Are Atheists just close minded Agnostics?

[waitasec]

It's not that difficult. You cannot believe in something unproven but you cannot disbelieve for the same reason.

maybe you can't...
not everyone is capable of reasoning the same way you do...

think about that for a second and then maybe that will help you understand why there are differences of opinion.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The face-palm is because he built and continues to build my argument for me, one that I'm not interested in making.

Not really. While I often have a hard time communicating with you, it's rare for this to happen between other people and me.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

I guess a person can call themselves anything they like.

Absolutely. It's how such terms come to have their meaning. We look at the group who self-identifies as 'atheist' or 'agnostic' and we see what atheists and agnostics are.

One can get in trouble by calling oneself an 'M.D.' and other labels which require licensing, but otherwise anyone can be anything. I'm a theologian and also an atheist, for example.

 

[cablescavenger]

There is a big difference between a person who does not believe in God because they see no proof or reason to believe and a person who says flat out that there is no God.

The latter is making a statement that they cannot prove.

You are right though I cannot deny that, it is almost religious you might say.

As a positive atheist myself I have faith in probability and science.

 

[riley2112]

It takes alot more imagination to believe in the invisible that you never touched, seen or heard

However it takes less imagination if it has touched you.

It takes some imagination just to say your not sure about the invisible

.“Faith means belief in something concerning which doubt is theoretically possible”

(William James)

It doesnt take imagination at all to say people created this imagination through fear and wants and needs

.

With this I agree. fear, wants and needs; Being a Christian doesn't mean I have everything I want in my life. It means that I trust God that He will provide me in everything I need in my life.“There is no fear in love; perfect love casts away fear

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

Now that you mention it, I think most debates here seem to come down to disagreements on definitions.

Curiously, no one has yet presented a formal definition of 'atheist' or 'agnostic'... not that I've seen. In my opinion that definition would have to look something like this:

"An atheist is a person who would assent to the following claim(s) or statement(s)."

But in my opinion, that defintion is hopeless. I think that atheists and agnostics are people who sincerely label themselves atheists and/or agnostics... just like Christians, Muslims, ect.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

Seeing as how that defies logic, I don't see any reason to discuss it in depth.

No. It only defies your own personal logic. It doesn't defy mine.

The most common error which people make, in my opinion, is confusing language with mathematics. In math, 1 cannot logically equal not-1, but in language an atheist can definitely be a theist.

I'll be happy to discuss it if you like.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

You can be an atheist about particular (or even the majority of) concepts for 'god's but not an atheist - you can still believe in some concept for 'god's and therefore actually be a theist about that concept.

A good way to put it, I think. People seem to assume that 'God' has a particular, set meaning... but that just ain't so. It is the vaguest word in our language, I sometimes think.

 

[outhouse]

However it takes less imagination if it has touched you.

what has touched you??

percieved is all you have correct?

.“Faith means belief in something concerning which doubt is theoretically possible”

exactly my point, faith. It takes more imagination to believe faith then not.

It means that I trust God that He will provide me in everything I need in my life.“There is no fear in love; perfect love casts away fear

good point. One can have faith and still recieve all the benifits of religion, whether its real or not.

 

[rageoftyrael]

And now i've decided to just answer the question posed as the title. There are pretty much two ways to look at an agnostic. Either an agnostic is someone who believes god is unknowable, or they simply don't know. That's the simplest explanation of what an agnostic is. So... my response is this, if an atheist is a close-minded agnostic, so are theists. I assume you are saying an atheist is a close-minded agnostic, due to the fact that they say they do know, to some extent. How is that any different from a theist? Nevermind that only a strong atheist would even come close to classifying as some kind of close-minded agnostic....

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

And now i've decided to just answer the question posed as the title. There are pretty much two ways to look at an agnostic. Either an agnostic is someone who believes god is unknowable, or they simply don't know. That's the simplest explanation of what an agnostic is.

Personally I object to the terms 'theist, atheist, agnostic' on the grounds that they cheapen God. They all assume that 'God' is a known Entity whose existence can be embraced, rejected or not known. (That Guy in the Bible is the usual assumption in the western world.)

But I think the central question should be Who or What is God? Not whether the God of our cultural assumption really exists.

A thing doesn't have to exist in order to chase it. We can argue all day over the nature of Justice, just as we can argue over the nature of God. But arguing over whether I'm a justiest or an ajustiest? It doesn't really make good sense to me or seem like fun.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Personally I object to the terms 'theist, atheist, agnostic' on the grounds that they cheapen God.

So? Why necessarily assume that God is something to value?

They all assume that 'God' is a known Entity whose existence can be embraced, rejected or not known. (That Guy in the Bible is the usual assumption in the western world.)

I think that's necessary if we assume that "God" is a meaningful term. And if it's not a meaningful term, then when we say "God", we're not really saying anything.

 

[Willamena]

So? Why necessarily assume that God is something to value?

Because (hopefully) you are.

 

[crystalonyx]

How about it, what is the difference between the two?

The opposite could also be asked,

"Are theists just hopeful agnostics"?

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

So? Why necessarily assume that God is something to value?

Hey, Penguin. It's why I used the word 'personally.' I don't assume that God is something to value. I just know that God is something which I can't help but value. Who knows why. I was raised as a fundie and have long been as severe an atheist as you're likely to encounter. But the concept of God seems to have possessed me and won't go away. I'm curious about the meaning of life, and 'God' is a word I use in my musings and worldview construction. Of course, by now my God is unrecognizable to anyone but me, and I'm mostly confused about it, too.

I think that's necessary if we assume that "God" is a meaningful term. And if it's not a meaningful term, then when we say "God", we're not really saying anything.

I think that word-meaning is mostly an illusion, across the board. We try for commonality in meaning, but we talk past either other all the time, assuming that the other guy means the same thing with a word as we do. So I spend a lot of my time questioning the other guy about his word meanings.

As for 'God', for me the whole game is working to define it. It's why I sometimes call myself a theologian.

 

[riley2112]

So? Why necessarily assume that God is something to value?
I think that's necessary if we assume that "God" is a meaningful term. And if it's not a meaningful term, then when we say "God", we're not really saying anything.

surely you joke. It never seems to amaze me when someone starts talking about God not being important or of no value or does not exist. There are around 7 billion people on the planet and over 6 billion of them believe in God in one form or another. How many are talking about you? And I am not saying that you have no value. But you can get on any , and I do mean any forum. Even the ones that say they do not believe in God and those of us who do are foolish, guess what they are talking about , dare I say it ? God. Sooner or later you people are going to understand that we are all the same. You can say there is a God , or you can say there is not a God. but when you get right down to it . WE DON'T KNOW ONE WAY OR THE OTHER FOR SURE. But it is interesting to talk about.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

Even the ones that say they do not believe in God and those of us who do are foolish, guess what they are talking about , dare I say it ? God.

Hey, riley. Could you define God for me? Seriously. I'd really like to hear your concept of God.

If you don't want to present a real definition, can you just tell me one true thing about God?

 

[riley2112]

Hey, riley. Could you define God for me? Seriously. I'd really like to hear your concept of God.

If you don't want to present a real definition, can you just tell me one true thing about God?

yea I think I can.Give me a min or two to get my words correct.k?

 

[Photonic]

Because (hopefully) you are.

A doesn't follow B, please be more clear with this. Do you mean God is worthwhile BECAUSE we are? Or we are worthwhile because He is?

 

[Photonic]

If you don't want to present a real definition, can you just tell me one true thing about God?

Can you?