Are Atheists just close minded Agnostics?

[Reverend Rick]

Did you actually read the link you posted?

Why yes I did,

an agnostic is someone who neither believes nor disbelieves there is a God

 

[Tristesse]

To my understanding:

Agnostic atheist - Do not deny the possibility of a god.

I don't think atheist entertain the possibility, do they?

Most of them do. I think the idea of a deity is highly improbable, however, I'll change my mind the second sufficient evidence is presented. And I think you'll find that most atheist are the same way. Anything could be a possibility, but it's not about what's possible, it's about whats probable. And thats where the distinction lies.

 

[Quiddity]

Most of them do. I think the idea of a deity is highly improbable, however, I'll change my mind the second sufficient evidence is presented. And I think you'll find that most atheist are the same way. Anything could be a possibility, but it's not about what's possible, it's about whats probable. And thats where the distinction lies.

Who wouldn't change their mind?

I don't understand why a distinction is even necessary?

 

[Tristesse]

Who wouldn't change their mind?

I don't understand why a distinction is even necessary?

A distinction is necessary because your question to me was, an atheist wouldn't think that a god is possible, right? And I answered that it's not a matter of whats possible but whats probable.

 

[Tristesse]

Why yes I did,

Well, in the very first paragraph it says that there are agnostic atheists and agnostic theists, so you're wrong. It is infact possible to be both, because they address different questions. One of them addresses knowledge while the other addresses belief. Again, they are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Who wouldn't change their mind?

I don't understand why a distinction is even necessary?

I don't see how these hybid beliefs play any part of this discussion other than to confuse.

A Theist believes in God.
An Atheist does not believe in God.
An Agnostic does not believe or disbelieve in God.

Actually if you think about it, an Agnostic has the most sound reasoning and is the most open minded of the three.

An Agnostic accepts that there is no proof either way, which honestly is the truth of the matter if you use reasoning and not probability in your thinking.

 

[Agnostic75]

How about it, what is the difference between the two?

Some atheists are atheistic regarding the existence of any God. Other atheists are atheistic regarding the existence of the Gods in all religious books, but not regarding the existence of any God. Some members of the latter group call themselves "atheist," and others call themselves "atheist/agnostic."

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I don't see how these hybid beliefs play any part of this discussion other than to confuse.

A Theist believes in God.
An Atheist does not believe in God.
An Agnostic does not believe or disbelieve in God.

Actually if you think about it, an Agnostic has the most sound reasoning and is the most open minded of the three.

An Agnostic accepts that there is no proof either way, which honestly is the truth of the matter if you use reasoning and not probability in your thinking.

Exactly - and no proof either way should logically result in an absence of belief in the existence of god, i.e., atheism ("weak" atheism for those who make that distinction).

 

[Reverend Rick]

Well, in the very first paragraph it says that there are agnostic atheists and agnostic theists

Yes it does, but this thread is not about these hybid beliefs.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Yes it does, but this thread is not about these hybid beliefs.

Hybrid isn't the same as two things that aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[Tristesse]

I don't see how these hybid beliefs play any part of this discussion other than to confuse.

A Theist believes in God.
An Atheist does not believe in God.
An Agnostic does not believe or disbelieve in God.

Actually if you think about it, an Agnostic has the most sound reasoning and is the most open minded of the three.

An Agnostic accepts that there is no proof either way, which honestly is the truth of the matter if you use reasoning and not probability in your thinking.

No, you've got your definitions a bit wrong. Yes, a theist BELIEVES in a god and an atheist DOES NOT BELIEVE in a god, however, agnosticism and gnosticism has nothing to do with belief, it has to do with KNOWLEDGE. An agnostic either claims that a god is unknowable or that they do not know whether a god exists. There's no belief involved with agnosticism.

And I'd go a bit further and say that most agnostics are in fact atheists. Because when you ask if they believe that a god exists, the answer invariably will be, no, I'm agnostic. They do not believe that a god exists, and thats all that it takes to be an atheist.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Exactly - and no proof either way should logically result in an absence of belief in the existence of god, i.e., atheism ("weak" atheism for those who make that distinction).

I follow your reasoning, but not all people think exactly like you do, therefore the need for the two different beliefs.

If everyone followed your logic, there would be no need for Agnosticism

 

[Agnostic75]

I don't see how these hybid beliefs play any part of this discussion other than to confuse.

A Theist believes in God.
An Atheist does not believe in God.
An Agnostic does not believe or disbelieve in God.

Actually if you think about it, an Agnostic has the most sound reasoning and is the most open minded of the three.

Why thank you. I am blushing.

Consider the following:

Famous Agnostics

Famous Agnostics: Then and Now
There’s a rapid increase in the number of agnostics today who believe that there is no absolute answer for unsolvable issues like the existence or non-existence of God. Among these skeptics are famous agnostics like the person who coined the word agnostic, Thomas Henry Huxley. He described his agnostic point of view about the mortality of man and the existence of a spiritual entity as unsolvable and has no absolute answers. He neither affirmed nor denied that the spiritual existence can be presented with solid evidence. And with his coined term “agnostic”, the belief began to be popular and densely examined by religious scholars and philosophers. Among the famous agnostics is Robert G. Ingersoll, an Illinois lawyer and politician and referred to as the Great Agnostic. He blatantly questioned if there is a supernatural power and if man is immortal. He was quoted saying that he did not deny it; he just doesn’t know and he does not believe.
Another famous agnostic is Bertrand Russell, a philosopher who declared his belief that there are no profound answers about omnipresence and other deities. He challenged the readers of his book to stand on their own feet and look earnestly at the world without fear of expressing one’s thoughts to question things regarding their spiritual faith.
Listed below are some of the famous agnostics categorized in their respective fields.
Science and Technology

• Albert Einstein
• Charles Darwin
• Marie Curie
• Carl Sagan
• Sir David Attenborough
• Francis Crick
• Stephen Jay Gould
• Milton Friedman
• Emile Durkheim
• Ludwig von Mises
• Paul Nurse
• Sherwin B. Nuland
• George Olah
• Peter Schuster
• Steve Wozniak

Writers and Authors

• Jorge Luis Borges
• Henry Cadbury
• Mark Twain
• Frederick James Furvinall
• Charles Templeton
• Matt Greoning
• Dan Savage
• H.L. Mencken
• Margaret Atwood
• Martin Amis
• Tony Kushner
• Piers Anthony
• Ibn Warraq
• A.J Jacobs
• Umberto Eco

Philosophy

• Protagoras
• Fred Edwords
• Karl R. Popper
• Michael Schmidt- Salomon
• Anthony Kenny
• James Hall

Business

• Warren Buffett
• Bill Gates
• Ted Turner

Politics and Law

• Michelle Bachelet
• Winston Churchill
• Clement Attlee
• Helen Clark
• John Key
• Wim Kok
• Clarence Darrow
• Willem Drees
• Heinz Fischer
• Carlos Gaviria Diaz
• Bob Hawke
• Esther Ouwehand
• Bruno Kreisky
• Ricardo Lagos
• Mariette Hamer
• Boris van der Ham
• Jan Marijnissen
• George Lincoln Rokwell
• Gough Whitlam
• Joop den Uyl
• Jose Luis Rodrigue Zapatero
• Gerrit Zalm
• Jawaharlal Nehru

Media Arts and Entertainment

• Tom Bergeron
• Larry King
• Dave Matthews
• Carrie Fisher
• Richard Dreyfuss
• Bob Hoskins
• Roman Polanski
• Sean Penn
• Brad Pitt
• Antonio Banderas
• Keanu Reeves
• Monica Belluci
• Susie Bright
• James Taylor
• Uma Thurman
• Rob Steiger
• Zac Efron
• Matt Stone

These are only a few of thefamous agnostics that are well known.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I follow your reasoning, but not all people think exactly like you do, therefore the need for the two different beliefs.

If everyone followed your logic, there would be no need for Agnosticism

If everyone followed my logic there'd be no need for atheism, theism, or agnosticism, but the world can't be perfect.

 

[outhouse]

How about it, what is the difference between the two?

No not at all.

Atheist are open minded and closed minded as are agnostics



Atheist just know for sure that no god exist.


agnostics just are not sure.





a closed mind has nothing to do with the choice

 

[Skwim]

To me, an agnostic by definition has an open mind.

What is inherently open minded about having firmly concluded that "god" is unknown or unknowable?

I don't know how you come up with these statements as characterizing agnosticism, but to firmly concluded that "god is unknown or unknowable" would presuppose there is such an entity, and agnostics don't do this. In main they simply say "I don't know if there's a god or not."

 

[theirreverentconcubine]

To be without knowledge is to assume knowledge exists that is lacking in the individual. Consider quantum mechanics. From my mathematical background and independent research, I know a fair little bit; but I'm agnostic as to the full scope of QM.

Being agnostic about god is just irresponsible. There is no god. God is a human term that comes from human mouths which humans try to fit in their human minds. No. There is Set, and then there are lesser considerations.

 

[Reverend Rick]

If everyone followed my logic there'd be no need for atheism, theism, or agnosticism, but the world can't be perfect.

Please allow me to use your logic on something different however.

We are outside away from any communication devices. No radio, TV, weather channel app on our phone.

The sky is clear and the wind is calm.

I say, I believe it is going to rain tonight we should start bringing in the lawn furniture so it will not be all wet.

You say to me, "Do you have any reason or proof it will rain?"

I say, No proof, I just feel it in my bones it will rain.

The situation now is there is no proof or disproof it will rain so you decide to leave the furniture out based on your logic by default.

The Agnostic says, your both ignorant, sit down and have another beer and quit worrying about a bunch of stuff we have no control over.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Please allow me to use your logic on something different however.

We are outside away from any communication devices. No radio, TV, weather channel app on our phone.

The sky is clear and the wind is calm.

I say, I believe it is going to rain tonight we should start bringing in the lawn furniture so it will not be all wet.

You say to me, "Do you have any reason or proof it will rain?"

I say, No proof, I just feel it in my bones it will rain.

The situation now is there is no proof or disproof it will rain so you decide to leave the furniture out based on your logic by default.

The Agnostic says, your both ignorant, sit down and have another beer and quit worrying about a bunch of stuff we have no control over.

Right, sitting down and having another beer also involves leaving the furniture out.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Right, sitting down and having another beer also involves leaving the furniture out.

Why yes it does which only proves the point that while there are similarities to Atheists and Agnostics they still are different. Instead of worrying about what I thought, they where busy getting us another beer. :slap: