Apostates of Islam

[tariqkhwaja]

"A section of the people of the Book urge some from among themselves: why not affirm, in the early part of the day, belief in that which has been revealed unto the believers and repudiate it in the latter part of the day, perchance they may turn away from their faith." (3.73)

This used to happen. But these people were never punished.

"Those who believe, then disbelieve, then again believe, then disbelieve and thereafter go on increasing in disbelief, Allah will never forgive them, nor guide them to any way of deliverance." (4.138)

After reading these verses is there any doubt as to what is the Islamic punishment of apostasy.

Finally, the Quran closes the argument by saying "There is no compulsion in religion for the right way is clear from the wrong" (2.257). Therefore, according to the Quran, itself, only a religion that could not prove its arguments through logical reasoning is one that would urge conversions by sword.

 

[England my lionheart]

"A section of the people of the Book urge some from among themselves: why not affirm, in the early part of the day, belief in that which has been revealed unto the believers and repudiate it in the latter part of the day, perchance they may turn away from their faith." (3.73)

This used to happen. But these people were never punished.

"Those who believe, then disbelieve, then again believe, then disbelieve and thereafter go on increasing in disbelief, Allah will never forgive them, nor guide them to any way of deliverance." (4.138)

After reading these verses is there any doubt as to what is the Islamic punishment of apostasy.

Finally, the Quran closes the argument by saying "There is no compulsion in religion for the right way is clear from the wrong" (2.257). Therefore, according to the Quran, itself, only a religion that could not prove its arguments through logical reasoning is one that would urge conversions by sword.

After reading the Ahadiths,there is no doubt what the punishment for Apostacy is,just to qualify – The apostate. The apostate is one who disbelieves after being a Muslim, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever changes his religion, execute him.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 6524.Â
this is from Islamonline.com.
Quran only Muslims have obviously diguarded the Ahadith for obvious reasons,lets hope many more will follow.

 

[.lava]

After reading the Ahadiths,there is no doubt what the punishment for Apostacy is.

sure there is no doubt? how come?

.

 

[Alla Prima]

sure there is no doubt? how come?

.

Because the Hadith says kill apostates. Can't get clearer than that.

 

[Alla Prima]

"A section of the people of the Book urge some from among themselves: why not affirm, in the early part of the day, belief in that which has been revealed unto the believers and repudiate it in the latter part of the day, perchance they may turn away from their faith." (3.73)

This used to happen. But these people were never punished.

"Those who believe, then disbelieve, then again believe, then disbelieve and thereafter go on increasing in disbelief, Allah will never forgive them, nor guide them to any way of deliverance." (4.138)

After reading these verses is there any doubt as to what is the Islamic punishment of apostasy.

Finally, the Quran closes the argument by saying "There is no compulsion in religion for the right way is clear from the wrong" (2.257). Therefore, according to the Quran, itself, only a religion that could not prove its arguments through logical reasoning is one that would urge conversions by sword.

I can't imagine a worse punishment for Muslims who believe in Allah.

 

[England my lionheart]

sure there is no doubt? how come?

.

Come now Lava,you know as well as i do the Ahadith condemns the Apostate,i truly wish all Muslims would follow the Quran alone which was surely the original idea.

 

[Alla Prima]

Come now Lava,you know as well as i do the Ahadith condemns the Apostate,i truly wish all Muslims would follow the Quran alone which was surely the original idea.

For a Muslim, as tariqkhwaja brought to our attention (though it was 4.137 not .138), the Koran spells much worse for apostates than merely killing them.They're condemned for all time and Allah won't help them.

 

[Alla Prima]

Finally, the Quran closes the argument by saying "There is no compulsion in religion for the right way is clear from the wrong" (2.257). Therefore, according to the Quran, itself, only a religion that could not prove its arguments through logical reasoning is one that would urge conversions by sword.

I'm not sure I follow you. Could you explain further?

 

[England my lionheart]

For a Muslim, as tariqkhwaja brought to our attention (though it was 4.137 not .138), the Koran spells much worse for apostates than merely killing them.They're condemned for all time and Allah won't help them. This clearly reveals the absolute evil nature of Allah. I can't imagine why anyone would acknowledge the existence of such a deity let alone worship him. From evil minds spring evil gods.

I see nothing attractive in the religion

 

[Alla Prima]

I see nothing attractive in the religion

For me there is almost nothing attractive. Certainly any value it does have is swallowed up by the hate towards all that reject it's message and messenger. Just as it takes a particular mind to accept Born Again Christianity it takes a particular mind to be attracted to Islam. I don't see the rise of Islam as a sign of it's quality but rather the deficiency of it's members. We could no more accept Islam than we could child abuse. Not in our DNA.

 

[England my lionheart]

I think you are right,it does seem to attract a certain type of person,apart from those who are born into it i could see no reason to follow Islam.

 

[Kodanshi]

For a Muslim, as tariqkhwaja brought to our attention (though it was 4.137 not .138), the Koran spells much worse for apostates than merely killing them.They're condemned for all time and Allah won't help them. This clearly reveals the absolute evil nature of Allah. I can't imagine why anyone would acknowledge the existence of such a deity let alone worship him. From evil minds spring evil gods.

Huh. It gets worse, believe it or not. A few passages here and there in the Qur’ân talk about Satan the tempter… BUT numerous passages (I’ve started collecting them, and have reached 5 pages’ worth, and only the 7th Surah yet!) talk about allah actively leading people astray, deceiving them, and putting seals on their hearts, heaviness in their minds so they cannot listen to or understand the message of Islâm, etc. So not only do you get predestination and a form of fatalism, but allah itself condemns people for not accepting Islâm, when allah itself has caused them not to accept the religion!

:no:

THE MIND BOGGLES!

 

[.lava]

Because the Hadith says kill apostates. Can't get clearer than that.

book of Islam the religion without any adds or wrongs is Qur'an. and i can not get clearer than that.

.

 

[England my lionheart]

book of Islam the religion without any adds or wrongs is Qur'an. and i can not get clearer than that.

.

To you Lava but what of the other millions of Muslims

 

[.lava]

Huh. It gets worse, believe it or not. A few passages here and there in the Qur’ân talk about Satan the tempter… BUT numerous passages (I’ve started collecting them, and have reached 5 pages’ worth, and only the 7th Surah yet!) talk about allah actively leading people astray, deceiving them, and putting seals on their hearts, heaviness in their minds so they cannot listen to or understand the message of Islâm, etc. So not only do you get predestination and a form of fatalism, but allah itself condemns people for not accepting Islâm, when allah itself has caused them not to accept the religion!

:no:

THE MIND BOGGLES!

every single human being makes his own choice. Allah lets things happen. so if Allah did not let it happen, then noone could find th right path. for those who wish to reach God, doors are never closed.


6:148 Those who give partners (to Allah) will say: "If Allah had wished, we should not have given partners to Him nor would our fathers; nor should we have had any taboos." So did their ancestors argue falsely, until they tasted of Our wrath. Say: "Have ye any (certain) knowledge? If so, produce it before us. Ye follow nothing but conjecture: ye do nothing but lie."

.

 

[.lava]

To you Lava but what of the other millions of Muslims

yea and don't you know i am aware of certain things? the point that i do not understand about your perception is...there are maybe two dozens of Muslims here. from different nations, different cultures...etc. and you choose to take words of a few to make conclusion about MILLIONS! see my point?

.

 

[England my lionheart]

yea and don't you know i am aware of certain things? the point that i do not understand about your perception is...there are maybe two dozens of Muslims here. from different nations, different cultures...etc. and you choose to take words of a few to make conclusion about MILLIONS! see my point?

.

Yes Lava,i see your point but you miss mine,the point is the majority of Muslims are still living 1400 years in the past,following Ahadith that were ok 1400 years ago but are now extinct.
Lets take Apostates for example,some Muslims accept the Ahadith of 1400 years ago for now and the Hadeeth really do say kill the Apostate but that was then and this is now,unlike you they cannot differentiate.

 

[Alla Prima]

book of Islam the religion without any adds or wrongs is Qur'an. and i can not get clearer than that.

.

But you're intentionally ignoring a book second only to the Koran. You are free to ignore it but ignoring it does not lessen it's importance in the Islamic world.

 

[Alla Prima]

every single human being makes his own choice. Allah lets things happen. so if Allah did not let it happen, then noone could find th right path. for those who wish to reach God, doors are never closed.

This does not apply to me.

 

[Alla Prima]

Huh. It gets worse, believe it or not. A few passages here and there in the Qur’ân talk about Satan the tempter… BUT numerous passages (I’ve started collecting them, and have reached 5 pages’ worth, and only the 7th Surah yet!) talk about allah actively leading people astray, deceiving them, and putting seals on their hearts, heaviness in their minds so they cannot listen to or understand the message of Islâm, etc. So not only do you get predestination and a form of fatalism, but allah itself condemns people for not accepting Islâm, when allah itself has caused them not to accept the religion!

:no:

THE MIND BOGGLES!

Agreed. It sure boggles my mind. Maybe one has to be insane. Don't know.