Apostates of Islam

[.lava]

"All Muslim jurists agree that the apostate is to be punished. However, they differ regarding the punishment itself. The majority of them go for killing; meaning that an apostate is to be sentenced to death." -- Islamic scholar Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi

by majority it means majority of scholars, right? this is why Mahdi (PBUH) has a duty.

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[Alla Prima]

that's a lie.

Do you even know what a lie is? I was mistaken about the mother being pregnant however she is reported to have had a child at her breast at the time of her assassination.

FROM THE SIRAT RASUL ALLAH, by Ibn Ishaq (A. Guilaume's translation "The Life of Muhammad") page 675, 676.

"UMAYR B. ADIYY'S JOURNEY TO KILL ASMA D. MARWAN

"She was of B. Umayyya b. Zayd. When Abu Afak had been killed she displayed disaffection. Abdullah b. al-Harith b. Al-Fudayl from his father said that she was married to a man of B. Khatma called Yazid b. Zayd. Blaming Islam and its followers she said:

"I despise B. Malik and al-Nabit
and Auf and B. al-Khazraj.
You obey a stranger who is none of yours,
One not of Murad or Madhhij. {1}
Do you expect good from him after the killing of your chiefs
Like a hungry man waiting for a cook's broth?
Is there no man of pride who would attack him by surprise
And cut off the hopes of those who expect aught from him?"


Hassan b. Thabit answered her:

"Banu Wa'il and B. Waqif and Khatma
Are inferior to B. al-Khazrahj.
When she called for folly woe to her in her weeping,
For death is coming.
She stirred up a man of glorious origin,
Noble in his going out and in his coming in.
Before midnight he dyed her in her blood
And incurred no guilt thereby."


When the apostle heard what she had said he said, "Who will rid me of Marwan's daughter?" Umayr b. Adiy al-Khatmi who was with him heard him, and that very night he went to her house and killed her. In the morning he came to the apostle and told him what he had done and he [Muhammad] said, "You have helped God and His apostle, O Umayr!" When he asked if he would have to bear any evil consequences the apostle said, "Two goats won't butt their heads about her", so Umayr went back to his people.

Abu Afak was also assassinated by Muhammad.

 

[England my lionheart]

by majority it means majority of scholars, right? this is why Mahdi (PBUH) has a duty.

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The twelth Immam,i thought he only turns up for the end time,which one do you mean,Abu al-Qasim Muhammad AKA Muhammad al Mahdi for twelver Shias who believe he is hidden or do you mean the one Mr. Ahmadinejad of Iran says he has a written contract with.

 

[.lava]

The twelth Immam,i thought he only turns up for the end time,which one do you mean,Abu al-Qasim Muhammad AKA Muhammad al Mahdi for twelver Shias who believe he is hidden or do you mean the one Mr. Ahmadinejad of Iran says he has a written contract with.

we are in end times. except for a few, all the signs has occured already. by Mahdi (PBUH) i mean 'Mahdi' of end times who's given duty to clean religion from bidat and bring back what's forgotten. you know Mahdi is a concept just like dejjal? there've been many Mahdis and dejjals but only Mahdi (PBUH) has this special duty that concerns whole world, all Muslims, same goes with dejjal too. Ahmadinejad has a contract with him? i do not know about that.

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[Gharib]

Abu Afak was also assassinated by Muhammad.

saying it and proving it are like comparing the day and the night.

 

[Alla Prima]

saying it and proving it are like comparing the day and the night.

Well you know you can say that about any claim Islam makes can't you. :yes:

 

[.lava]

Well you know you can say that about any claim Islam makes can't you. :yes:

Islam does not "claim" therefor he probably would not.

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[England my lionheart]

we are in end times. except for a few, all the signs has occured already. by Mahdi (PBUH) i mean 'Mahdi' of end times who's given duty to clean religion from bidat and bring back what's forgotten. you know Mahdi is a concept just like dejjal? there've been many Mahdis and dejjals but only Mahdi (PBUH) has this special duty that concerns whole world, all Muslims, same goes with dejjal too. Ahmadinejad has a contract with him? i do not know about that.

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All streams of Islam believe in a divine saviour, known as the Mahdi, who will appear at the End of Days. A common rumour - denied by the government but widely believed - is that Mr Ahmadinejad and his cabinet have signed a "contract" pledging themselves to work for the return of the Mahdi and sent it to Jamkaran.

 

[.lava]

All streams of Islam believe in a divine saviour, known as the Mahdi, who will appear at the End of Days. A common rumour - denied by the government but widely believed - is that Mr Ahmadinejad and his cabinet have signed a "contract" pledging themselves to work for the return of the Mahdi and sent it to Jamkaran.

what's Jamkaran? well, if that is the truth that is good news. Mahdi (PBUH) would not do wrongs.

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[Alla Prima]

Islam does not "claim" therefor he probably would not.

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"All are born Islam"

saying it and proving it are like comparing the day and the night.

A claim Islam cannot prove.

 

[England my lionheart]

what's Jamkaran? well, if that is the truth that is good news. Mahdi (PBUH) would not do wrongs.

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Jamkaran is a Mosque i think

 

[keithnurse]

Back to business folks,this from the Apostacy of Azam Kamguian,you can catch the whole story The Fate of Infidels and Apostates under Islam | International Humanist and Ethical Union


In a feeble attempt to disguise the Islamic attitude to apostasy, apologists often quote the Koranic verse: "There shall be no compulsion in religion". For a Muslim wishing to leave Islam this is simply not true. In Yemen it's punishable by death as it is in Iran, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan under the Taliban and other Islamic states. The most famous incidence of Apostasy was in 1989 when Ayatollah Khomeini announced a fatwa, or death sentence against Salman Rushdie for his alleged apostasy in writing "The Satanic Verses". In a similar vein in Iran in July 1998 a man was executed for allegedly converting a Muslim woman to the Baha'i faith, this was even though the woman claimed that her mother was Baha'i and that she was raised according to that faith. Freedom House's Centre for Religious Freedom recently protested the forthcoming trial, before a Sharia court of Islamic law, of Hamid Pourmand, the 47 year old lay leader of a small Assemblies of God church in the southern port city of Bandar-i-Bushehr. Pourmand, a convert from Islam, is facing charges of apostasy from Islam and proselytising Muslims, both capital offences in Iran. The government of Iran puts someone on trial for his life solely for his religious belief. The state's criminalisation of apostasy is always subject to political manipulation and indicates an absolute negation of individual rights and freedom. Iran applies an extremist interpretation of Shiite Islamic law or Sharia, which harshly represses the free expression of belief, including religious conversion by Muslims. Iran's Sharia courts view non-Muslims as second-class citizens, whose testimony is given less weight than Muslims, and sometimes even as non-persons, without any legal protections.

Thanks so much for this information. More Americans need to be informed about Islams evil apostasy laws. Genuine religions of peace don't even contain any CONCEPT of putting people to death just for leaving the religion.

 

[Gharib]

Thanks so much for this information. More Americans need to be informed about Islams evil apostasy laws. Genuine religions of peace don't even contain any CONCEPT of putting people to death just for leaving the religion.

is that all?

 

[ayani]

eselam ~

in the minds of many, many people, "peace" is a kin to at the very least an absence of violence, the taking of life, and bloodshed. peace for many also lends itself to notions such as "live and let live", forgiveness, and kindness to people with whom one does not agree.

so for most non-Muslims, eselam, the concept of taking someone's life if they chose to leave Islam does not come across as very peaceful, gracious, forgiving, or lenient. once a life is taken, it can't come back. at least, not under normal circumstances. were you or i to be killed right now, we'd have no chance to come back, hug our loved ones, enjoy the sunshine, or live out the rest of our natural life. death in that sense is final for us humans. to take a person's life away from them for a reason such as renouncng a faith is regarded by most to be extreme, unkind, lacking in compassion, and certainly far from a peaceful measure.

 

[Gharib]

eselam ~

in the minds of many, many people, "peace" is a kin to at the very least an absence of violence, the taking of life, and bloodshed. peace for many also lends itself to notions such as "live and let live", forgiveness, and kindness to people with whom one does not agree.

so for most non-Muslims, eselam, the concept of taking someone's life if they chose to leave Islam does not come across as very peaceful, gracious, forgiving, or lenient. once a life is taken, it can't come back. at least, not under normal circumstances. were you or i to be killed right now, we'd have no chance to come back, hug our loved ones, enjoy the sunshine, or live out the rest of our natural life. death in that sense is final for us humans. to take a person's life away from them for a reason such as renouncng a faith is regarded by most to be extreme, unkind, lacking in compassion, and certainly far from a peaceful measure.

but it is not like that. non muslims do not ask muslims about islam, but they ask one another. so how can that be allowed, and not only that but then us muslims are accused for their way of thinking and missinterpretations about islam, why should we be responsible for their wrong doing?

here is a good explanation from brother Fatihah for appostates in islam:

Apostacy is mentioned in several places of the qur'an (2:217, 3:86-90, 4:137, 9:66, 9:74, 16:106-109, 4:88-91 and 47:24-27) but in all of those places, the death penalty is not the prescribed punishment. In fact, the death penalty is not prescribed as a punishment for any crime except in ch.5:33 and 45 in which the reason is due to killing someone else or in self defense or causing mischief and disorder in the land or waging war against islam.

But here is the important part. In verse 34 of the same chapter we read "Except those who repent before you have them in your power. So know that Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful".

Also in ch.2:178 the death penalty is also mentioned but is followed by the option of providing blood-money as a punishment for the victims family if they choose so instead of death.

In summary, where ever the death sentence is mentioned in the qur'an, it is an option to certain crimes, not mandatory. And if the victim repents and wants peace, we as muslims must grant it to them.

Now the issue of apostacy. In ch. 4:88-91, we are told that the muslims were in a disagreement as to how to deal with the hypocrites. You see, there is a difference between a hypocrite and an apostate. A hypocrite is one who declares themself as a muslim and/or goes about preaching to others to follow the religion of islam but all the while they them self do not practice what they preach . An apostate on the other hand is one who openly declares themself as a muslim or take the shahada but later they openly reject the religion. The solution was for the hypocrites to migrate with Muhammad as a test to their faith;(verse 89) for if they are truly muslims they should willingly accept. If they turn away, then seize them and kill them because their turning away would confirm their apostacy.

But now let's read the following verse. (Verse 90)
"Except those who are connected with a people between whom and you there is a pact, or those who come to you, while their hearts shrink from fighting you or fighting their own people. And if Allah had pleased, He could have given them power against you, then they would have surely fought you. So, if they keep aloof from you and fight you not, and make you an offer of peace, then Allah has allowed you no way against them".

This verse confirms that death is not a mandatory punishment for apostacy for if it was then Allah would not say to grant them peace if they wished to do so.

So in conclusion, the death sentence is the punishment for apostacy but we must keep in mind that if the apostates ask for peace and does not cause any war, we as muslims must grant it. Hope this helps.

 

[ayani]

So in conclusion, the death sentence is the punishment for apostasy but we must keep in mind that if the apostates ask for peace and does not cause any war, we as muslims must grant it. Hope this helps.

thank you very much, Eselam, that does help.

so, what would it mean that the apostate asks for peace? he or she is no longer a Muslim and has denounced Islam, that is certain.

under what conditions would this person not be killed? would their expressed desire to be spared of death be enough to wave the death penalty is such a case?

would the individual be permitted to explain to others if asked how and why they left Islam? or would they be asked to keep the reasons for their apostasy and any new faith they professed to themselves, so as not to insult Islam or the faith of Muslims?

thank you again, Eselam, for your answers and help.

 

[Gharib]

thank you very much, Eselam, that does help.

well thank Fatihah, he wrote that.

so, what would it mean that the apostate asks for peace? he or she is no longer a Muslim and has denounced Islam, that is certain.

under what conditions would this person not be killed? would their expressed desire to be spared of death be enough to wave the death penalty is such a case?

would the individual be permitted to explain to others if asked how and why they left Islam? or would they be asked to keep the reasons for their apostasy and any new faith they professed to themselves, so as not to insult Islam or the faith of Muslims?

thank you again, Eselam, for your answers and help.

well i really don't know the answer to that, but i would think that an appostate would not be killed if they converted (left islam) and didn't try to dissprove islam.

many muslims who become non muslims think they have great chances of dissproving islam, simply because they were muslims, and in fact the punishment is for these people, because it is such people that are the hypocrits as mentioned.

they think that they can dissprove islam, and many non muslims would actually believe that person, simply because he was a muslim and has left islam. thats why the punishment of such people is death, he isn't punished immediately after leaving islam but probably after some time and after evidence is gathered that they are an enemie to islam. and you do know that in islam people who spread falsewhood are not liked.

but if a muslim leaves islam and just leaves islam be for the muslims, then i don't think there is a problem with that.

an appostate just probably needs to say that they will not spread falsewhood about islam and they would be left to live their life like everyone else.

Allah says that he would accept the repentance of a muslims who becomes a non muslims and then wants to be a muslim again. and i don't think that would happen in any way appart from leaving them to live and not to kill them.
how would someone become a muslim again if they are dead?

so if someone who leaves islam and does not become an enemie to the religion of Allah (swt) is free to leave islam and join another religion as long as they leave islam alone.

 

[Alla Prima]

but it is not like that. non muslims do not ask muslims about islam, but they ask one another. so how can that be allowed, and not only that but then us muslims are accused for their way of thinking and missinterpretations about islam, why should we be responsible for their wrong doing?

You should be responsible for telling untruths about Islam's position on apostasy. No wonder non Muslims don't listen to Muslims.

 

[Alla Prima]

well i really don't know the answer to that, but i would think that an appostate would not be killed if they converted and didn't try to dissprove islam.

So much for no compulsion to religion. Forced conversion through threat of violence or death is compulsion.

 

[Gharib]

You should be responsible for telling untruths about Islam's position on apostasy. No wonder non Muslims don't listen to Muslims.

so now you know better about islam right?

know you are saying that thats not what islam says about apostacy simply because thats not what you want to hear. and you are accusing me of telling lies about my religion.