Apostates of Islam

[England my lionheart]

The mind boggles indeed

 

[sandandfoam]

I think you are right,it does seem to attract a certain type of person,apart from those who are born into it i could see no reason to follow Islam.

That's quite a generalization.

 

[England my lionheart]

That's quite a generalization.

Well i'm sorry,but that is only my opinion and not of everyone as that would be generalising,anyway it is true.

 

[England my lionheart]

That's quite a generalization.

Really you are right,i should have omitted the last part

 

[Alla Prima]

That's quite a generalization.

Sometimes a generalization is appropriate. Many accurate generalizations can be made about American police officers for instance. Or Buddhists.

 

[Alla Prima]

Here's an appropriate generalization for you. Born Again Christians tend to be judgemental.

 

[Kodanshi]

Agreed. It sure boggles my mind. Maybe one has to be insane. Don't know.

Basically, most of it seems to come in the context of Muhammad having preached the truth of Islam to people only to have them reject it. So it sounds like his way of justifying why they turned away from the truth: because god made it so. This, however, has the unfortunate effect of making god responsible for man's belief or disbelief. So to damn humans to hell for all eternity over something that god itself controls is just the stupidest thing ever.

It's like having a living tin opener, making it open a can of ham, and then damning it to hell forever because it opened the ham instead of a can of tuna.

 

[.lava]

Yes Lava,i see your point but you miss mine,the point is the majority of Muslims are still living 1400 years in the past,following Ahadith that were ok 1400 years ago but are now extinct.
Lets take Apostates for example,some Muslims accept the Ahadith of 1400 years ago for now and the Hadeeth really do say kill the Apostate but that was then and this is now,unlike you they cannot differentiate.

not exactly. Sharia of Allah has never changed. so what's wrong today was wrong 1400 years ago. matter of fact, Islam that people lived during time of the Last Prophet (SAW) was the correct one. whatever contradicts with Qur'an is always wrong regardless which piece of time you live in.

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[Alla Prima]

Basically, most of it seems to come in the context of Muhammad having preached the truth of Islam to people only to have them reject it. So it sounds like his way of justifying why they turned away from the truth: because god made it so. This, however, has the unfortunate effect of making god responsible for man's belief or disbelief. So to damn humans to hell for all eternity over something that god itself controls is just the stupidest thing ever.

It's like having a living tin opener, making it open a can of ham, and then damning it to hell forever because it opened the ham instead of a can of tuna.

This gets saved in my Islam folder for an ongoing consideration. This is pretty good.

 

[England my lionheart]

not exactly. Sharia of Allah has never changed. so what's wrong today was wrong 1400 years ago. matter of fact, Islam that people lived during time of the Last Prophet (SAW) was the correct one. whatever contradicts with Qur'an is always wrong regardless which piece of time you live in.

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So because Muhammed had Apostates killed 1400 years ago he was wrong then and Islamic countries are wrong now by that reasoning.

 

[.lava]

So because Muhammed had Apostates killed 1400 years ago he was wrong then and Islamic countries are wrong now by that reasoning.

in his time nobody got killed because they chosed other path.

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[England my lionheart]

in his time nobody got killed because they chosed other path.

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So the Ahadith is wrong then even though generaly accepted to be authentic which means all Ahadith must be deemed false as verification of an authentic hadith is not possible,any thing else is cherry picking

 

[.lava]

So the Ahadith is wrong then even though generaly accepted to be authentic which means all Ahadith must be deemed false as verification of an authentic hadith is not possible,any thing else is cherry picking

England my lionheart, math here is very simple. let me summarize it.

1-the Book of Islam is Qur'an.
2-Sunnah can not be separated from practices of Islam so we need hadiths.
3-There are fake hadiths that's added in hadith books by people.

as a result, there are some practices in Islam that's based on fake hadiths. a hadith should not contradict with Qur'an. so to speak all those hadiths that violate rights of individual, those hadiths that deny free will of individual contradicts with verse of Qur'an "Let there be no compulsion in religion".

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[England my lionheart]

England my lionheart, math here is very simple. let me summarize it.

1-the Book of Islam is Qur'an.
2-Sunnah can not be separated from practices of Islam so we need hadiths.
3-There are fake hadiths that's added in hadith books by people.

as a result, there are some practices in Islam that's based on fake hadiths. a hadith should not contradict with Qur'an. so to speak all those hadiths that violate rights of individual, those hadiths that deny free will of individual contradicts with verse of Qur'an "Let there be no compulsion in religion".

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Apparently it isn't simple,if a Hadith is sahih it cannot contradict the Quran and you are saying that although certain Ahadith are sahih they are fake,besides ,the proof is in the pudding,people are punished for changing their religion in all Islamic countries and even Egypt who is supposedly secular.
I have,prior to posting,checked that each Ahadith is sahih and innad,i can fathom from it's content it means punishment for Apostacy and unfortunately so can the majority of Muslims.

 

[.lava]

Apparently it isn't simple,if a Hadith is sahih it cannot contradict the Quran and you are saying that although certain Ahadith are sahih they are fake,besides ,the proof is in the pudding,people are punished for changing their religion in all Islamic countries and even Egypt who is supposedly secular.
I have,prior to posting,checked that each Ahadith is sahih and innad,i can fathom from it's content it means punishment for Apostacy and unfortunately so can the majority of Muslims.

majority of Muslims are following their religious leaders. this is not about public. it is about religious leaders. it is going to be fixed someday. all my effort telling you these stuff is to let you know there is difference between Islam in Qur'an and traditional rules in Islamic lands. for now it would remain as theory and it is simple as a theory because reality is very complicated. but God would not let those people ruin Islam. we knew this would happen. Mohammad (PBUH) knew this would happen. but it is also known this is a test for human kind and soon it is going to end and people would go back to real teachings of Islam. now many people are doing a terrible mistake by targeting Islam as an enemy. i hope you non-Muslim people distinguish the difference between Islam and ideology. otherwise you'd be targeting the only thing that could stop crulty in Islamic lands which is Islam. therefor i try to explain. anyways..i think you already know what i am saying here.

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[Alla Prima]

3-There are fake hadiths that's added in hadith books by people.

Is the Sahih Bukhari a fake hadith?

 

[Alla Prima]

in his time nobody got killed because they chosed other path.

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Nonsense. People got killed merely for criticizing Islam. One was a pregnant woman.

 

[England my lionheart]

"All Muslim jurists agree that the apostate is to be punished. However, they differ regarding the punishment itself. The majority of them go for killing; meaning that an apostate is to be sentenced to death." -- Islamic scholar Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi

 

[.lava]

Nonsense. People got killed merely for criticizing Islam. One was a pregnant woman.

that's a lie. No Muslim is commanded by Allah to kill people for critizing this or that. we're not commanded to harm people for mocking;

4:140 And indeed He has revealed to you in the Book that when you hear Allah's communications disbelieved in and mocked at do not sit with them until they enter into some other discourse; surely then you would be like them; surely Allah will gather together the hypocrites and the unbelievers all in hell.

Alla Prima, you are ready to believe any negative thing you hear about Muslims and Islam. that is something you chose. as you said earlier you even have a folder about ıslam, probably a folder where you collect any idea or angle on "how to attack Islam" for God's sake! you can not be objective.

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[Alla Prima]

in his time nobody got killed because they chosed other path.

I wonder where these guys got this idea.

The punishment for apostasy from Islam is a controversial topic for Muslims living in the West and for ex-Muslims everywhere. That’s because Islam teaches that apostates are to be killed. We know from historic Islamic documents that during Muhammad's lifetime, and the lifetimes of the next four "Rightly Guided Caliphs", tens of thousands of Muslims left the faith of Islam and thousands were killed. On a large scale the Muslims made war on groups that chose to leave Islam and massacres of apostates occurred. On a smaller scale individual apostates were executed. This death sentence is in effect whether or not the apostasy occurred in or out of the Islamic state.

http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/apostasy.htm