Are Baha’u’llah’s prophecies coming true?

[Spirit of Light]

@KWED does it bother you so much that bahai's believe what they do that you cant just accept they believe different than you?

At what moment will you start backing off?
If you want people to respect your own values in life, maybe time you accept people are different?

Just curious..

 

[ppp]

@KWED does it bother you so much that bahai's believe what they do that you cant just accept they believe different than you?

At what moment will you start backing off?
If you want people to respect your own values in life, maybe time you accept people are different?

Just curious..

Do you think that he should respect a given belief just because someone has that belief? Also curious.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Do you think that he should respect a given belief just because someone has that belief? Also curious.

Yes of course, as i respect his and your views of different religions you disagree with.

It comes a moment in the discussion its better to stop before someone get offended.

 

[ppp]

Yes of course, as i respect his and your views of different religions you disagree with.

I don't agree with that. While I may respect a person's right to have a view that disagrees with my own, I am in no way required to respect the view itself. In fact, I am obligated in some cases to not respect the view. Most notably for people who think that white people are better than non-whites. Those who think that women have an obligation to "submit gracefully" to their husbands. And people who think that certain legal rights, privileges and protections should be refused to LGBTQ+ people. I do not respect those beliefs. At all.

Now obviously, those are near the extreme end of the spectrum. But when people air objectionable beliefs aloud it is entirely appropriate to stand up against them.

It comes a moment in the discussion its better to stop before someone get offended.

Well, there is a point where it becomes unproductive. But this is a debate forum. One should have a certain understanding that one is going to be offended from time to time.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

So you claim that the Bible is inaccurate and Christianity wrong because they believe stuff that is not true and was not meant to be believed. Yes?

No! That's not what I intended to say.
The stories in Bible as they are in Bible were revealed by God (in Bahai view).
But it is not like God only speaks literally. God revealed symbolic stories. Not literal history. But some of these stories, were misunderstood by many people. because they took everything literally true. These stories have an inner meaning.
For example according to scriptures, it is said at the End Time, the Dead will be resurrected. Most people understood this, to mean a physical resurrection. But, Bahai scriptures tells us, Resurrection of the Dead, is a metaphor, meaning awakening spiritually. So, that Day has, come, and it was an allusion to Baha'u'llah's revelation. As even the time of it was prophesied in the Bible. Bahai scriptures tells us, where in Bible the time of Manifestation of the Bab and Baha'u'llah was mentioned, and we now can see!

Moreover, When Bahais say Bible could have inaccuracies, we don't mean in a sense that it is illegitimate or has any false teachings at all. We just mean, some words may not be exactly the exact word that came out of mouth of Jesus, possibly because of errors in copying scriptures or unintentional mistakes of scribes. But not to the level that would make the Bible's illegitimate or unreliable, or make any difference.

Sounds like some pretty dodgy post hoc rationalisation.
The reality is that those "messengers" made statements and claims that are not true or are inaccurate, and now we know that, religionists are desperate to explain away the error, because they can't face the simple fact that they were not "messengers of god" communicating divine revelations, they were merely dishonest or delusional or just well-meaning but ill-informed people with an agenda.

I don't know how you concluded this. But that is not a Bahai view.

I'm just repeating what a Baha'i on here claimed. However, as a Baha'i who has thoroughly, soundly and independently researched Bahaullah and his writings, I would have thought that you would know the reference. Let me know if you don't and I will dig it up for you.

What reference from Bahai writings are you looking for? I didn't understand.

 

[ppp]

Does he not have balls enough to answer my question to him?

Are those real questions? They seem more like complaints made in question form. Or at least loaded with the presumption that he is unreasonable. I am looking at your questions in post #1577.

That you dont respect certain views are ok, the4e are vi3ws i dont respects too.

Cool. I am glad we are in accord there.

But day in daybour smearing Baha'i or Muslims for something.

Did you really mean "smear"? Smear usually means to say false things about a person so that they look bad. Has he said something false?

And the4e are differences within view in both bahai and islam, not everyone believe 100% same

I'm sorry. I am not sure what this is saying. I am having a hard time parsing the syntax.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

God sounds a bit like an absentee father.
Do you think that parents of the children they bring into the world are responsible for them, or do they similarly not owe them anything?

Yes, in that sense true. But what I mean, is, for example, a fly cannot complain to God, why you did not create him as an eagle. A monkey cannot complain why He did not create him as a human. A human cannot complain to God, why God created some humans smarter, or more beautiful. God does not owe anyone. He gave everyone according to His own will. And whatever He gave, it came from Him. It is just to some He gave more. That seems to include from spiritual perspective as well. Some are guided more to the truth. Some less. But all are guided. It is relative.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

And how is that worded in the Baha'i writings? I hear Baha'is try and use a verse in Daniel to "seal" up the meaning of the whole Bible. I hope that you have more than that. Oh, and did it really matter what they revealed when God knew that the followers were going to be the ones writing the message down... and that they'd get it wrong.

Yes, Daniel said the Book is to remain sealed till End Time. Then we see in Revelation, the Promised One removes the seal of the Book of God. It means, He reveals the mysteries that were sealed in the Book.
But also, Jesus said this time I spoke Figuratively, but when I return I will speak plainly of the Father. We now know, what He meant

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Do you think that he should respect a given belief just because someone has that belief? Also curious.

I always welcome a discussion.
I can always learn more, when my beliefs are challenged.
The only thing I ask, is to be fair in discussions and debates.
It shouldn't be about winning or loosing.
It is about learning each other's views.
Should set aside love and hate feelings.
My intention is never to defend Baha'u'llah. I only intend to discuss and describe it fairly and factually. And every time, I discuss it, it makes me learn more, or helps me remember things I had learned before. So, I am completely fine with it.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

But that would have been the perfect way to demonstrate his existence and the truth of his message - as new worlds were discovered and new peoples connected it turns out that they all have messengers revealing exactly the same message.
Bam!
But no. The best idea god could come up with was to make it look exactly as if there were thousands of different gods and messages, all conflicting with each other, and all equally convince they are the one true religion.
So the evidence suggests that either god is an idiot, or he doesn't exist.
QED.

Bahai scriptures tells us, Religions have two kinds of teachings.
1. A part of it, are the laws and ordinances, such as prayers, fasting, punishments prescribed for stealing, laws of marriage and divorce. These laws and ordinances were revealed according to the exigencies of the time, place and culture of people at the time. Religion of God does not appear in vacuum. It appears in the context of culture and conditions. Thus, as in each Age and place, the conditions of people was different so, was the ordinances, laws and the culture of Religion that was revealed. In this sense God gave different ordinances in different times. This is why you see, Christianity is different from Islam, Islam different from Hinduism, and all for all are different.
2. The second type of teachings are not ordinances. They are spiritual teachings. These spiritual teachings are essential part of all religions of God, and they are the same. In that sense all religions are no different from each other in principle. A good example of it, is the golden rule:

Golden Rule - Wikipedia

 

[Trailblazer]

That's a pretty damning indictment of your own faith. And kinda sums up the problems you all have here. What you say sounds like complete nonsense. And you even admit that, but you keep saying it and also claiming its is true.

Did you read what I said in context?

One reason you do not believe that the Baha'i Faith is true because you listen to what Baha'is say instead of investigating for yourself. It does not MATTER what Baha'is claim about the Baha'i Faith or other religions, it only matters if Baha'u'llah was a Messenger of God or not. Nothing else matters.

A seeker of truth is supposed to investigate for themselves instead of listening to what other people say, be they Baha'is or anyone else.

The evidence suggests he was not. It is only Baha'is insisting that he was that perpetuates the issue.

The evidence suggests to you he was not but that does not mean that the evidence does not suggest that Baha'u'llah was a Messenger of God.

So we can cease to regard the words and deeds of Bahaullah as a standard for the true understanding and recognition of God and His Prophets. We cannot use his words to determine if he was a messenger of god.

Baha'u'llah was not a mortal man, He was a Manifestation of God. We are supposed to look at the words and deeds of Baha'u'llah and use those as a standard for recognizing Him rather than listening to what 'people' say about Him.

And how do we do that if we cannot use the writings of Bahaullah? They seem to be your only source!

The Writings of Baha'u'llah certainly are not our only source. There are many other sources of information about Baha'u'llah and the Baha'i Faith. For example, we can read about the Person of Baha'u'llah and what He did on His Mission on earth in books such as the following:

God Passes By (1844-1944)

The Revelation of Bahá'u'lláh, Volumes 1-4, which cover the 40 years of His Mission, from 1853-1892.

So basically, whatever conclusion we come to from looking within ourselves must necessarily be true.

I never said that.

Note: without Baha'i writings as a reference source, it its impossible to come to the conclusion that Baha'u'llah was a messenger of god.

No, there are many other sources of information about the Baha'i Faith.
Below are just a few examples.

Bahá’u’lláh and the New Era

BBC - Religion: Bahá'í

Baha’i Faith | History, Practices, & Facts

The Baháʼí Faith - Home

 

[Spirit of Light]

Are those real questions? They seem more like complaints made in question form. Or at least loaded with the presumption that he is unreasonable. I am looking at your questions in post #1577.


Cool. I am glad we are in accord there.


Did you really mean "smear"? Smear usually means to say false things about a person so that they look bad. Has he said something false?


I'm sorry. I am not sure what this is saying. I am having a hard time parsing the syntax.

Yes i meant what i asked.

Yes i meant smear..

 

[ppp]

I always welcome a discussion.
I can always learn more, when my beliefs are challenged.
The only thing I ask, is to be fair in discussions and debates.
It shouldn't be about winning or loosing.
It is about learning each other's views.
Should set aside love and hate feelings.
My intention is never to defend Baha'u'llah. I only intend to discuss and describe it fairly and factually. And every time, I discuss it, it makes me learn more, or helps me remember things I had learned before. So, I am completely fine with it.

I respectfully disagree. I am interested in finding the strengths of other views, and the weaknesses in my own with regards to a description of reality, and paths to my goals. In my experience, that is best discovered through an honest dialectic that is a blend of cooperation and competition.

If you just want to describe, then why are you in an open debate forum. As opposed to one of the protected forums?

 

[ppp]

Yes i meant what i asked.

I cannot speak for KWED, but I usually either ignore loaded questions, or disassemble them for a critique of their unwarranted parts.

Yes i meant smear..

Can you point to one of his posts that you consider to be a smear? If you don't want to, that's fine. I am not trying to get you to do homework.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I cannot speak for KWED, but I usually either ignore loaded questions, or disassemble them for a critique of their unwarranted parts.


Can you point to one of his posts that you consider to be a smear? If you don't want to, that's fine. I am not trying to get you to do homework.

Mostly all in this OP.....

 

[ppp]

Mostly all in this OP.....

The OP was written by TrailBlazer

 

[Spirit of Light]

The OP was written by TrailBlazer

Yes but the trash is not from TrailBlazer

 

[ppp]

Yes but the trash is not from TrailBlazer

Is 1571 trash? Why or why not?

 

[Spirit of Light]

Is 1571 trash? Why or why not?

As long it is mocking of baha'i'u'llah yes it is

 

[ppp]

As long it is mocking of baha'i'u'llah yes it is

So what do you mean by mocking? Is any criticism of your religion or your founder considered to be mockery? If I say that the Baha'i position on marriage equality is deplorable and indefensible, am I mocking?