Are All Ten Commandments Binding on WHO?

[Dunemeister]

I'll accept that yet romans also goes on to show that both Gentiles and jews will be united into a "new man" and that the Law was abolished (in which are the Ten Commandments) through Christ.

"[12] That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
[13] But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
[14] For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
[15] Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man..." Romans 11 KJV

The abolition of the law means that it no longer serves as a divider between Jews and Gentiles. First-century Jews used certain aspects of the law, in particular Sabbath-keeping, circumcision, and kosher dietary practices, as a kind of fence, separating themselves from the pagan world. Thus they viewed themselves as the people of God precisely because they followed these practices. The Gentiles, because they didn't practice these things, were decidedly not part of the people of God.

Paul is telling his Jewish countrymen that, in the renewed people of God centred on Jesus, these practices, although healthy in and of themselves, no longer stand as a barrier between Gentiles and participation in the covenant promises. A Gentile can come to faith in Jesus and be fully justified (i.e., his claim to be part of the people of God will be vindicated) apart from "the works of the law." So according to Paul, the law has not been rendered obsolete or mute or irrelevant or anything like that. It hasn't been abolished in the sense that it's no longer operative at all. Rather, the law has been properly relativized so that an international people of God can emerge. The law, in the sense of a mechanism to separate Jew from Gentile, has been abolished. But the law is still good and righteous (Romans 7).

 

[Arlanbb]

That is all and good BUT what about all the people in this world and all those that have died in the past worlds that never heard about the 10 Comandments or the so called law of Noah. How do they fit in? arlan

 

[Dunemeister]

That is all and good BUT what about all the people in this world and all those that have died in the past worlds that never heard about the 10 Comandments or the so called law of Noah. How do they fit in? arlan

The Law of Noah is basically what is common sense to all cultures. They are:

1. You shall not have idols. Corollary: You shall worship the Creator rather than the creation.
2. You shall not murder.
3. You shall not steal.
4. You shall not be sexually promiscuous.
5. You shall not blaspheme (speak salaciously, ill, or slanderously of) God.
6. You must kill an animal before you eat it.
7. You must create and enforce just laws.

From a biblical perspective, only self-deluded fools deny the existence of the creator, so laws 1 and 5 are not a problem. I don't say this to prompt protest but only to indicate the biblical perspective on the question. Even if you've never heard of these seven laws, it's pretty safe to say that they're common sense. Standard ethical awareness emplants them in the human heart. To seriously oppose these laws is to get involved in the grossest of tomfoolery.

What's noteworthy here is that, apart from the question of idolatry and blasphemy, it seems that the Gentiles are pretty free to conceive of God any way they like. The main problem for them is that they must not slander God or reduce him to something of the created order.

 

[Jehonadab]

The commandments are binding on anyone who hears them. It's like if you're a kid and you aren't aware of the laws. If you do something wrong, but didn't know it was wrong, there isn't any guilt. But if you know that there are things you shouldn't do and do them anyway, that's breaking a law.

Galations 3:10-14 "...Christ by purchase released us from the curse of the law.."

The Sabbath is the 7th day of the week Saturday or in spanish Sabado but as was mentioned in AK4's comments at Col 2:16-17 that is no longer the case.

The Israelites were God's chosen people and the 10 commandments served to set them apart from other nations.

 

[Dunemeister]

Galations 3:10-14 "...Christ by purchase released us from the curse of the law.."

Yes, but not the "bindingness" of the law. The law is "just and right and good." It cannot produce righteousness, but that doesn't mean it no longer applies.

 

[Jehonadab]

Yes, but not the "bindingness" of the law. The law is "just and right and good." It cannot produce righteousness, but that doesn't mean it no longer applies.

I understand you point and do not dispute it. Yes the law is right and good but we are not bound to it like the Israelites were...

as for the infamous 4th commandment, we are not bound to a particular day to set aside time to reflect on the blessings God has given each one of us.

 

[Jehonadab]

That is all and good BUT what about all the people in this world and all those that have died in the past worlds that never heard about the 10 Comandments or the so called law of Noah. How do they fit in? arlan

Acts 24:15 speaks of a resurrection of both the righteous and unrighteous..perhaps they will be in this group.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

The abolition of the law means that it no longer serves as a divider between Jews and Gentiles. First-century Jews used certain aspects of the law, in particular Sabbath-keeping, circumcision, and kosher dietary practices, as a kind of fence, separating themselves from the pagan world. Thus they viewed themselves as the people of God precisely because they followed these practices. The Gentiles, because they didn't practice these things, were decidedly not part of the people of God.

Paul is telling his Jewish countrymen that, in the renewed people of God centred on Jesus, these practices, although healthy in and of themselves, no longer stand as a barrier between Gentiles and participation in the covenant promises. A Gentile can come to faith in Jesus and be fully justified (i.e., his claim to be part of the people of God will be vindicated) apart from "the works of the law." So according to Paul, the law has not been rendered obsolete or mute or irrelevant or anything like that. It hasn't been abolished in the sense that it's no longer operative at all. Rather, the law has been properly relativized so that an international people of God can emerge. The law, in the sense of a mechanism to separate Jew from Gentile, has been abolished. But the law is still good and righteous (Romans 7).

I would argue, in light of Galatians, that the Mosaic law was abolished because it saves no one. It is the law of faith in Christ which leads to righteousness and salvation.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Mixed up messages? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight! I tell what would be a mixed up message--Paul telling you at one time the Law is abolished then at another time hes telling you he keeps it. Now the only way he cant be contradicting himself is if hes talking about the spiritual law ---

1Co 2:13 - Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual
Ro 7:14 - For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Now go ahead and try to find scriptures that says the law isnt spiritual. And so once again since the law is spiritual, it is on everyone.

As for my english---wlel gee i hvae olny been lvinig in armecia for my wohle lfie and snice its the olny lgnaague i konw wlel waht can i say, mbaye you slohud sduty it mroe buaecse SPIRITUALLY THE WORD OF GOD FLOWS PERFECTLY. To you apparently it doesnt, it contradicts itself.

All that blather is nice, yet let me postulate this: you say that the law is spiritual and therefore applies to New Testament Christians: Let me offer an analogy, the doctor says you should eat bananas for your heart health. You know that bananas are a fruit but you like apples, which also are a fruit, better, so you eat apples instead. Analysis, yes, the Mosaic Law is spiritual yet that in no way means it applies to the New Testament Christians' need. Try reading Galatians a little more carefully.

 

[Poisonshady313]

, that the Mosaic law was abolished because it saves no one.

abolished? That's a neat trick for something that's eternal.

saves no one? It was never the goal of the law to "save" anyone. At Sinai, the 2 million Jews receiving the Torah were not concerned with heaven or hell. All they wanted was to live in their own land, free from oppression and subjugation... and the law describes the best way to do that... how to live your life according to God's will. It's a continual process. It's not a checklist that you throw away once you get to the end of it. There is no end to something that is eternal.

To claim that the law is abolished... you might as well claim that God's authority over you is abolished. If God's word and God's law is null and void... then what good is God?

 

[Poisonshady313]

It cannot produce righteousness,

This is where one of the fundamental differences between Judaism and Christianity is.

Christians speak of "righteousness" as if it's a ticket of admission to get into heaven.

Jews speak of righteousness as a status of being an upright citizen, worthy of such blessings from God as long, healthy life, successful livelihood, many children, freedom from those who would plot to do evil against them.

we don't live to die. We live to live.

I don't believe that our sole purpose on this earth is to figure out how to get into heaven.

I refuse to believe that we humans are nothing more to God than rats trying to find the cheese at the end of the maze.

 

[mikmik]

abolished? That's a neat trick for something that's eternal.

saves no one? It was never the goal of the law to "save" anyone. At Sinai, the 2 million Jews receiving the Torah were not concerned with heaven or hell. All they wanted was to live in their own land, free from oppression and subjugation... and the law describes the best way to do that... how to live your life according to God's will. It's a continual process. It's not a checklist that you throw away once you get to the end of it. There is no end to something that is eternal.

To claim that the law is abolished... you might as well claim that God's authority over you is abolished. If God's word and God's law is null and void... then what good is God?

Well said!

 

[Ben Masada]

This is where one of the fundamental differences between Judaism and Christianity is.

Christians speak of "righteousness" as if it's a ticket of admission to get into heaven.

Jews speak of righteousness as a status of being an upright citizen, worthy of such blessings from God as long, healthy life, successful livelihood, many children, freedom from those who would plot to do evil against them.

we don't live to die. We live to live.

I don't believe that our sole purpose on this earth is to figure out how to get into heaven.

I refuse to believe that we humans are nothing more to God than rats trying to find the cheese at the end of the maze.

+++++++++++++++++++++++

Way to go Poinsonshady! And I am with you all the way!

Ben

 

[mikmik]

This is where one of the fundamental differences between Judaism and Christianity is.

Christians speak of "righteousness" as if it's a ticket of admission to get into heaven.

Jews speak of righteousness as a status of being an upright citizen, worthy of such blessings from God as long, healthy life, successful livelihood, many children, freedom from those who would plot to do evil against them.

we don't live to die. We live to live.

I don't believe that our sole purpose on this earth is to figure out how to get into heaven.

I refuse to believe that we humans are nothing more to God than rats trying to find the cheese at the end of the maze.

Very well said!! I have always seen it more like today's Christian uses the name of Jesus Christ more like a password. Nothing else really matters as long as you don't forget the password that gets you through the door to eternal life.. no other requirements are needed. Jesus is not a password, He is The Way. He is our example of how to live in a way that is pleasing to our Father. He came here to do the will of the Father that sent Him. He kept the commandments, and expanded them to include the spirit in which they were intended, He kept the Sabbaths (weekly and annual). And I am not trying to take anything from the Jewish faith at all by saying this; Quite frankly, I don't see why Christians today would even have to care when, why or to whom these commandments were given in the past.. Simplify it for yourselves.. If you are a Christian, than you should strive to be Christ-like. It would seem like a very simple concept. Pop culture says "What would Jesus do?" Well, open the book and read it for yourself, but then don't spend your days and nights justifying away what you see. If He, in His perfect wisdom, saw something as the right thing to do, who in the heck am I to question, to argue, or to use my imperfect mind to reason my way out of it? Now that being said, when I do look back to when, why and to whom these things were given, it absolutely does drive home the fact that it all works together as a part God's grand plan!

mik

 

[mikmik]

+++++++++++++++++++++++

Way to go Poinsonshady! And I am with you all the way!

Ben

Hey Ben! Long time no, um, type? Hey, when did you say that you fast, is that coming up for you soon?

mik

 

[Poisonshady313]

Thank you, ben and mik.

 

[Ben Masada]

Hey Ben! Long time no, um, type? Hey, when did you say that you fast, is that coming up for you soon?

mik

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

On the ninth of this month. This coming Thursday. It's called Yom Kippur. I hope the
Arabs won't attack us as they did in 1973, thinking that by catching us hungry they would succeed to push us into the sea.

Ben :clap

 

[sandy whitelinger]

abolished? That's a neat trick for something that's eternal.

saves no one? It was never the goal of the law to "save" anyone. At Sinai, the 2 million Jews receiving the Torah were not concerned with heaven or hell. All they wanted was to live in their own land, free from oppression and subjugation... and the law describes the best way to do that... how to live your life according to God's will. It's a continual process. It's not a checklist that you throw away once you get to the end of it. There is no end to something that is eternal.

To claim that the law is abolished... you might as well claim that God's authority over you is abolished. If God's word and God's law is null and void... then what good is God?

Mine is a New Testament position.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Christians speak of "righteousness" as if it's a ticket of admission to get into heaven.

Christians who believe that are mistaken.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

... Quite frankly, I don't see why Christians today would even have to care when, why or to whom these commandments were given in the past.. Simplify it for yourselves.. If you are a Christian, than you should strive to be Christ-like. It would seem like a very simple concept. Pop culture says "What would Jesus do?" Well, open the book and read it for yourself, but then don't spend your days and nights justifying away what you see. If He, in His perfect wisdom, saw something as the right thing to do, who in the heck am I to question, to argue, or to use my imperfect mind to reason my way out of it? Now that being said, when I do look back to when, why and to whom these things were given, it absolutely does drive home the fact that it all works together as a part God's grand plan!

mik

Very well said. Living the Christian life transcends following the Law.