Apostates of Islam

[.lava]

and it continues as...

Our Lord explains in the 256th verse of Al-Baqarah Sura that everybody is totally free concerning the fact that they will fulfill or not the orders of surrender.

2/Al-Baqarah – 256:
There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the Path of Irshad (Maturity) has become distinct from the Path of Misguidance (the Right Path from the wrong path). Whoever disbelieves in Tağût (the word Tagût covers a wide range of meanings. It means anything worshipped other than the Real God (Allah) i.e. all false deities) and believes in Allah, then he has grasped the most most trustworthy handhold (the hand of the murshid) that will never break. And Allah is All-Hearer, All-Knower.

We understand from the explanations of our Lord that man may act following his free will beginning from the lowest level to the level where he reaches irshad at every point. Our Lord has made a law that an other man cannot force his will in any direction and has not the authority to force it.
Those who comprehend this wrongly has reached the conclusion that there will not be any compulsion only in the choosing of the religion. That is to say, a disbeliever cannot be forced to enter the religion of Islâm. But if an individual belonging to the community of Islâm cannot fulfil his responsibilities towards Allah and comprehend them yet, it is necessary to force them to carry out the orders of Allah. They think so.
Whereas, our Lord explains to us in the sacred verses that any person who has entered (the circle of) Islam and who may be at any level of comprehension always maintains his free will and no one can meddle in it, act upon it. The person who tries to impose his conjecture (opinions) upon another in the name of religion is a fanatical one (a bigot). But there is no room for the fanaticism in Religion.

 

[England my lionheart]

let me guess dear Kai, your newspapers never told about those English men who dressed like Arabs and captured by Iraqi police because they were randomly shooting at people walking on the streets. how do you think this struggle between tribe has started in the first place? who placed the first bomb do you think? a Muslim? i am afraid not. that is Western strategy to make people kill each other. first bombs are always placed and went off because/by Western spies who's there to start this war between tribes.

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Lava,this is News to me and the world i suspect.

 

[Alla Prima]

funny you should say that Alla Prima. it was America who gave Saddam whatever he needed.

First of all you side-stepped my comment.

Secondly I don't agree with everything the American government does.

any, ANY ideology that denies one's free will and freedom of choice is not welcomed by me either. yet i am a Muslim who's following foot steps of Mohammad (PBUH). are you willing to ignore existance of people like me?

Of course not and I have said as much in the pastbut you unfortunately are not all of Islam.

you want to destroy Islam so bad so you do not even consider me as a Muslim, but God knows i am.

Not true. I would either see Islam transformed or every Muslim leave Islam.

that's the main issue here. people who hate idea of One God or submission, they just want all Muslims to be violent murderers because that kind of Muslims give reason to ruin our nations

Again not true. I don't hate the idea of one god. I hate tyranny. I hate people using God to bully and harm others because their god told them to.

a Western who does not see that is no better or worse than a Muslim who does not see that. that's the plan. you guys need violent bigot Muslims to invade our nations.

Is France being invaded by western nations? Sweden? Australia? Finland? No. And why is that? I would be over-joyed if all Muslim violence ceased tomorrow forever.

this is why no way a non-Muslim read one single good things about Muslims in newspapers.

I have applauded the efforts of Muslims who have seen fit to criticize their own house and try to bring peace to Islam.

as if, we were not Muslims anymore, our nations would be crime free areas. as if all the crimes are commited because we are Muslims. i am so surprise that adults, educated members of your society buying this pathetic lie. illogical from hair to toe.

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Islam is being dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century. Hopefully it will stop screaming soon and join the human family.

 

[keithnurse]

because he could not. he did not have free will and he was 100% servant of God which means everything he said was from God, not from him as a person. tat is the same with all Prophets you know, same with Jesus(PBUH) and same with Moses(PBUH).

yes i know how some Muslims interpret that verse. but that verse does not need interpretation. it is crystal clear, no compulsion in religion. let me say it again "IN" religion. rules never change, no. i gave an example to show how illogical that intrepretation is. if i said there is no water in my home, using the same logic there would not be water in my home when you are outside but once you pass the door there would be water enough to kill you. logic does not work that way and also intellect does not work that way. if your intellect OK with this i do not know what to say to you. because it is illogical. it is command of Allah "use your intellect!"

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I agree that that is illogical. If your view of that verse is correct then women cannot be compelled to be separate from men in mosques because "there is no compulsion in religion" and Muslim men cannot be compelled to wear a beard and yet these are required by Muslims. What do the scholarly commentaries about Qur'an say about 2:256? do the majority them agree with you or with saying it only applies to not forcing nonMuslims to become Muslims?

 

[.lava]

Lava,this is News to me and the world i suspect.

the world you suspect is the world we live in. watch this video here;

Amerikanın Son 60 Yıllık Planı | netpano.com - Haber sitesi

there you would see faces of some English spies.


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http://www.dailymotion.com/user/ortadogu77/video/x93iik_the-plan_news

 

[Judgment]

funny you should say that Alla Prima. it was America who gave Saddam whatever he needed.



any, ANY ideology that denies one's free will and freedom of choice is not welcomed by me either. yet i am a Muslim who's following foot steps of Mohammad (PBUH). are you willing to ignore existance of people like me? you want to destroy Islam so bad so you do not even consider me as a Muslim, but God knows i am. that's the main issue here. people who hate idea of One God or submission, they just want all Muslims to be violent murderers because that kind of Muslims give reason to ruin our nations. a Western who does not see that is no better or worse than a Muslim who does not see that. that's the plan. you guys need violent bigot Muslims to invade our nations. this is why no way a non-Muslim read one single good things about Muslims in newspapers. as if, we were not Muslims anymore, our nations would be crime free areas. as if all the crimes are commited because we are Muslims. i am so surprise that adults, educated members of your society buying this pathetic lie. illogical from hair to toe.

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Hi Lava... You can choose - but - will you be slayed for not choosing correctly ?

Sura (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them"

 

[Gharib]

Hi Lava... You can choose - but - will you be slayed for not choosing correctly ?

Sura (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them"

you always missinterpret the verses don't you judgement?

 

[Judgment]

you always missinterpret the verses don't you judgement?

Hi Eselam. You gave no rebuttal.

 

[Gharib]

Hi Eselam. You gave no rebuttal.

whats rebuttal?

and i'm serious you have miss-interpreted the verse.

 

[Judgment]

whats rebuttal?

and i'm serious you have miss-interpreted the verse.

Argument or proof.

 

[Gharib]

Argument or proof.

oh ok. why didn't you say so in the first time?

well that verse speaks about war time, and naturally thats very unfortunate about you. since you think it speaks in general times, but you forgot one tiny thing, to post the verse that comes after it which expailns everything, but instead you had to rush in posting just verse 89 and made me correct you on it.

read them and tell me if you do not understand;

[4:89] They wish that you disbelieve as they have disbelieved, then you become equal. Do not consider them friends, unless they mobilize along with you in the cause of GOD. If they turn against you, you shall fight them, and you may kill them when you encounter them in war. You shall not accept them as friends, or allies.

[4:90] Exempted are those who join people with whom you have signed a peace treaty, and those who come to you wishing not to fight you, nor fight their relatives. Had GOD willed, He could have permitted them to fight against you. Therefore, if they leave you alone, refrain from fighting you, and offer you peace, then GOD gives you no excuse to fight them.

 

[Alla Prima]

oh ok. why didn't you say so in the first time?

well that verse speaks about war time, and naturally thats very unfortunate about you. since you think it speaks in general times, but you forgot one tiny thing, to post the verse that comes after it which expailns everything, but instead you had to rush in posting just verse 89 and made me correct you on it.

read them and tell me if you do not understand;

[4:89] They wish that you disbelieve as they have disbelieved, then you become equal. Do not consider them friends, unless they mobilize along with you in the cause of GOD. If they turn against you, you shall fight them, and you may kill them when you encounter them in war. You shall not accept them as friends, or allies.

[4:90] Exempted are those who join people with whom you have signed a peace treaty, and those who come to you wishing not to fight you, nor fight their relatives. Had GOD willed, He could have permitted them to fight against you. Therefore, if they leave you alone, refrain from fighting you, and offer you peace, then GOD gives you no excuse to fight them.

Is the Koran a history book?

 

[.lava]

I agree that that is illogical. If your view of that verse is correct then women cannot be compelled to be separate from men in mosques because "there is no compulsion in religion" and Muslim men cannot be compelled to wear a beard and yet these are required by Muslims. What do the scholarly commentaries about Qur'an say about 2:256? do the majority them agree with you or with saying it only applies to not forcing nonMuslims to become Muslims?

wearing beard is Sunnah of Mohammad (PBUH) not basic of Islam. which means you are still a Muslim if you accept Mohammad (PBUH) as meseenger of Allah, Qur'an as word of Allah and Allah as the one and only creator.

during performing salaats first Imams stands to lead salaat, then men and then women. it is not separation. rules are for both male and female. which means a female cannot stand before men but also a male cannot perform his salaat behind women. in Ramadan, we perform one salaat in a mosque. it was too crowded we were on the streets. there was no order at all. because families perform salaat together and men and women were mixed. we performed our salaats together. it was not wrong. yet we did not plan it. so it happens specially in Ramadan when mosques were so crowded. noone cares to look one another. but many women i know would prefer to perform their salaat separated from stranger men which is completely normal. why would a Muslim lady want to stay close some stranger just because he is Muslim anyway? finally, he could be anyone, she can not know who he is. so yes, Muslim women feel secure being close to other female during salaats. but in Hajj time there is no separation. also for your Hajj being accepted by God one should not have even a tiny piece of sexual thought. so Hajj is a great test for both male and female. i hope yu see what i mean. when you perform salaat, you willingly stand before God and you should not be feeling some emotion for opposite gender. when female and male were mixed, that is very possible it happens. so in Hajj if it happens, your Hajj is a failure. a loss.

i've just sent you a scholars explaination of Baqara 256. it is verses of Qur'an that states there are Imams who invite hell and there are Imams who invite heaven. it is one's duty to use his own intellect and conscience so he could see which direction is hell fire. if there is lack of human rights in teachings of a Imam, there, one must suspect him. because religion is there for happiness of people and ther to unite everyone despite their religious preferences. no Imam would come up and say "hey i invite you to fire, go kill gay people come on!" that's not gonna happen, you know. it is always one's duty to distinguish between right and wrong. imo, scholars scare people, Muslims are afraid of questioning scholars even though Qur'an invites them to use their own intellect.

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[Gharib]

Is the Koran a history book?

you will receive a revelation to that answer ok

i don't know why don't you ask someone?

 

[.lava]

Hi Lava... You can choose - but - will you be slayed for not choosing correctly ?

Sura (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them"

hi there Judgment, i have to leave for awhile. just do not think you're been ignored.

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[England my lionheart]

the world you suspect is the world we live in. watch this video here;

Amerikanın Son 60 Yıllık Planı | netpano.com - Haber sitesi

there you would see faces of some English spies.


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SAS are not spies,the Special Air Service,one of their functions is counter Terrorism,and i would doubt that they would kill anyone for no reason.

 

[.lava]

SAS are not spies,the Special Air Service,one of their functions is counter Terrorism,and i would doubt that they would kill anyone for no reason.

so they are doing their job very well, what do you expect me to say? it is all documented, all proven and known.

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[Judgment]

oh ok. why didn't you say so in the first time?

well that verse speaks about war time, and naturally thats very unfortunate about you. since you think it speaks in general times, but you forgot one tiny thing, to post the verse that comes after it which expailns everything, but instead you had to rush in posting just verse 89 and made me correct you on it.

read them and tell me if you do not understand;

[4:89] They wish that you disbelieve as they have disbelieved, then you become equal. Do not consider them friends, unless they mobilize along with you in the cause of GOD. If they turn against you, you shall fight them, and you may kill them when you encounter them in war. You shall not accept them as friends, or allies.

[4:90] Exempted are those who join people with whom you have signed a peace treaty, and those who come to you wishing not to fight you, nor fight their relatives. Had GOD willed, He could have permitted them to fight against you. Therefore, if they leave you alone, refrain from fighting you, and offer you peace, then GOD gives you no excuse to fight them.

I did say that the first time.

If you read further it says that disbelievers are an open enemy. Does that not mean that disbelievers are always the enemy ?

004.101
And when ye go forth in the land, it is no sin for you to curtail (your) worship if ye fear that those who disbelieve may attack you. In truth the disbelievers are an open enemy to you.

 

[England my lionheart]

so they are doing their job very well, what do you expect me to say? it is all documented, all proven and known.

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Yes they do tend to hit the target,but i say again,it is highly unlikely that the SAS would kill indiscriminately.

 

[Gharib]

I did say that the first time.

If you read further it says that disbelievers are an open enemy. Does that not mean that disbelievers are always the enemy ?

004.101
And when ye go forth in the land, it is no sin for you to curtail (your) worship if ye fear that those who disbelieve may attack you. In truth the disbelievers are an open enemy to you.

oh yes you did, but i didn't understand it, ok my bad.

no they are not always an enemie, we may be enemies of each other in religious views but not in physical terms.

here is a verse for you;

[5:82] You will find that the worst enemies of the believers are the Jews and the idol worshipers. And you will find that the closest people in friendship to the believers are those who say, "We are Christian." This is because they have priests and monks among them, and they are not arrogant.

so clearly it is speaking about religious views. otherwise Allah (swt) could have just said they are all our enemies. and there is also this verse;

[3:20] If they argue with you, then say, "I have simply submitted myself to GOD; I and those who follow me." You shall proclaim to those who received the scripture, as well as those who did not, "Would you submit?" If they submit, then they have been guided, but if they turn away, your sole mission is to deliver this message. GOD is Seer of all people.