- Thread starter England my lionheart
- Start date
what? can you please tell me whats going on.
gnostic
The Lost One
You mean Abdul Rahman?eselam said:
Did you not even hear in the news in 2006 about his arrest, trial and release?
I've already given you brief summary here in my previous post. If you want more, then why don't you do a google or wiki search?
Lot of the old articles still existed.
It's late, so I'm off to bed. Goodnite.
Yet you didn't show me the "posts" that supported your claims. If anything you realized you were wrong so to save your face you said this:
You see Ymir I never defended the action of Muslims did i? You keep going in circle.
There is no story here, i was stating MY opinion which is derived from Islam, from Qur'anic verses. You might say other Muslims also say their opinion derive from Islam so which one to believe, right? Read the Qur'an Ymir. I know you are an athiest but read the Qur'an and decide for yourself if you are really interested in knowing the answer.
The issue here is not how some Muslims twist the definition of treason, the issue here is if killing of an apostate is Islamic or not? If Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) killed apostate? if the war with the apostates after the death of the Prophet (PBUH) was justified?
Well how does pen and words equate physical force? In Qur'an it states clearly when war is justified, and that when we are met with physical force.
And you just wasted your time summoning useless information. How is that relevant to my point?
Is the topic here how many Muslims agree with me or what is the Islamic teaching? It is not down to opinions, it is down to what is written in Qur'an. I challenge anyone to find me one verse that support the killing of an apostate.
9:73-74 O Prophet, strive [j-h-d] hard against the disbelievers and the hypocrites and be adamant and stern with them . . . they did utter the words of unbelief. Thus, they were guilty of unbelief after they professed Islam . . . If even now they repent of their misbehavior, it will be good for their own selves, but if they do not repent, Allah will chastise them with a painful chastisement in this world and the Hereafter . . . . (Maududi, vol. 2, p. 213)
You are missing the point here, when you have strong faith in something you will not find anything else difficult. Ahmed Dedat example was to show that Muslims are not afraid to debate publicly their faiths with other profound religious figures.
Disinformation? Yup the usual repliesagain Mr. Ridgeon opinion on Mr. Dedat is of no value to me. Let facts talk and the fact is Mr. Dedat was a subject expert matter and managed convery Islamic message to people of other faiths. This cannot be said about many others including Muslim scholars. He was one of a kind.
Majority? Have you met the majority of Muslims? Now if you have said "saldy it is not a view expressed by many Muslims" i would've agreed but inserting "majority" make your post irrationale.
This is not my try, it is YOURS. You tried to twist this into Islam being the government and if they rejected Islam it means they betrayed the government. That was your logic. Well i just showed you the flaw in your logic because non-Muslim is a non-Muslim in other words ALL non-Muslims reject the "government". Beside, and i know you will keep dodging this fact, if we are supposed to kill apostate why isn't written in Qur'an, pure and simple?
I dont take lectures on Sharia Law from a non-Muslim, let alone an athiest. You and other athiests in the forum need to understand and grasp this information.
I have answered that question over and over, but it seems you find it hard to understand or maybe you just want me to join the anti-Islam propoganda and repeat the "behead the apostates is compliant with Sharia Law"!
Maybe if you answer the following question you will be able to understand the different between an apostate and a traitor. So hww do you know one is a terrorist or simply an extremist? and who decides?
What about this,is it a good translation?
ProudMuslim
Active Member
Yes but it must say "in her own words....", i am a she not a he.
Kodanshi
StygnosticA
Whoops, my sincerest apologies. Were not a bad bunch to be a part of
. Nonetheless, Ill duly note peoples claimed genders next before assigning them with a sex!ProudMuslim
Active Member
For one it does not mention anything about killing. But more importantly it is about Hypocrites. I have posted the some of the prior and following verses to understand more.
"Among them are men who molest the Prophet and say, "He is (all) ear." Say, "He listens to what is best for you: he believes in Allah, has faith in the Believers, and is a Mercy to those of you who believe." But those who molest the Messenger will have a grievous penalty.
To you they swear by Allah. In order to please you: But it is more fitting that they should please Allah and His Messenger, if they are Believers.
Know they not that for those who oppose Allah and His Messenger, is the Fire of Hell?- wherein they shall dwell. That is the supreme disgrace.
The Hypocrites are afraid lest a Sura should be sent down about them, showing them what is (really passing) in their hearts. Say: "Mock ye! But verily Allah will bring to light all that ye fear (should be revealed).
If thou dost question them, they declare (with emphasis): "We were only talking idly and in play." Say: "Was it at Allah, and His Signs, and His Messenger, that ye were mocking?"
Make ye no excuses: ye have rejected Faith after ye had accepted it. If We pardon some of you, We will punish others amongst you, for that they are in sin
The Hypocrites, men and women, (have an understanding) with each other: They enjoin evil, and forbid what is just, and are close with their hands. They have forgotten Allah. so He hath forgotten them. Verily the Hypocrites are rebellious and perverse.
Allah hath promised the Hypocrites men and women, and the rejecters, of Faith, the fire of Hell: Therein shall they dwell: Sufficient is it for them: for them is the curse of Allah, and an enduring punishment,-
As in the case of those before you: they were mightier than you in power, and more flourishing in wealth and children. They had their enjoyment of their portion: and ye have of yours, as did those before you; and ye indulge in idle talk as they did. They!- their work are fruitless in this world and in the Hereafter, and they will lose (all spiritual good).
Hath not the story reached them of those before them?- the People of Noah, and 'Ad, and Thamud; the People of Abraham, the men of Midian, and the cities overthrown. To them came their apostles with clear signs. It is not Allah Who wrongs them, but they wrong their own souls.
The Believers, men and women, are protectors one of another: they enjoin what is just, and forbid what is evil: they observe regular prayers, practise regular charity, and obey Allah and His Messenger. On them will Allah pour His mercy: for Allah is Exalted in power, Wise.
Allah hath promised to Believers, men and women, gardens under which rivers flow, to dwell therein, and beautiful mansions in gardens of everlasting bliss. But the greatest bliss is the good pleasure of Allah. that is the supreme felicity.
O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed.
They swear by Allah that they said nothing (evil), but indeed they uttered blasphemy, and they did it after accepting Islam; and they meditated a plot which they were unable to carry out: this revenge of theirs was (their) only return for the bounty with which Allah and His Messenger had enriched them! If they repent, it will be best for them; but if they turn back (to their evil ways), Allah will punish them with a grievous penalty in this life and in the Hereafter: They shall have none on earth to protect or help them.
Amongst them are men who made a covenant with Allah, that if He bestowed on them of His bounty, they would give (largely) in charity, and be truly amongst those who are righteous.
But when He did bestow of His bounty, they became covetous, and turned back (from their covenant), averse (from its fulfilment).
So He hath put as a consequence hypocrisy into their hearts, (to last) till the Day, whereon they shall meet Him: because they broke their covenant with Allah, and because they lied (again and again).
Know they not that Allah doth know their secret (thoughts) and their secret counsels, and that Allah knoweth well all things unseen? "
(9: 61-78)
I have highlighted this sentence: Allah will punish them with a grievous penalty in this life and in the Hereafter: They shall have none on earth to protect or help them.
Here it states punishment in this life and the next
Here it states punishment in this life and the next
ProudMuslim
Active Member
Yes but it says Allah (SWT) will punish them not Muslims. Examples of God's worldly punishhments: disease, natural disaster, famine, displacement, poverty, etc.
ProudMuslim
Active Member
Whoops, my sincerest apologies. Were not a bad bunch to be a part of
no worries
kai
ragamuffin
Apostasy in Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Is this innacurate then?
The four major Sunni Madh'hab (schools of Islamic jurisprudence) and theShi'aJafari madhab agree that a sane adult male apostate must be executed
Is this innacurate then?
The four major Sunni Madh'hab (schools of Islamic jurisprudence) and theShi'aJafari madhab agree that a sane adult male apostate must be executed
Last edited:
ProudMuslim
Active Member
kai
ragamuffin
so there is no ruling as such? just opinions or interpretations and you can choose which one suits you?
At a stoning i highlighted in another thread the first person to throw the stones said "it is not i that throws this stone,it is Allah" followed by everyone saying Allāhu Akbar (God is great) and lots of cheering.
The important sentence here is "it is not i that throws this stone,it is Allah" and these people are obviously trying to get the job done.
ayani
member
you know, that is a really, really excellent point. darn, i wish i could frubal you. i have noticed that. and i noticed in myself too, when formerly debating with Christians.
Last edited:
Mr Spinkles
Mr
ayani what religion were you previously, if you don't mind my asking?
ayani
member
Muslim. specifically, Quran-alone. it's an emerging movement within Islam, and it's a sola-scriptura approach to the faith. it has connections ideologically to liberal Islam, progressive Islam, and similar movements.
Quranic Islam encourages Muslims to read and interpret scripture for themselves, and to determine for themselves what is cultural, and what is necessary for faith. for example, no where in the Quran does it say that a Muslim woman should or must cover her hair / wear hijab. so a Quranic Muslim woman may chose (if she is able) to not wear a headscarf if she understands this practice to be cultural and unnecesary rather than religiously mandated, or she may chose to wear the hijab as well.
Quranic Islam encourages Muslims to read and interpret scripture for themselves, and to determine for themselves what is cultural, and what is necessary for faith. for example, no where in the Quran does it say that a Muslim woman should or must cover her hair / wear hijab. so a Quranic Muslim woman may chose (if she is able) to not wear a headscarf if she understands this practice to be cultural and unnecesary rather than religiously mandated, or she may chose to wear the hijab as well.
Last edited:
kai
ragamuffin
cheers gnostic , actually it was only the wiki article that i intended to be a link so i will break it down a little
Apostasy in Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Madh'hab - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Ja'fari jurisprudence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Twelver - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It seems to me no one knows what they are doing , and are all just making it up as they go along, you hear all about the christian and jewish faiths being corrupted but this is definately a kettle calling a pot black isnt it? Its a mish mash depending in what country you are living in
Ijtihad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Heres a great link that shows alll the pots and kettles in the kitchen,
Islam
Last edited:
Kodanshi
StygnosticA
I went through a QA phase once. I realise now mostly because it made things easier, and didnt leave me having to explain embarrassing stories of Muhammad in the SAHIH (deemed correct) ahadith collections, like him fondling his wife while she was on her period, having sex with a nineyearold, having companions that stoned a monkey to death for fornication, convincing people to drink camel urine, likening playing chess to dipping your hands in swine blood, etc.
However, after a brief period, I did what people had challenged me to do: I used the Qurân alone. And on its own basis it made no sense, and contained enough in it to make me realise that its divine inspiration DEMANDED extraQurânic revelations to make any sense.
ProudMuslim
Active Member
That is inaccurate, the commandment of wearing hijab is stated in the Qur'an.
(24:31)
Last edited: