• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Are Baha’u’llah’s prophecies coming true?

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Your constant platitudes rarely address the questions asked or points raised.
The evidence completely refutes your claim that all religions are good and true representations of god's message, revealed by messengers of the same god, communicating the same message.
Nobody ever claimed that all the religions had the same message. They did not have the same message, they all had different messages. If they had the same message then there would have been no reason for God to send another Messenger with a new message.

However, the spiritual truths contained in all the religions are eternal so they have remained the same.

As revealed by God, all religions were good and true representations of God's message but religions declined over time.

“All that lives, and this includes the religions, have springtime, a time of maturity, of harvest and wintertime. Then religion becomes barren, a lifeless adherence to the letter uninformed by the spirit, and man’s spiritual life declines. When we look at religious history, we see that God has spoken to men precisely at times when they have reached the nadir of their degradation and cultural decadence. Moses came to Israel when it was languishing under the Pharaoh’s yoke, Christ appeared at a time when the Jewish Faith had lost its power and culture of antiquity was in its death those. Muhammad came to a people who lived in barbaric ignorance at the lowest level of culture and into a world in which the former religions had strayed far away from their origins and nearly lost their identity. The Bab addressed Himself to a people who had irretrievably lost their former grandeur and who found themselves in a state of hopeless decadence. Baha’u’llah came to a humanity which was approaching the most critical phase of its history.

‘Abdu’l-Baha writes: ‘God leaves not His children comfortless, but, when the darkness of winter overshadows them, then again He sends His Messengers, the Prophets, with a renewal of the blessed spring. The Sun of Truth appears again on the horizon of the world shining into the eyes of those who sleep, awaking them to behold the glory of a new dawn. Then again will the tree of humanity blossom and bring forth the fruit of righteousness for the healing of the nations.’ Paris Talks, p. 32.’

Some conclusions can be drawn from this fundamental belief. First, all religions are divine in essence and consequently there are no religions which contradict or exclude each other, but only one indivisible divine religion which is renewed periodically and according to the requirements of the age, in cycles of about a thousand years: ‘Our command was but one word.’ Qur’an 54:51. It is therefore hardly surprising if many of Baha’u’llah’s teachings are to be found in former religions either expressly or in an embryonic form. As ‘Abdu’l-Baha says, the Baha’i Faith is ‘not a new path to immortality.’ quoted from: Principles of the Baha’i Faith. On account of this transcendent oneness of all religions, Baha’u’llah exhorted His people to associate with followers of all religions in a spirit of loving-kindness and to make of religion a cause of harmony and peace, not of discord and strife, of hate and division.

The second conclusion is that we cannot perceive what the essence of religion is and what it has the power to achieve if we examine the traditional great religions in their present form. They have achieved much but have reached the end of their road; they were the foundation of great cultures and for thousands of years they were the guiding-star of millions of people in their everyday life and activities. But during the course of history they have also accumulated large amounts of historical ballast. They have moved a long way from their origin and are burdened with their followers’ misdeeds and cravings for power. They are no pleasant sight today, least of all to young people, who no longer see in these religions the ‘salt of the earth’ as Jesus called his disciples, Matthew 5:13 but rather the ‘opium of the people’ (Karl Marx). And one is easily inclined to pass judgment on religion as a whole, and to see in it an anachronism of past times, long since overcome, like the belief in demons in former times. But a withered plant does not give us the faintest idea of its blossoming time. In reality, religions are the ‘light of the world’ and, according to Baha’u’llah’s teachings, the foundation of human culture. It is important to understand that they are as necessary for mankind as sunlight for the plant. Without divine revelation, there would be neither progress nor culture: ‘Were this revelation to be withdrawn, all would perish.’ Taken from (Baha’u’llah, Gleanings, XCIII).

(Udo Schaefer, The Light Shineth in Darkness, pp. 24-26)
Bahaism necessarily implies that other religions are wrong.
So, how do you reconcile these inconsistencies?
No, the Baha'i Faith does not imply that the other religions are wrong. We believe that their messages and social teachings and laws are outdated so they do not apply to this age, and we believe that what had been revealed by God was corrupted by man over time. This concept is not really that difficult to understand.

“This is the Day when the loved ones of God should keep their eyes directed towards His Manifestation, and fasten them upon whatsoever that Manifestation may be pleased to reveal. Certain traditions of bygone ages rest on no foundations whatever, while the notions entertained by past generations, and which they have recorded in their books, have, for the most part, been influenced by the desires of a corrupt inclination.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 171
 

Tiberius

Well-Known Member
It is not an assumption, it is a belief. You can disagree with God's decisions all you want but it won't get you anywhere since you cannot control an omnipotent God.

By believing you know more than God you are just spinning your wheels and wasting time while Rome burns.

Call it whatever you want, it's still circular, and still a logical fallacy.
 

Tiberius

Well-Known Member
I knew that. My point was that is all the article is about and the findings of one article that is only in reference to the power to heal patients who had undergone bypass surgery. These specific findings do not mean God has no power to heal anything else.

God: "Dang, they picked bypass surgery, the one thing I'm unable to help heal. If only they'd chosen something else! ANYTHING else! I could have really shown them something!"
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
It is highly disingenuous to claim that Bahaism considers every religious belief to be true and accurate. You actually claim that the others have flaws and only Bahaism offers the actual solution. It is no different to the others in that respect.
That's why I don't believe the Baha'i Faith is true. They claim it both ways. The religions are true, as given by the one God and his messengers. But they are also false, because people have added things in and misinterpreted the "original" message. So, they can confirm as true whatever they want and deny whatever they want. Then the always handy "symbolic" card. With that they easily dismiss whatever they need to. Like the resurrection story? That's symbolic. They Jesus rose "spiritually" not physically.

Then the claim that the Quran is more accurate. But the Quran has a completely different version of the birth of Jesus in it. Something about Mary giving birth to him under a date palm. Then the Quran has a story of the young boy Jesus making clay birds and making them come to life. And I'm sure, if they need to, they'd just say that was symbolic. Truth is whatever Baha'is make it.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Oh dear. This is a prerequisite condition. Not only this.
The point is, each person needs to investigate the matter independently, and without getting influenced by what others say. Because very often, people think, just because a great number of people say something, then it is a True information.
Not one person knows all there is to know of a subject. And who hasn't heard about any religion from other people? We're evaluating the Baha'i Faith because of you and other Baha'is. But does anyone really come in without any preconceived ideas about God and religion? With people in a religion, they have accepted it as truth. If they are going to then change religions, there will be things they no longer believe are true in their former religion. But a lot of the problematic things that Baha'is claim, like God and messengers, are as big a problem as with Atheists. How and what do you expect an Atheist to find in their investigation that would cause them to believe that God is real and some man is God's messenger? It sounds true? He sounds like he's honest and telling the truth?
 

InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
Not one person knows all there is to know of a subject. And who hasn't heard about any religion from other people? We're evaluating the Baha'i Faith because of you and other Baha'is. But does anyone really come in without any preconceived ideas about God and religion? With people in a religion, they have accepted it as truth. If they are going to then change religions, there will be things they no longer believe are true in their former religion. But a lot of the problematic things that Baha'is claim, like God and messengers, are as big a problem as with Atheists. How and what do you expect an Atheist to find in their investigation that would cause them to believe that God is real and some man is God's messenger? It sounds true? He sounds like he's honest and telling the truth?
Bahaullah answers:

"But, O my brother, when a true seeker determineth to take the step of search in the path leading to the knowledge of the Ancient of Days, he must, before all else, cleanse and purify his heart, which is the
seat of the revelation of the inner mysteries of God, from the obscuring dust of all acquired knowledge, and the allusions of the embodiments of satanic fancy. He must purge his breast, which is the sanctuary of the abiding love of the Beloved, of every defilement, and sanctify his soul from all that pertaineth to water and clay, from all shadowy and ephemeral attachments. He must so cleanse his heart that no remnant of either love or hate may linger therein, lest that love blindly incline him to error, or that hate repel him away from the truth. Even as thou dost witness in this day how most of the people, because of such love and hate, are bereft of the immortal Face, have strayed far from the Embodiments of the divine mysteries, and, shepherdless, are roaming through the wilderness of oblivion and error. "

- Book of Iqan
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Obviously, you have not learned about Bahai Faith.
Bahai faith does not say other Religions are false. It says, each religion was revealed for a period of time. Each religion have a prescribed period, during which, its Laws are useful. Once that period is passed, God again sends a new Law, suitable for a new period of time. So, Bahai Faith is not also a final religion. In future other Manifestations appear and bring a better Religon for future times.
I don't believe that is true. Tons of stuff was "revealed" to people in India. Laws, practices, all kinds of religious and spiritual stuff. When Adam, Noah, Abraham, or Moses came what effect did it have on the religions of India? What new laws did any of them bring that was meant for anyone other than the Israelites? The people in the Americas had their own Gods and religions and laws. When the Europeans found them, they forced their religion and laws on them. And whether it was Catholic or Protestant, both believed in Satan and that Jesus was part of God. Both things Baha'is say aren't true. The Baha'i "progression" is too simplistic, and I don't think fits what has happened in religious history.
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
First for proof to be found of God, there first needs to be the Messengers, as without the Messengers, we have no knowledge of God, we have a capacity, that has not been made manifested in this world.

The proof is then their lives, those people that meet the Messengers see that they are "Annointed" with a knowledge that is more than other Men.

Then we have the Message, the knowledge of God is given, that Message is seen to be the ultimate knowledge, more than man can produce, thus proof that is from God.

Regards Tony
The theme before man's sin there wasn't any sin.

God owned heavens blue sky. Cooled by clouds kept blue. If it becomes coat of many colours separated gases... heavens mantle we all die sacrificed the warning.

Origin scientists had caused earths heavens to shrink by reactive dense cloud cooling causes.

Linked historic to sun earth attack.

Moon proved the attack had stopped frozen. Man reinvented fall out himself by machines. All life ended on earth with star fall.

Giant life lived on earth one climate. Dinosaurs were life destroyed twice by incoming stars. Immaculate condition a lesser body presence.

It might have been daylight all day why trees would be huge.

So stars did not begin life on earth. Themed life is attacked. The moon once assisted earth.

Cooling by increased star gained burning gas forced a colder reaction. Ice saved earth.

Which means earths atmosphere began to thin out losing density.

It was held by instant snap freeze only.

What messenger did man gain?

Loss of his own life water ground mass that allowed him a beautiful mind speech behaviour inheritance.

Gone eradicated as language changed. Proven. It owns no argument as language expression did change. We don't speak like they did.

His owned water mass cooled got returned back to his natural man's life as a biological chemical changed cause. By stars gain.

He physically felt all the chemical changes. He survived as his water life support came back. It was his owned living biological warning advice. Of man the scientist theist inventor man.

That as soon as star fall is earth gained man tries to copy star fall. Information becomes interfered with possessed as feedback. Reason it gets Inherited at ground so image once frozen wanders.

Man thinks self a beast a woman or other terms consciously brain changed thoughts belief change. Proven also.

Man gets wrong images constantly passing communicating back to him.

He taught my life female what he knew by causes historic science. As he began copying again after Russia star fall nuclear energy. From dusts once again.

Taught from above. So he copied changes down below.

As the teaching was about human consciousness.

If a man says I must balance my beliefs between life and science it is to prove that science is artificial choice and was never balanced.

The part of the story you don't use as man invented wants science.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Your constant platitudes rarely address the questions asked or points raised.
The evidence completely refutes your claim that all religions are good and true representations of god's message, revealed by messengers of the same god, communicating the same message.
Bahaism necessarily implies that other religions are wrong.
So, how do you reconcile these inconsistencies?
Yeah, that was in response to me saying all this...

Considering Baha'is don't believe in the Christian trinity, does that mean that they were gullible enough to accept that as true, but that beliefs won't thrive but die out? I don't think so. People can be very religiously gullible. And once they've fallen for some scam cult religion, they might very well thrive. Like those Christians that have fallen for the claim that Jesus rose from the dead, that he is coming back and that he is God. That is false, right? So the people are being deceived, right? So I'd say false believe grow very easily and can appear to be real.
I still believe lots of people are religiously gullible. And if the Baha'i Faith by chance is true, then all of the others ones have something wrong in what they are believing. So, only the few, the sure, the Baha'is have everything correct and true.
 

InvestigateTruth

Veteran Member
I don't believe that is true. Tons of stuff was "revealed" to people in India. Laws, practices, all kinds of religious and spiritual stuff. When Adam, Noah, Abraham, or Moses came what effect did it have on the religions of India? What new laws did any of them bring that was meant for anyone other than the Israelites? The people in the Americas had their own Gods and religions and laws. When the Europeans found them, they forced their religion and laws on them. And whether it was Catholic or Protestant, both believed in Satan and that Jesus was part of God. Both things Baha'is say aren't true. The Baha'i "progression" is too simplistic, and I don't think fits what has happened in religious history.
In older times, the world was not as connected as today. I think this is why, for one side of the world, God had been sending Abrahamic Messengers, and in another places, western religions, and even for aboriginals and other farther people, He had sent other Manifestations.
But, all of these Manifestations being from Abrahamic Faiths and other Manifestations had promised of a future Age, when a universal Manifestation appears. Abramic Faiths named it Day of Judgement, a new World to come, when the Lord comes. Other Non Abrahamic Religions also spoke of a Promised One who comes at the end of a Cycle, or end of an Age.
Bahaullah is that promised One. Now, because we live in a more advance world, it is possible to have One universal Manifestation for the whole world.
Thus Bahaullah said, the world is one country and mankind its citizens.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
The first thing is, that secular liberalisim does not have the capacity to find unity.

The peace and security of mankind, its ultimate unity is not possible, unless and until the governments base their decisions on the councils given by God.

This will still take some considerable time for humanity to embrace, so until then the link provided was the answer to your question.

Meanwhile this needs to be implemented, thus any actions taken to promote this advice, are practical steps.

"..The Great Being, wishing to reveal the prerequisites of the peace and tranquillity of the world and the advancement of its peoples, hath written: The time must come when the imperative necessity for the holding of a vast, an all-embracing assemblage of men will be universally realized. The rulers and kings of the earth must needs attend it, and, participating in its deliberations, must consider such ways and means as will lay the foundations of the world’s Great Peace amongst men. Such a peace demandeth that the Great Powers should resolve, for the sake of the tranquillity of the peoples of the earth, to be fully reconciled among themselves. Should any king take up arms against another, all should unitedly arise and prevent him. If this be done, the nations of the world will no longer require any armaments, except for the purpose of preserving the security of their realms and of maintaining internal order within their territories. This will ensure the peace and composure of every people, government and nation. We fain would hope that the kings and rulers of the earth, the mirrors of the gracious and almighty name of God, may attain unto this station, and shield mankind from the onslaught of tyranny. …The day is approaching when all the peoples of the world will have adopted one universal language and one common script. When this is achieved, to whatsoever city a man may journey, it shall be as if he were entering his own home. These things are obligatory and absolutely essential. It is incumbent upon every man of insight and understanding to strive to translate that which hath been written into reality and action…. That one indeed is a man who, today, dedicateth himself to the service of the entire human race. The Great Being saith: Blessed and happy is he that ariseth to promote the best interests of the peoples and kindreds of the earth. In another passage He hath proclaimed: It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens." Baha'u'llah

Regards Tony
And no one is going to try and hide some weapons? Leaders in the United States can't agree. And why did God release the knowledge of nuclear energy to humans? Knowing they'd make bombs with it? I know. It's not his fault.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
One of the problems here is that different Baha'i on here have different positions on what their faith says and means, sometimes changing depending on what points they are addressing.

Now, you appear to be saying that Bahaullah's writings are merely transitory and the next messenger could say something quite different, and that Baha'ism could be quite meaningless in the ultimate salvation of humanity - which raises the question, what is even the point in it?
Yes, things like being "saved" by grace through faith in Jesus are totally made irrelevant, and, in some ways, might never have been true according to Baha'i beliefs. At least not literally. They will always find some symbolic meaning to it.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
That's why I don't believe the Baha'i Faith is true. They claim it both ways.

Then the claim that the Quran is more accurate.
One reason you do not believe that the Baha'i Faith is true because you listen to what Baha'is say instead of investigating for yourself. It does not MATTER what Baha'is claim about the Baha'i Faith or other religions, it only matters if Baha'u'llah was a Messenger of God or not. Nothing else matters.

What Baha’u’llah wrote in The Kitáb-i-Íqán on the very first pages is critical. The following is part of the last sentence of a longer paragraph, the vitally important part.

“…… inasmuch as man can never hope to attain unto the knowledge of the All-Glorious, can never quaff from the stream of divine knowledge and wisdom, can never enter the abode of immortality, nor partake of the cup of divine nearness and favour, unless and until he ceases to regard the words and deeds of mortal men as a standard for the true understanding and recognition of God and His Prophets.” The Kitáb-i-Íqán, pp. 3-4

What it essentially says is that we will never discover the truth for ourselves if we use the words and deeds of other people as a standard by which to understand God and His Prophets. In other words, we cannot determine whether Baha’u’llah was a Messenger of God according to what other people say or do.

What then do we do? We investigate the truth for ourselves.

How to Independently Investigate the Truth
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
It helps when God agrees with everything you believe.
No, no, you can't say it like that. People will get the wrong idea. It is... we believe and agree with everything that God has said. Except for what he said in all the other religions. Those things are kind of "iffy".
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Bahaullah answers:

"But, O my brother, when a true seeker determineth to take the step of search in the path leading to the knowledge of the Ancient of Days, he must, before all else, cleanse and purify his heart, which is the
seat of the revelation of the inner mysteries of God, from the obscuring dust of all acquired knowledge, and the allusions of the embodiments of satanic fancy. He must purge his breast, which is the sanctuary of the abiding love of the Beloved, of every defilement, and sanctify his soul from all that pertaineth to water and clay, from all shadowy and ephemeral attachments. He must so cleanse his heart that no remnant of either love or hate may linger therein, lest that love blindly incline him to error, or that hate repel him away from the truth. Even as thou dost witness in this day how most of the people, because of such love and hate, are bereft of the immortal Face, have strayed far from the Embodiments of the divine mysteries, and, shepherdless, are roaming through the wilderness of oblivion and error. "

- Book of Iqan
And who does that? Most of us compare religions with things that we know, or at least believe, are true with the new claims of the new religion.
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
Isn't that what the Atheists here have been asking the Baha'is? All I've heard is, "His mission. His life. His character. His writings. And all the fulfilled prophecies." Do you consider that to be "sound" factual evidence?

Please feel free to list proofs that you see are proofs of the Spirit other than the following.

A Messenger.
The Person of the Messenger, their life and abilities.
The Message as suited to the Age.

Regards Tony
 

ppp

Well-Known Member
A new way of doing this is offered, which does not reflect past practices.
Well, that's vague. You may as well said, "There's stuff."

In the last 20 years, what have the Baha'i done for non-Baha'i society that non-Baha'i society would consider to be good and practical and useful?
 
Top