Apostates of Islam

[Alla Prima]

OK so let me say what i've been saying again because none of the things you say did not prove other wise. there is only one death penalty IN QUR'AN.

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DOES NOT MATTER. Post #334.

 

[.lava]

does not matter. Post #334.

it is our business to decide that

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[Alla Prima]

it is our business to decide that

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Well post #334 shows that the decision has been clearly made whether you like it or not. Now you're free to deny it or spin it either way you see fit but the fact of the matter is that the Sahih Al-Bukhari is the most authentic work in Hadith literature ever compiled and the Sahih Al-Bukhari commands death to apostates.

 

[.lava]

Well post #334 shows that the decision has been clearly made whether you like it or not. Now you're free to deny it or spin it either way you see fit but the fact of the matter is that the Sahih Al-Bukhari is the most authentic work in Hadith literature ever compiled and the Sahih Al-Bukhari commands death to apostates.

as i said, death penalty for apostates is not written in Qur'an. you keep talking about hadiths.

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[Alla Prima]

as i said, death penalty for apostates is not written in Qur'an. you keep talking about hadiths.

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Either you're in denial or you just aren't seeing what I'm writing. I believe your position is propaganda and what I posted smashes this propaganda. Anyone who isn't a slave to a particular set of dogma will be able to see this.

Any Muslim can deny the importance of the Ahadith but this in no way diminishes their importance or disqualifiies them as authentic Islamic teachings.

 

[Kodanshi]

ESPECIALLY considering all the main detailed religious stuff (how to pray! The exact procedure you follow in Hajj, even Wudu itself) comes from the ahadith, not the Qur’ân.

 

[.lava]

ESPECIALLY considering all the main detailed religious stuff (how to pray! The exact procedure you follow in Hajj, even Wudu itself) comes from the ahadith, not the Qur’ân.

but everyone is in agreement on that stuff.

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[.lava]

Either you're in denial or you just aren't seeing what I'm writing. I believe your position is propaganda and what I posted smashes this propaganda. Anyone who isn't a slave to a particular set of dogma will be able to see this.

Any Muslim can deny the importance of the Ahadith but this in no way diminishes their importance or disqualifiies them as authentic Islamic teachings.

death penalty for apostates is not written in Qur'an. that IS a fact. not propaganda. if you say other wise bring me the verse, not hadiths. i already know hadiths. hadiths were not even mentioned in my respond.

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[Alla Prima]

but everyone is in agreement on that stuff.

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Well it appears every scholar worth his salt is in agreement about the authenticity of the Sahih Al-Bukhari and the Sahih Al-Bukhari commands death for apostates. Should we listen to you? :no: or to all these scholars? :yes:

You are being conveniently selective is what you argee with in the Hadith. This is a mark of a propagandist.

 

[Alla Prima]

death penalty for apostates is not written in Qur'an. that IS a fact. not propaganda.

No that's not the propaganda. The propaganda is conveniently ignoring the commands from Sahih Al-Bukhari in order to paint a false picture of how Islam deals with apostasy.

 

[.lava]

No that's not the propaganda. The propaganda is conveniently ignoring the commands from Sahih Al-Bukhari in order to paint a false picture of how Islam deals with apostasy.

ahh Alla Prima we've been here before for a few times, remember?

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[Alla Prima]

ahh Alla Prima we've been here before for a few times, remember?

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As long as you insist on painting a false picture of Islam I'll be here. I'm sorry Islam commands death for apostates.

 

[.lava]

As long as you insist on painting a false picture of Islam I'll be here. I'm sorry Islam commands death for apostates.

that is not Islam we practice. so i'll be here too honey.

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[Kodanshi]

that is not Islam we practice.

In which case someone needs to establish your version of Islâm as the official party line!

 

[.lava]

In which case someone needs to establish your version of Islâm as the official party line!

i do not have my version of Islam if you ask me. i have a teacher, a Imam and there are many more like me in my nation. i am told to love, to make people happy. i can not simply understand how people could embrace death penalty so easily. i try to put everything aside and use logic alone. someone is born in an Islamic land, his family is a Muslim family and he would directly be recognized as Muslim by everyone. so they would teach him certain stuff and he would practice them because everyone does. he would do that without questioning for awhile. he would grow up, after certain age, he would start thinking and answering questions on his own. he would have feelings, inspirations, experiences and maybe he would leave Islam. not that i believe leaving Islam is a good choice but where did he do wrong other than being born in an Islamic land? my intellect, my conscience, my logic and all the knowledge i have from tasavvuf/Islam contradicts with this situation. i am not able to see how people see logic in this, i really can't.

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[Kodanshi]

where did he do wrong other than being born in an Islamic land? my intellect, my conscience, my logic and all the knowledge i have from tasavvuf/Islam contradicts with this situation. i am not able to see how people see logic in this, i really can't.

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My points exactly, but this is not ‘true’ Islâm, I’m afraid. Or else you have an inner working of the true deen that centuries of scholars don’t seem to have grasped…

 

[.lava]

My points exactly, but this is not ‘true’ Islâm, I’m afraid. Or else you have an inner working of the true deen that centuries of scholars don’t seem to have grasped…

28:41 And We made them Imams who call to the fire, and on the day of resurrection they shall not be assisted.

God knows who is who.

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[Kodanshi]

28:41 And We made them Imams who call to the fire, and on the day of resurrection they shall not be assisted.

God knows who is who.

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Hoho, that’s rich! You spoke to me about taking Qur’ânic verses ‘out of context’, and what have you done here? Let’s have a look at the whole ayat and those surrounding it, shall we?

Pharaoh said: “O council, I know of no other god for you than me. O Haman, fire up some clay for me, and build me a tower that I may climb up to the god of Moses. I consider him a liar.”

And he and his troops grew arrogant in the land unjustly, imagining they would not be restored to Us. So We seized him and his troops and flung them into the sea. See what an end they met, those evildoers! And We turned them into guides who summon to the Fire. On the Day of Resurrection they shall find no support. In this life We pursued them with a curse, and on the Day of Resurrection they shall be among the damned.

So what’s your point?

 

[Alla Prima]

that is not Islam we practice. so i'll be here too honey.

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As far as I'm concerned you can practice any kind of Islam you like as long as it doesn't infringe on other people's freedoms including mine. Have fun and knock yourself out. But we're not discussing your kind of Islam. We're discussing what is sanctioned in the teachings and what is clearly sanctioned is death to all apostates. Until all such verses as the ones I posted are expunged from the books of Islam, Muslims will carry out these barbaric commands. I could care less whether or not Muslims are bothered by my criticisms. What I care about are the people who live in fear because of these terrible and unjust commands.

 

[England my lionheart]

:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clapWhat I care about are the people who live in fear because of these terrible and unjust commands.