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Are Mormons Christians?

Is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints a Christian denomination?


  • Total voters
    84

bible truth

Active Member
Apparently we aren't accepting the 'right Jesus Christ'. Which I find a bit silly; He's the same Jesus Christ as all the other Christians, we just view Him differently. For example, let's take my Aunt Florence; I know her as a sweet, kind old lady, but you may know her as a harley-riding, leather-wearing biker chick. She is still the same person, just viewed with a different perspective. That's how it is with Jesus Christ; non-trinitarians (and mainly LDS) see Jesus Christ as not part of the trinity (but still being one with the Father in purpose), and the Trinitarians see Him as one in being with the Father. He is still the same Saviour. The same Saviour that died for all of us; we just see Him a bit differently.

Revelation is never based on personal opinions. Spritual saving truth is defined by God Himself. The Gospel of God is His gospel and not yours or mine. God determines the rules, not you or me. God reveals truth and conceals truth. The Bible never talks about "accepting Christ". Since you stated that 'Christ died for all of us', are you stating all people (universally) will be saved? - BT

John 8

But he continued, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins."
Who are you?" they asked.

"Just what I have been claiming all along," Jesus replied. "I have much to say in judgment of you. But he who sent me is reliable, and what I have heard from him I tell
 

SoyLeche

meh...
Hey Beckysoup,

Please be patient with my lack of understanding. The Holy Bible speaks of the gospel as the "Gospel of God, Gospel of Christ, Gospel, Gospel of Paul, God's Gospel, different gospel which is no gospel at all, etc. The Holy Bible never uses the term "FULLNESS" of the gospel.
Neither do any of the LDS scriptures. Why does it matter if that specific terminology was used or not?
 

Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
i do not believe in mormons....
Just don't pick them to play for your basketball team or football team or what have you. Cause you know those Mormons aren't that athletic so I can understand your lack of belief in them....:cover:

Goooooo BYU....:cheer:
 

RevOxley_501

Well-Known Member
Just don't pick them to play for your basketball team or football team or what have you. Cause you know those Mormons aren't that athletic so I can understand your lack of belief in them....:cover:

Goooooo BYU....:cheer:

amen

















and dont get me started on not drinking coffee















and special underwear (another joke)
 

bible truth

Active Member
Neither do any of the LDS scriptures. Why does it matter if that specific terminology was used or not?

Okay, since you are a member of the LDS church, please explain what you mean by the "FULLNESS" of the gospel. Did the Apostle Paul, Apostle Peter, Apostle John, etc proclaim a partial and incomplete gospel to the world? How do you reconcile this core LDS belief with Galatians chapter 1? Do you agree about the LDS mission of the restoration of the historical christian church from apostasy? - BT
 

Gentoo

The Feisty Penguin
Revelation is never based on personal opinions.

Revelation is nothing but personal opinion, no one is going to have the exact same revelation as someone else. If you can't justify your beliefs in your own way then you might as well not believe in anything, since you'll just be repeating what everyone else says.
 

porkchop

I'm Heffer!!!
This is so weird, i was just reading about this subject. Sorry to cut and paste, but the way its put is really good, and far better than i could.

Why Mormons Are Not Christian.
First: Mormons do not follow or believe in the historic Jesus Christ of the Bible, but rather in a difference Jesus. This is why most Biblical Christians emphatically insist that Mormons are not Christians. Let me explain.
The god of the Mormons is not the God of the Bible. To the Mormons, Jesus is the firstborn son of an exalted "man" who became the god of this world. The man-god of Mormonism was made the god of this world because of his good works on another planet somewhere out in the universe. He "earned" godhood, and was thus appointed by a counsel of gods in the heavens to his high position as the god of planet Earth. The Mormon god of this world was a man, like all men, who became a god.Note the following quote from the Mormon Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, page 123, made by the LDS Apostle Orson Hyde:
"Remember that God, our heavenly Father, was perhaps once a child, a mortal like we ourselves, and rose step by step in the scale of progress, in the school of advancement; has moved forward and overcome, until He has arrived at the point were He is."
Lorenzo Snow, late President of the Mormon church, made this statement in the second verse of his famous poem entitled, "Man's Destiny":
"As Abra'm, Isaac, Jacob, too, babes, then men--to gods they grew. As man now is, our God once was; As now God is, so man may be,-- Which doth unfold man's destiny. . ."
The God of the Bible is not an exalted man. The God of the Bible is omnipresent, omnipotent, and omniscient. The Bible says He is the only God and there are no other Gods. He had no beginning or end and he is a spirit being and never was a man.
Note the clear teaching of the Bible as to who the real God is:
Isaiah 43:10-11, "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour."
Isaiah 44:6, "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God."
Isaiah 44:8, "Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any."
Jeremiah 23:24, "Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD."
Malachi 3:6, "For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed."
John 1:16-18, "And of his fullness have all we received, and grace for grace. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."
John 4:24, "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."
Romans 1:22, "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things."
Colossians 1:15, "Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:"
1 Timothy 1:17, "Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen."
Second: The Jesus Christ of Mormonism is not the Jesus Christ of the Bible.
The Mormon Jesus is the son of this man-god. The Mormon Jesus is the brother of Lucifer, and according to LDS teaching, he married several of the Marys of the New Testament. He is not, to the LDS church, "God incarnate" as the Bible plainly states. Clearly, the Mormon god and Jesus are not the true.
God and Jesus of the Bible
Orson Hyde, the Mormon Apostle said, "We say it was Jesus Christ who was married in the marriage of Cana of Galilee" (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 2, page 80).
Brigham Young, said, "When the Virgin Mary conceived the Child Jesus ... He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. And who is His father? He is the first of the human family" (Journal of Discourses, pages 50-51).
Compare this with the Word of God, "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God" (Luke 1:35).

Note that in the following verses the Bible says salvation, which is forgiveness of sin and receiving of eternal life, is a gift of God, and it is not obtained by "works":
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast" (Ephesians 2:8-9).
"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" (Romans 4:5).
The real Jesus Christ is the "only begotten of the Father." He is not one of many sons and certainly not the brother of Satan as the following Scriptures clearly state:
John 1:18, "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."
John 3:16, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
John 3:18, "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
Hebrews 1:5, "For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?"
1 John 4:9, "In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him."
Jesus Christ of the Bible is God Incarnate in Man
John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
John 1:14, "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."
John 10:30 "I and my Father are one." Jesus claimed to be one with the Father.
In John 14:9, Jesus said to see him is to see the Father.
In John 8:25, 56-59, 18:6,8 Jesus used the Jehovistic "I AM," identifying Himself as God.
In Matthew 22:42-45, Jesus claimed to be the Old Testament "Adonai."
In Mark 2:5-7, Jesus forgave sin, a prerogative belonging only to God.
In Matthew 14:33; 28:9; and John 20:28-29, Jesus asserted Himself as God by allowing men to worship Him.
John 1:3 states that Jesus is the Creator, and Genesis 1:1 states that God was the Creator.
Only those who believe in the real Biblical God and Jesus Christ have the right to use the name "Christian." The Mormon prophets historically have openly ridiculed those who believe in the God, Jesus, and Holy Spirit that the Bible reveals.
One question that I would ask all Mormons is this: "If I accept you as a Christian, will you accept me as a Mormon?" Would you accept me as a Mormon if I reject Joseph Smith and all the LDS prophets as being prophets of God. If I do not believe in the Book of Mormon or the LDS Scriptures, baptisms for the dead, the temple endowments, the LDS gospel, would you accept me as a Mormon? The answer is obviously, you would not. In like manner, when Mormonism denies the Bible and every Christian doctrine do you think that Biblical Christians should accept Mormons as Christians? Again the answer is very obvious, no we will not. You cannot legitimately claim to be Christians when you refuse to accept what the Bible teaches and what a true Christian believes.

Jesus said that He alone was the truth, the way and the life.
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me" (John 14:6).

Let God speak for Himself by His Word.
Matt. 24:24, "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."
"Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (Acts 14:10-12).

Im sorry its a lenghty post, i thought about cutting some of it out, but felt it was all worth reading and raised some interesting points.
I put the part in bold that i would like any mormons to respond to, as i think its a very valid question. Thanks. Bethxx
 

Bishka

Veteran Member
I put the part in bold that i would like any mormons to respond to, as i think its a very valid question. Thanks. Bethxx

Porkchop, I appreciate your enthusiasm, but haven't we gone over this again. One, you've quoted sources that obviously are not doctrine, and you know that (we've explained this about a billion times), but still you use them to 'try to prove us wrong'. We never try to 'prove you wrong', so why do it to us? Does it make you feel better about yourself? Does it make you feel 'right' and that you are going to heaven? v

If I have the time, I'll try to respond to the copy-and-paste job of yours, but we've clearly gone over this with you before, you just don't like the answers.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
Hi Katzpur and other Mormon friends,

If you can honestly agree with the two links to the Christian Faith, I will consider the Mormon Church to be another Christian denomination. Please study the two “Christian Statement of Faith” below and compare it with "The Church of Latter Day Saints Statement of Faith”. - BT

http://www.ligonier.org/thegospel_affirmations.php


http://www.t4g.org/T4TG-statement.pdf

I find it odd that a denomination feels it necessary to copyright it's statement of faith. I would have thought they would only be to pleased for it to be spread far and wide.

"THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST: AN EVANGELICAL CELEBRATION" IS COPYRIGHT 1999 BY THE COMMITTEE ON EVANGELICAL UNITY IN THE GOSPEL, P.O. BOX 5551, GLENDALE HEIGHTS, IL 60139-5551
But then I do not believe in the book alone, but I would not go so far as to say such believers were not Christian, Just in error.

One can not be exclusive and Christian. That is certainly not supported by Christ's teachings.
 

SoyLeche

meh...
Okay, since you are a member of the LDS church, please explain what you mean by the "FULLNESS" of the gospel. Did the Apostle Paul, Apostle Peter, Apostle John, etc proclaim a partial and incomplete gospel to the world? How do you reconcile this core LDS belief with Galatians chapter 1? Do you agree about the LDS mission of the restoration of the historical christian church from apostasy? - BT
No, Peter, John, etc proclaimed the "Fullness of the Gospel". It was those who came after them that lost some of it.

I don't see any need to reconcile Galatians chapter 1 with LDS belief. We don't believe that we are preaching a "different gospel" than Paul did.

Yes, I do.
 

Bishka

Veteran Member
This is so weird, i was just reading about this subject. Sorry to cut and paste, but the way its put is really good, and far better than i could.

You mean they could make up stuff better then you?

Why Mormons Are Not Christian.
First: Mormons do not follow or believe in the historic Jesus Christ of the Bible, but rather in a difference Jesus. This is why most Biblical Christians emphatically insist that Mormons are not Christians. Let me explain.
The god of the Mormons is not the God of the Bible. To the Mormons, Jesus is the firstborn son of an exalted "man" who became the god of this world. The man-god of Mormonism was made the god of this world because of his good works on another planet somewhere out in the universe. He "earned" godhood, and was thus appointed by a counsel of gods in the heavens to his high position as the god of planet Earth. The Mormon god of this world was a man, like all men, who became a god.Note the following quote from the Mormon Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, page 123, made by the LDS Apostle Orson Hyde:
"Remember that God, our heavenly Father, was perhaps once a child, a mortal like we ourselves, and rose step by step in the scale of progress, in the school of advancement; has moved forward and overcome, until He has arrived at the point were He is."
Lorenzo Snow, late President of the Mormon church, made this statement in the second verse of his famous poem entitled, "Man's Destiny":
"As Abra'm, Isaac, Jacob, too, babes, then men--to gods they grew. As man now is, our God once was; As now God is, so man may be,-- Which doth unfold man's destiny. . ."
The God of the Bible is not an exalted man. The God of the Bible is omnipresent, omnipotent, and omniscient. The Bible says He is the only God and there are no other Gods. He had no beginning or end and he is a spirit being and never was a man.
.

Funny, none of this is actual doctrine. Please before you cut and paste, realize that nothing is official doctrine unless it comes out of our scriptures. You are trying to make us be something we really aren't. Just makes you look foolish.

I won't even address the rest, because it is in the same vein as this first 'point'. I'm not sure how you can buy into this foolish talk, after we have clarly laid out what we believe; several times in fact; yet you still keep going back to these ideas--when we ahve explained they are not official doctrine.

What is it you really want Beth? Honestly. It's clear you don't care what we explain or we wouldn't we having this conversation.
 

Halcyon

Lord of the Badgers
"Jesus said to his disciples, "Compare me to someone and tell me whom I am like."

Simon Peter said to him, "You are like a righteous messenger."
Matthew said to him, "You are like a wise philosopher."

Thomas said to him, "Master, my mouth is utterly unable to say what you are like."
It seems to me that people are often telling Christ who He is, rather than having Christ tell them who He is, bible truth.

You claim Mormons are not Christian because they do not believe in 'your "historical" Christ', well it seems to me that there is only one Christ and the Mormons follow his teachings like any other Christian, and from what i've seen, they practice those teachings better than many.

You, bible truth, are telling Christ who He is - you take your interpretation of His followers' words and force them upon the teacher, you claim the Christ that you alone see, like Peter and Matthew above - i've yet to see a Mormon claim there is more than one Christ.

Mormons are Christians because they follow Him as teacher, master and Lord. They also follow his example, loving their neighbours and recognising their own flaws before they observe flaws in others.
 

bible truth

Active Member
No, Peter, John, etc proclaimed the "Fullness of the Gospel". It was those who came after them that lost some of it.

I don't see any need to reconcile Galatians chapter 1 with LDS belief. We don't believe that we are preaching a "different gospel" than Paul did.

Yes, I do.

Hey SoyLeche,

Thank you for your answers. Are you saying that I can take the biblical writing of Peter, John, Paul, etc and receive the "FULLNESS of the gospel" within biblical revelation alone? I believe Paul wrote Galatians 1 within the context of the rest of the Bible alone? Do you agree or disagree with my conclusion? Why or why not? - BT
 

SoyLeche

meh...
Im sorry its a lenghty post, i thought about cutting some of it out, but felt it was all worth reading and raised some interesting points.
I put the part in bold that i would like any mormons to respond to, as i think its a very valid question. Thanks. Bethxx
If I were a suporter I'd provide you with a Venn diagram. Instead, you'll have to imagine it.

Imagine a circle. Everything inside the circle is "Christian", and everything outside of the circle is "Not Christian". Now, imagine another circle completely inside the first ciricle. Everything inside this second circle is "Mormon" and everything outside is "Not Mormon". Now, you can see that there is a space there that is inside the first circle and outside of the second circle.

Maybe that helps, maybe it doesn't. Anyway, the main point is that your quote says "You cannot legitimately claim to be Christians when you refuse to accept what the Bible teaches and what a true Christian believes". This isn't true. We don't refuse to accept what the Bible teaches. We may refuse to accept your interpretation of what the Bible teaches, but that's it.

There is also a bit of circular logic there. "You aren't a True Christian because you don't believe what a True Christian believes." Since we are discussing what the definition of a "True Christian" is, it is circular to use "what a True Christian" believes as one of the requirements. We haven't decided what constitutes a "True Christian" yet.

As for the "Am I a Mormon" - this one is easy. In order to be a member of the LDS church there is a specific set of requirements (and, no, such a set of requirements does not exist in order to be a "Christian". There may be such a thing in order to be a "Catholic", or a member of the "Podunkville 1st Prespeterian Church", etc, but there isn't one for "Christianity" in general"). Aside from that, there is a list of people who have fulfilled said requirements. If you are not on that list, you are not a member of the LDS church. (This leaves open the question of whether groups like the Fundamentalist LDS church are "Mormons" or not. I personally think they should be able to use the term, but to avoid confusion they should use the "Fundamentalist" along with the "Mormon" - and people should know that there is a BIG difference between "Mormons" and "Fundamentalist Mormons".)
 

SoyLeche

meh...
Hey SoyLeche,

Thank you for your answers. Are you saying that I can take the biblical writing of Peter, John, Paul, etc and receive the "FULLNESS of the gospel" within biblical revelation alone? I believe Paul wrote Galatians 1 within the context of the rest of the Bible alone? Do you agree or disagree with my conclusion? Why or why not? - BT
You do realize that we have very little of what these men taught, right?

The "Bible" didn't exist when Paul wrote Galatians.
 

Mister_T

Forum Relic
Premium Member
We run into the problem of "What is a Christian?" when one group claims exclusivity over another. The truth of the matter is that there are many different branches of Christianity because they all differ on "details." Mormons accept Jesus as their lord and savior. Mormonism is just another branch of Christianity.

There is NOT ONE sect of Christianity that follows the Bible to an absolute tee. If there were, men would still be forced to marry their brothers widow and divorce would not take place unless there was marital unfaithfulness. So for one group to say "they're doing it right and others are doing it wrong" is hypocritical.
 

bible truth

Active Member
You do realize that we have very little of what these men taught, right?

The "Bible" didn't exist when Paul wrote Galatians.

SoyLeche,

You have found the heart of the division of Mormonism and Historical Biblical Christianity. Where and how does God speak to fallen mankind? The 1st Century church relied on primarily the Old Testament. The letters written by Paul and other biblical writers are addressed to the 1st century church and were self-authenticating by the church itself. Councils were not needed by the church to know the apostolic authority the letters had. You avoided my question to you? Please answer before we continue. - BT
 
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