Are All Ten Commandments Binding on WHO?

[mikmik]

Yet the New Testament (Galations I believe) says that believers are grafted into the seed of Abraham and not into Judaism. Ergo, the Ten Commandment are not rules of Law for Christianity

Yes, grafted into the seed of Abraham,, just like Judah was of the seed of Abraham.

Christianity is not separate from the old covenent, Christianity is rooted in it...

Rom 11.14 if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. 15 For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16 For if the firstfruit is holy , the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the brancheswere broken off, and youbeing a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, 18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.

Gen 18.19 For I have known him, in order that he may command his children and his household after him, that they keep the way of the LORD, to do righteousness and justice, that the LORD may bring to Abraham what He has spoken to him.” (Abraham was chosen by God because he followed God's laws and practiced righteousness, and taught all of his descendants to do likewise.)

Gen 26.4 And I will make your descendants multiply as the stars of heaven; I will give to your descendants all these lands; and in your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; 5 because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.” (More than one nation talked about here.. and Abraham was chosen because of his obedience to his Father (following the commandments), and that made him worthy of this blessing and covenents.)

Gal 3.27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

mik

 

[Dunemeister]

Heb 8:10 -For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 10:16 - This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; God wrote them on the tablets of stone--symbolizing the heart of isrealites at the time.
Eze 11:19 - I will give them an undivided heart and put a new spirit in them; I will remove from them their heart of stone and give them a heart of flesh.
Eze 36:26 - I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.
He will give all the Isreal a heart of flesh to be circumcised in the heart to follow His commandments.

These passages talk about the promise of the new covenant, which involves a new relationship with God mediated directly by the Spirit rather than by a written code of laws. In other words, the ten commandments (we'll let that stand for now as "the law") will no longer be an external command but an inner reality, enforced by the Holy Spirit's influence on a believer. You still haven't (and these passages don't) answer the question of the OP: On whom are the ten commandments binding?

And who are the true Jews in Gods eyes...

Ro 2:28 - A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical.
Ro 2:29 - No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God.

Okay, so a "Jew" is one who has been "inwardly circumcized". But these passages (and you) don't say whether the ten commandments are binding on such people and in what sense.

And then i could go further and show how all of mankind will be considered a Jew and be saved, but i will leave that for another thread.

Perhaps. But there's still the question whether if a person isn't PRESENTLY a Jew (defined your way) if the Ten Commandments apply to them. If all people are to become Jews in the future, perhaps it's fine and dandy to say that the commandments apply then. The question is whether the law applies to them (non-Jews) NOW.

Now you ask is everyone? again...

Rom 3:29 Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, (i believe thats everyone now) 30 since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised (those who believe)by faith and the uncircumcised (those who dont believe)through that same faith. (i believe that covers everyone again)31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

I think you've misrepresented Paul here a tad. His burden in Romans is to explain how Gentiles can be considered as part of the people of God even though they don't keep the typical Jewish signs of covenant-keeping such as sabbath observation, kosher practices, and circumcision. Paul's answer is that the Gentiles are justified by the same means as Jews: faith in the Creator. The question Paul is anticipating here is whether such a perspective makes the law irrelevant. And he argues forcibly "God forbid!"

So Paul tells us that we (Jews and Gentiles) in fact uphold the law when we put our faith in the Messiah, whether or not we are circumcised, keep kosher, etc. For we are justified by faith.

None of this, as far as you've presented it, answers the OP question.

 

[Arlanbb]

The question is Are all 10 commandments Binding on Who? The commandments are only binding of those that want to follow them. What about the millions of people that had lived on earth before the 10 Commandments were given and the millions of people that have lived on earth after the commandments were given but they had never heard of them. Are they going to be judges by the same rules as say a Christian?? arlan

 

[mikmik]

The question is Are all 10 commandments Binding on Who? The commandments are only binding of those that want to follow them. What about the millions of people that had lived on earth before the 10 Commandments were given and the millions of people that have lived on earth after the commandments were given but they had never heard of them. Are they going to be judges by the same rules as say a Christian?? arlan

Yes, what about those that know nothing about God or His commandments? I'd like to hear your theory on that.

mik

 

[AK4]

These passages talk about the promise of the new covenant, which involves a new relationship with God mediated directly by the Spirit rather than by a written code of laws. In other words, the ten commandments (we'll let that stand for now as "the law") will no longer be an external command but an inner reality, enforced by the Holy Spirit's influence on a believer. You still haven't (and these passages don't) answer the question of the OP: On whom are the ten commandments binding?

Okay, so a "Jew" is one who has been "inwardly circumcized". But these passages (and you) don't say whether the ten commandments are binding on such people and in what sense.

Perhaps. But there's still the question whether if a person isn't PRESENTLY a Jew (defined your way) if the Ten Commandments apply to them. If all people are to become Jews in the future, perhaps it's fine and dandy to say that the commandments apply then. The question is whether the law applies to them (non-Jews) NOW.

I think you've misrepresented Paul here a tad. His burden in Romans is to explain how Gentiles can be considered as part of the people of God even though they don't keep the typical Jewish signs of covenant-keeping such as sabbath observation, kosher practices, and circumcision. Paul's answer is that the Gentiles are justified by the same means as Jews: faith in the Creator. The question Paul is anticipating here is whether such a perspective makes the law irrelevant. And he argues forcibly "God forbid!"

So Paul tells us that we (Jews and Gentiles) in fact uphold the law when we put our faith in the Messiah, whether or not we are circumcised, keep kosher, etc. For we are justified by faith.

None of this, as far as you've presented it, answers the OP question.

Okay since that answer wasnt good enough for you (we will let that be one witness, and its from the NT), lets go another witness, the OT.

Now we know in the OT the law was on all the Isrealites, but what about the gentiles? Was it on them at that time? Glad you asked. Let’s see…

2Ki 19:6 Isaiah said to them, "Tell your master, 'This is what the Lord says: Do not be afraid of what you have heard--those words with which the underlings of the king of Assyria have blasphemed me.

Isa 10:12 When the Lord has finished all his work against Mount Zion and Jerusalem, he will say, "I will punish the king of Assyria for the willful pride of his heart and the haughty look in his eyes.

So he blasphemed God and had what?--pride in his heart (isnt that a sin) and he was a gentile.

And now the big ones

Gen 6:5 The Lord saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time.

Ge 38:7 But Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the Lord's sight; so the Lord put him to death.

Ge 38:10 What he did was wicked in the Lord's sight; so he put him to death also.

Ge 13:13 Now the men of Sodom were wicked and were sinning greatly against the Lord.

Ge 18:23 Then Abraham approached him and said: "Will you sweep away the righteous with the wicked?

All these and many other verses that show that man was wicked or going against a commandment of God are before the ten commandments were even given.

Can these people be wicked or sinning or outside of Gods laws if they were never given the Ten Commandments? Isn’t God Lord over the whole earth? Didn’t He create man with a conscience to know right from wrong? Didn’t He create us with his commandments instilled us, all of mankind?

These are silly questions and really so is this thread. Of course Gods commandments are over all and that’s how all, throughout time, will be held accountable for their sins.

 

[ChristineES]

Here is a question I hope is not offensive: Are Jews just the descendants of Judah (and Benjamin, I believe) or are they the descendants of all 12 tribes of Israel. I have wondered this for a very long time but was too embarrassed to ask it.

I know it is off topic, forgive me.

 

[AK4]

Here is a question I hope is not offensive: Are Jews just the descendants of Judah (and Benjamin, I believe) or are they the descendants of all 12 tribes of Israel. I have wondered this for a very long time but was too embarrassed to ask it.

I know it is off topic, forgive me.

Not an bad question at all. Its all 12. Here is a excerpt a good friend has written from his paper on the explanation of the Rich man and Lazarus parable.

HEBREWS, ISRAELITES, AND JEWS​

It all began with Eber [Heber] who was the forefather of all Hebrews (Gen.10:21). Abraham [Abram] was of this lineage and so is an "Hebrew." There were other lines of Hebrews also. God changed Abram’s name to Abraham signifying that he would become a "Father of Many Nations" (Gen. 16:7-11). Abraham had a son Isaac, and Isaac had two sons, Esau and Jacob.
God changed Jacob’s name to "Israel" (Gen.. 32:28). And Israel had twelve sons: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Dan, Napthali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph, and Benjamin (Gen.. 35:23-16), who then became known as "The Children of Israel."
The "Children of Israel" became God’s "chosen" people: "For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto Himself, above all peoples that are upon the face of the earth" (Deut. 7:6).
God’s relationship with Israel was so close that He married them: "For thy Maker is thine husband; the Lord of hosts is His name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall He be called" (Isa. 54:5).
The Tribe of Judah early on was chosen of God to lead in battle (Jg. 1:2). The various Tribes warred against each other during a period of civil wars. They finally became united under two powers, Judah and Israel. David was anointed King of Judah (II Sam. 2:4) and then later King over Israel (II Sam. 5:3).
In I Kg. 12:19-21 Judah (with the tribe of Benjamin) is again at war with Israel. Israel was then known as the "Ten Tribes." Many of the Priests and Levites left Israel and went to Jeru- salem under Judah (II Chron. 11:13).
And so the Kingdom of Israel (with its capital at Samaria), and the Kingdom of Judah (with it’s Capital at Jerusalem) were separate nations for several centuries.
Eventually, Israel was destroyed and driven into captivity by the Assyrians (II Kg. 18:11) and later Judah was destroyed and driven into captivity by Babylon (Jer. 30:9).
Nehemiah comes to power and returns eventually to Jerusalem to rebuild it, and takes Priests and Levites with him (Neh. 2:1-8). Ezra also returns to Jerusalem with a large company of Jews (Ezra 7:8).

"Even all the Jews returned out of all places whither they were driven..." (Jer. 40:11-12)
​

I doubt that many in Judea and Jerusalem even knew for sure which Tribes they came from by the time of our Lord’s ministry.
To show how dominant Judah was in absorbing all these Tribes and passing on his name to them, look at Judges 17:7:

"And there was a young man out of Bethlehem-judah of the family of Judah, who was a Levite..."
​

He was a Levite who was considered Juhah’s family.
The Priests, of course, did have to know their lineage or they would not be qualified for the Priesthood. Paul was an extremely well-educated man and therefore did know his lineage. So let’s see if this makes sense now. With all these things in mind, maybe we can better understand how these different names are used and applied to even the same person.
Paul, for example, was an Hebrew (Phil. 3:5) through Abraham (Rom. 11:1), and through Isaac, was an Israelite through Israel (Rom. 11:1), was a Benjamite through the Tribe of Benjamin (Rom. 11:1), from Tarsus of Cilicia (Acts 21:39), was educated in Jerusalem, was trained a Pharisee, under Gamaliel, spoke Hebrew & Greek (Acts 22:2-3), was also a Roman (Acts 16:37), and also calls himself A JEW (Acts 21:39).
So here’s what happened. In the Old Testament all Jews were Israelites, but not all Israelites were Jews. Like all Floridians are Americans, but not all Americans are Floridians. But, because Judah was always the dominant Tribe and Israel was once again gathered in Judea under Judah’s leadership, and because many of the individual Tribes became so mixed in inter- tribal and interracial marriage, many became designated as "Jews" in the New Testament. Even today, many known "Jews" may really be "Danites" or "Reubenites" etc. Many thinking themselves Gentiles could really be descendants of Israelites or Jews or other lines of Hebrews and not even know it..
I always considered myself a "Gentile" until a recent trip to Germany and Amsterdam, where I talked to different people about the early immigrants to America. My last name was "Schmidt" two hundred years ago, but when I mentioned other family names in my genealogy they told me: "That’s Jewish, that’s Jewish, etc.," My father was David, his father was Charles, his father was Thomas, his father was Manuel, his father was Isaac, his father was Abraham, and his father was Jacob. They told me that "true Germans" almost never named their children with Hebrew names. So maybe I’m a "Jew." Only God knows for sure.
But the point I want to make is that at the time of our Lord, Judah (the Jews) dominated to the extent that all non-Gentiles were referred to as Jews, although "Israel" as their historical origin was still used. The name "Israel" is used some 120 times in the N.T., while "Jews" is used some 360 times. So they really are used interchangeably. They are all Israelites, but Judah has always dominated. It will be important to keep these things in mind as we discuss this parable.

 

[ChristineES]

Thanks for answering, AK4.

 

[AK4]

Thanks for answering, AK4.

No problem

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Okay since that answer wasnt good enough for you (we will let that be one witness, and its from the NT), lets go another witness, the OT.

Now we know in the OT the law was on all the Isrealites, but what about the gentiles? Was it on them at that time? Glad you asked. Let’s see…

2Ki 19:6 Isaiah said to them, "Tell your master, 'This is what the Lord says: Do not be afraid of what you have heard--those words with which the underlings of the king ofAssyria have blasphemed me.

Isa 10:12 When the Lord has finished all his work against Mount Zion and Jerusalem, he will say, "I will punish the king ofAssyria for the willful pride of his heart and the haughty look in his eyes.

So he blasphemed God and had what?--pride in his heart (isnt that a sin) and he was a gentile.

And now the big ones

Gen 6:5 The Lord saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time.

Ge 38:7 But Er, Judah's firstborn, waswicked in the Lord's sight; so the Lord put him to death.

Ge 38:10 What he did waswicked in the Lord's sight; so he put him to death also.

Ge 13:13 Now the men of Sodom were wicked and were sinning greatly against the Lord.

Ge 18:23 Then Abraham approached him and said: "Will you sweep away the righteous with the wicked?

All these and many other verses that show that man was wicked or going against a commandment of God are before the ten commandments were even given.

Can these people be wicked or sinning or outside of Gods laws if they were never given the Ten Commandments?

You do realize you are contradicting yourself? You are trying to show that the Mosaic Law is binding on everyone by showing that God punished people who were not under the Law. I think you have a slanted view of the Law. What this proves is that there is more to obeying God than what was codefied under the Mosaic Law.

These are silly questions and really so is this thread.

It's only silly because you don't get it.

Of course Gods commandments are over all and that’s how all, throughout time, will be held accountable for their sins.

What you seem to fail to realize is that not all commandments are for everone. For example is was not allowed under Mosaic Law for a Israelite to eat an animal that dropped dead but it was allowable to sell it to a Gentile. I will state this plainly. The Mosaic Law was given to the Jews. Any Gentile who wished to convert to Judaism was then subject to the Law.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Gal 3.27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

mik

"Oh foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you..."

 

[Dunemeister]

The question is Are all 10 commandments Binding on Who? The commandments are only binding of those that want to follow them. What about the millions of people that had lived on earth before the 10 Commandments were given and the millions of people that have lived on earth after the commandments were given but they had never heard of them. Are they going to be judges by the same rules as say a Christian?? arlan

That won't do. What if you're a Jew? Are the ten commandments optional for you? Of course not. Or are there consequences for those who are Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise who elect not to adhere to these laws? Yoobetchya.

 

[Dunemeister]

Okay since that answer wasnt good enough for you (we will let that be one witness, and its from the NT), lets go another witness, the OT.

What made it not good enough was that the scriptures you cited didn't make the points you said they were making.

Now we know in the OT the law was on all the Isrealites, but what about the gentiles? Was it on them at that time? Glad you asked. Let’s see…

2Ki 19:6 Isaiah said to them, "Tell your master, 'This is what the Lord says: Do not be afraid of what you have heard--those words with which the underlings of the king ofAssyria have blasphemed me.

Isa 10:12 When the Lord has finished all his work against Mount Zion and Jerusalem, he will say, "I will punish the king ofAssyria for the willful pride of his heart and the haughty look in his eyes.

So he blasphemed God and had what?--pride in his heart (isnt that a sin) and he was a gentile.

Well, the issue isn't whether there's a general moral law. The question is whether the ten commandments, as a package, are binding on gentiles.

And now the big ones

Gen 6:5 The Lord saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time.

Ge 38:7 But Er, Judah's firstborn, waswicked in the Lord's sight; so the Lord put him to death.

Ge 38:10 What he did waswicked in the Lord's sight; so he put him to death also.

Ge 13:13 Now the men of Sodom were wicked and were sinning greatly against the Lord.

Ge 18:23 Then Abraham approached him and said: "Will you sweep away the righteous with the wicked?

All these and many other verses that show that man was wicked or going against a commandment of God are before the ten commandments were even given.

There were no commandments, so there were no specific breaches of commandments. Therefore, the wickedness involved something other than a breaking of a commandment.

Can these people be wicked or sinning or outside of Gods laws if they were never given the Ten Commandments? Isn’t God Lord over the whole earth? Didn’t He create man with a conscience to know right from wrong? Didn’t He create us with his commandments instilled us, all of mankind?

No, he didn't. If he had, what would be the point of his promise in Ezekiel to remove our hearts of stone and put in hearts of flesh and to put his commands in our hearts? If the commandments were already in our hearts, there'd be no need for a promise to put them there.

These are silly questions and really so is this thread. Of course Gods commandments are over all and that’s how all, throughout time, will be held accountable for their sins.

I suggest another read of Romans. There, it's explained how God will judge. You'll find that he's not going to judge those without the law as though they had it.

 

[Dunemeister]

Yet the New Testament (Galations I believe) says that believers are grafted into the seed of Abraham and not into Judaism. Ergo, the Ten Commandment are not rules of Law for Christianity

Not exactly. The church has been grafted into Israel, where "Israel" is to be understood as "the people of God." So this does not warrant the view that Christians are excused from following the ten commandments. Indeed, it may even strengthen the view that they're binding. For the Ten Commandments were given to the people of God so that they might live out their covenant obligations. If we gentiles have been grafted in to the people of God, doesn't that mean that those covenant obligations are now ours?

Traditionally, the church has answered that question with "yes" and "no." Generally, the church has said that the so-called "moral" laws of the OT still apply to the church, but the so-called "ritualistic" and "dietary" laws don't. This distinction has been hard to maintain with consistency. But by most accounts, the Ten Commandments count as binding on the church. It has only been quite recently in church history where this has been put to serious question.

It is also generally conceded that the Ten Commandments, as a package, don't apply to Gentiles. Rather, the seven laws of Noah (as described earlier in this thread) are binding on all.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Not exactly. The church has been grafted into Israel, where "Israel" is to be understood as "the people of God." So this does not warrant the view that Christians are excused from following the ten commandments. Indeed, it may even strengthen the view that they're binding. For the Ten Commandments were given to the people of God so that they might live out their covenant obligations. If we gentiles have been grafted in to the people of God, doesn't that mean that those covenant obligations are now ours?

Traditionally, the church has answered that question with "yes" and "no." Generally, the church has said that the so-called "moral" laws of the OT still apply to the church, but the so-called "ritualistic" and "dietary" laws don't. This distinction has been hard to maintain with consistency. But by most accounts, the Ten Commandments count as binding on the church. It has only been quite recently in church history where this has been put to serious question.

It is also generally conceded that the Ten Commandments, as a package, don't apply to Gentiles. Rather, the seven laws of Noah (as described earlier in this thread) are binding on all.

Perhaps that is according to your church but Galations is clear as to who we become heirs of:

"[7] Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
[8] And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
[9] So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
[14] That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
[16] Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
[18] For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
[29] And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Galations 3 KJV

 

[AK4]

[/size][/font]
You do realize you are contradicting yourself? You are trying to show that the Mosaic Law is binding on everyone by showing that God punished people who were not under the Law. I think you have a slanted view of the Law. What this proves is that there is more to obeying God than what was codefied under the Mosaic Law.
It's only silly because you don't get it.
What you seem to fail to realize is that not all commandments are for everone. For example is was not allowed under Mosaic Law for a Israelite to eat an animal that dropped dead but it was allowable to sell it to a Gentile. I will state this plainly. The Mosaic Law was given to the Jews. Any Gentile who wished to convert to Judaism was then subject to the Law.

No you just dont understand the Law is spiritual and spirit does not die/perish or go away. You are to keep the Law spiritually. It is engraved in all. God is God of all. Not just some. Why do you think all will be judged? whatelse will they be judge on? Their conscience? Well whats in their conscience? UH Uh.... could it something God put in them or did He not put anything in them and let them fend on their own? Come on its common sense.

 

[Dunemeister]

Perhaps that is according to your church but Galations is clear as to who we become heirs of:

"[7] Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
[8] And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
[9] So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
[14] That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
[16] Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
[18] For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
[29] And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Galations 3 KJV

Actually, this passage says that the Gentiles (at least, those who are Christians) are "Abraham's seed", or "children" of Abraham. That's another way of saying that they are "people of God." So this rather reinforces my point. Besides, the image here is not of grafting. The image of grafting appears in Romans 11, which says that the Gentiles were grafted into Israel:

So I ask, have they [Israel] stumbled so as to fall? By no means! But through their stumbling salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous. Now if their stumbling means riches for the world, and if their defeat means riches for Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean!

Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I glorify my ministry in order to make my own people jealous, and thus save some of them. For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead! If the part of the dough offered as first fruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; and if the root is holy, then the branches also are holy.

But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, a wild olive shoot, were grafted in their place to share the rich root of the olive tree, do not vaunt yourselves over the branches. If you do vaunt yourselves, remember that it is not you that support the root, but the root that supports you. You will say, ‘Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.’ That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand only through faith. So do not become proud, but stand in awe. For if God did not spare the natural branches, perhaps he will not spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity towards those who have fallen, but God’s kindness towards you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. And even those of Israel, if they do not persist in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. For if you have been cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these natural branches be grafted back into their own olive tree.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

No you just dont understand the Law is spiritual and spirit does not die/perish or go away. You are to keep the Law spiritually. It is engraved in all. God is God of all. Not just some. Why do you think all will be judged? whatelse will they be judge on? Their conscience? Well whats in their conscience? UH Uh.... could it something God put in them or did He not put anything in them and let them fend on their own? Come on its common sense.

You are pretty good at mixing your messages. Be it spiritual or not, the fact is that the Mosaic Law was given to the children of Israel and was codified. It was to be followed by the children of Israel and anyone who wished to follow Judaism. Christians are to follow the spiritual law of love which is not codified. As to what we will be judged on is our acceptance or rejection of Christ.

Your common sense is misleading you where a more simple understanding of the English language would serve you better. the Bible is really rather clear in it's meanings if you care to study it's entirelty more closely.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Actually, this passage says that the Gentiles (at least, those who are Christians) are "Abraham's seed", or "children" of Abraham. That's another way of saying that they are "people of God." So this rather reinforces my point. Besides, the image here is not of grafting. The image of grafting appears in Romans 11, which says that the Gentiles were grafted into Israel:

I'll accept that yet romans also goes on to show that both Gentiles and jews will be united into a "new man" and that the Law was abolished (in which are the Ten Commandments) through Christ.

"[12] That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
[13] But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
[14] For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
[15] Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man..." Romans 11 KJV

 

[AK4]

You are pretty good at mixing your messages. Be it spiritual or not, the fact is that the Mosaic Law was given to the children of Israel and was codified. It was to be followed by the children of Israel and anyone who wished to follow Judaism. Christians are to follow the spiritual law of love which is not codified. As to what we will be judged on is our acceptance or rejection of Christ.

Your common sense is misleading you where a more simple understanding of the English language would serve you better. the Bible is really rather clear in it's meanings if you care to study it's entirelty more closely.

Mixed up messages? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight! I tell what would be a mixed up message--Paul telling you at one time the Law is abolished then at another time hes telling you he keeps it. Now the only way he cant be contradicting himself is if hes talking about the spiritual law ---

1Co 2:13 - Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual
Ro 7:14 - For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Now go ahead and try to find scriptures that says the law isnt spiritual. And so once again since the law is spiritual, it is on everyone.

As for my english---wlel gee i hvae olny been lvinig in armecia for my wohle lfie and snice its the olny lgnaague i konw wlel waht can i say, mbaye you slohud sduty it mroe buaecse SPIRITUALLY THE WORD OF GOD FLOWS PERFECTLY. To you apparently it doesnt, it contradicts itself.