Are Atheists just close minded Agnostics?

[Nakosis]

"The concept of agnosticism" was arguably created by T. H. Huxley... or at least he was the one who coined the term. My definition is in line with how he (and Robert Green Ingersoll, and Bertrand Russell, two other prominent agnostic thinkers) used the term. This dilution of the definition in informal usage to something like "I don't know" is relatively recent.

Sorry I don't think that is true. At least not from what I've read from these individuals. If you have a quote to back it up, I'll gladly change my opinion.

It was just strange because I would commonly make such a statement, and I've known others who would. Neither I nor these others were agnostic. Strange to know an agnostic would take such a religious position.

Russell's comments were something like it was impossible to know whether God exists at this time. Not that God is unknowable. It's not quite the same. It's more in line with we don't have enough information at present to make an informed decision on the matter.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Yes, I did, but I was starting a new tact. Nevermind.

I'm sorry if I got off track. :flower2:

 

[Reverend Rick]

Does "believe" imply certainty? or reality?

Lets try again, (you need to tell me when are shifting OK I'm an old man).

Belief does not imply certainty and certainly not reality.

 

[Willamena]

Belief does not imply certainty and certainly not reality.

Right. The claim of the atheist, whether "I don't believe god exists," or "I don't believe in an afterlife," is not a guess about god or about the afterlife; it's a statement about them, about their own picture of the world.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

It's not the same. On the one hand you are trying to prove a negative on the other hand you are trying to prove a positive (with one being more extensive then the other). An afterlife may not tell you either way but I'll bet you my spaghetti monster t-shirt it'll get you thinking.

I have no idea whether an afterlife would prove a god exists, prove a god doesn't exist, or neither. Nobody else does either, so all speculations on the subject are equally as valid, or invalid.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Right. The claim of the atheist, whether "I don't believe god exists," or "I don't believe in an afterlife," is not a guess about god or about the afterlife; it's a statement about them, about their own picture of the world.

I'm just making small points here. An Atheist or a Theist is just making an assumption where an Agnostic can state facts that cannot be disputed.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I'm just making small points here. An Atheist or a Theist is just making an assumption where an Agnostic can state facts that cannot be disputed.

What assumption am I making as an atheist?

 

[riley2112]

I'm just making small points here. An Atheist or a Theist is just making an assumption where an Agnostic can state facts that cannot be disputed.

any fact from any one can be disputed. See I just disputed that one and I am sure you will dispute this one. So you can see that is a false statement.

 

[Quiddity]

I have no idea whether an afterlife would prove a god exists, prove a god doesn't exist, or neither. Nobody else does either, so all speculations on the subject are equally as valid, or invalid.

Unless one is dense about everything they experience and are incapable of taking off their scientific hat, they would react accordingly. People operate more like a court room (arguments and evidence) then a scientific lab. But that's just my measly experience in the real world and whatever I managed to digest in my psych and sociology class.

 

[riley2112]

What assumption am I making as an atheist?

Are you not assuming that Christian are wrong in their belief? Just asking.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Are you not assuming that Christian are wrong in their belief? Just asking.

Even if that were the case, assuming Christians are wrong in their beliefs doesn't make one an atheist.

 

[riley2112]

Even if that were the case, assuming Christians are wrong in their beliefs doesn't make one an atheist.

You sir, are right, I am a Christian and I at time assume that we may be wrong in some of our beliefs. That is if you can find more that two or three of us that really has the same beliefs. Just saying:shout

 

[Tristesse]

When we deal with what can be proven, I concede that my beliefs are illogical. I hold my beliefs because of personal enlightenment and experiences.

If you put me under the microscope, my experiences are emotional not logical.

Conversely, Atheists are just as guilty as I am.

If you despise Theism, that is an emotional motivator as well.

I'm an agnostic, that makes my beliefs logical to you, right? I'm also an atheist, is my position still logical to you?

I never said I despised theism. All I ever said is that the evidence is not sufficient for me to believe the theists claim, which is something you admit.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I'm an agnostic, that makes my beliefs logical to you, right? I'm also an atheist, is my position still logical to you?

I never said I despised theism. All I ever said is that the evidence is not sufficient for me to believe the theists claim, which is something you admit.

You can call yourself what ever you like, but you describe yourself as an agnostic to me.

 

[Tristesse]

I'm just making small points here. An Atheist or a Theist is just making an assumption where an Agnostic can state facts that cannot be disputed.

No, the only thing an agnostic would say, is I don't know. However, if you probe the question a bit further, you find out that, "I don't know" actually means that they don't have a belief in a god. Because you either believe or you don't, thats a valid dichotomy. And if the agnostic says, "I don't know," their admitting to a non-belief position. But in any case, this has been brought up many times that atheism and theism are not mutually exclusive and you can be both. For instance, an agnostic atheist would say, "I don't believe a god exists, but I also don't know whether a god exists." That is a valid position to take.

 

[Nakosis]

Atheist, one who is without God. Someone who doesn't have God in their life. An Agnostic who doesn't have God in their life could be defined as an atheist. I've read that "Jews" considered Christians to be atheist since they didn't accept the true God and believed in Jesus instead.

Someone who lives their life without God. Whether God exists or not, they live their life as if there is no God. Agnostic perhaps lives life as if there maybe a God, they just aren't aware of him/her. Christians, Gnostics live their life as if knowledge of God exists. For some Christians that knowledge is through the Bible. Other Christians feel they have direct communication or evidence of God's existence.

 

[Tristesse]

You can call yourself what ever you like, but you describe yourself as an agnostic to me.

Ok, thats fine. I don't know whether or not a god exists. But I don't believe a god exists either, so whatever you want to label me is fine, but the label atheist also entails my beliefs.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

You can call yourself what ever you like, but you describe yourself as an agnostic to me.

Perhaps, you should open yourself to how other people actually use words. This is a good way to facilitiate meaningful communication. I mean, if you're interested in that kind of thing. No pressure or anything.

 

[Willamena]

I'm just making small points here. An Atheist or a Theist is just making an assumption where an Agnostic can state facts that cannot be disputed.

Wait. You don't have "a belief" without something in which to believe. When you see the theist as making "an assumption" about god's existence, is that to say that the theist doesn't know what it is that they're investing belief in? Because I would have to disagree. Whether it is something imagined or objectively real, a priori (reasoned) or a posteriori (experienced) knowledge, there is something that is being believed by the theist. The atheist has his beliefs, too, which just don't happen to include a something that the theist says they believe.

 

[outhouse]

I'm just making small points here. An Atheist or a Theist is just making an assumption where an Agnostic can state facts that cannot be disputed.

I feel your wrong, and I posted it quite clearly.

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