Are Natural Disasters Punishment From God?

[Pagan_Patriot]

Where's your source.

 

[Ingledsva]

Where's your source.

LOL! You think they are making a reference to John the Baptist and homosexual clothing? How about common sense?

The Thesaurus Linguae Graecae. TLG has collected and digitized most literary texts written in Greek, from the 8th century BC to the fall of Byzantium in AD 1453. They have 73 references to the arsenokoit stem. There are NO early Greek uses of the word as “homosexual.” LATER - the church decides to translate it as such – then these later texts copy the church original. So - obviously it does not mean homosexual.

 

[natasha levchenko]

This idea that Satan makes people do bad things - is NOT in the OT. The NT Christians took that idea from later groups.

No being makes you do bad things - you do bad things because YOU want to.

sorry, i did not catch. you want to say,there was no word about Satan in OT.
afaik it is written in Job 1:6*-12:"Now it came to be the day when the sons of the [true] God entered to take their station before Jehovah, and even Satan proceeded to enter right among them.
7*Then Jehovah said to Satan: “Where do you come from?” At that Satan answered Jehovah and said: “From roving about in the earth and from walking about in it.” 8*And Jehovah went on to say to Satan: “Have you set your heart upon my servant Job, that there is no one like him in the earth, a man blameless and upright, fearing God and turning aside from bad?” 9*At that Satan answered Jehovah and said: “Is it for nothing that Job has feared God? 10*Have not you yourself put up a hedge about him and about his house and about everything that he has all around? The work of his hands you have blessed, and his livestock itself has spread abroad in the earth. 11*But, for a change, thrust out your hand, please, and touch everything he has [and see] whether he will not curse you to your very face.” 12*Accordingly Jehovah said to Satan: “Look! Everything that he has is in your hand. Only against him himself do not thrust out your hand!” So Satan went out away from the person of Jehovah.
If Satan were the evil in a person, the evil in this case would have to be in God. But that is in complete disagreement with what the Bible tells us about God as being One “in whom there is no unrighteousness.”

 

[Ingledsva]

This idea that Satan makes people do bad things - is NOT in the OT. The NT Christians took that idea from later groups.

No being makes you do bad things - you do bad things because YOU want to.

sorry, i did not catch. you want to say,there was no word about Satan in OT.
afaik it is written in Job 1:6*-12:"Now it came to be the day when the sons of the [true] God entered to take their station before Jehovah, and even Satan proceeded to enter right among them.
7*Then Jehovah said to Satan: “Where do you come from?” At that Satan answered Jehovah and said: “From roving about in the earth and from walking about in it.” 8*And Jehovah went on to say to Satan: “Have you set your heart upon my servant Job, that there is no one like him in the earth, a man blameless and upright, fearing God and turning aside from bad?” 9*At that Satan answered Jehovah and said: “Is it for nothing that Job has feared God? 10*Have not you yourself put up a hedge about him and about his house and about everything that he has all around? The work of his hands you have blessed, and his livestock itself has spread abroad in the earth. 11*But, for a change, thrust out your hand, please, and touch everything he has [and see] whether he will not curse you to your very face.” 12*Accordingly Jehovah said to Satan: “Look! Everything that he has is in your hand. Only against him himself do not thrust out your hand!” So Satan went out away from the person of Jehovah.
If Satan were the evil in a person, the evil in this case would have to be in God. But that is in complete disagreement with what the Bible tells us about God as being One “in whom there is no unrighteousness.”

You misunderstood what I said. Satan is mentioned in the OT. However, he is a servant of God whose job is to test people by putting stumbling blocks/temptation in their path. If found to have failed the test, Satan brings them before YHVH and condemns them. Satan as an evil autonomous being out to make people sin for sin's sake, was added later.

Zec 3:1 And he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to accuse him.

Psa 109:6 Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand.
Psa 109:7 When he shall be judged, let him be condemned: and let his prayer become sin.

Job 1:8 And said YHVH to Satan, do put your regard upon my servant Job for there is none like him on the earth, a man pious and upright, fearing Elohiym and turning from wickedness.

Mat 4:1 Then Jesus was led forth into the wilderness by the Holy Spirit to be tested/proved by the devil.

*

 

[Ashoka]

Well ya. That's part of my faith. He does punish people, and according to my faith, homosexuality is wrong. That's all simple as I can put it. Why he kills everyone because of what a few do though, I can't answer for you.

I don't mean this in a mean way, I promise-but, have you ever thought of questioning why this god would punish innocent people for the "transgressions" of a few? And have you ever wonfered that, if this god is sending natural disasters to harm and kill people because of his so-called "offended honor", is he really worthy of any worship?

Add to that, when the people gather together and help each other through a tragedy, when your god is no where to be found, don't you think that the people he is supposedly "punishing" in the first place show more love, kindness, and compassion than your god, who you claim is love?

Just some food for thought.

 

[natasha levchenko]

You misunderstood what I said. Satan is mentioned in the OT. However, he is a servant of God whose job is to test people by putting stumbling blocks/temptation in their path. If found to have failed the test, Satan brings them before YHVH and condemns them. Satan as an evil autonomous being out to make people sin for sin's sake, was added later.

Zec 3:1 And he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to accuse him.

Psa 109:6 Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand.
Psa 109:7 When he shall be judged, let him be condemned: and let his prayer become sin.

Job 1:8 And said YHVH to Satan, do put your regard upon my servant Job for there is none like him on the earth, a man pious and upright, fearing Elohiym and turning from wickedness.

Mat 4:1 Then Jesus was led forth into the wilderness by the Holy Spirit to be tested/proved by the devil.

*[/QU


I am glad that you brought that question up. It is one that disturbs many honest-hearted people.
God has permitted both Satan and humans to try every form of government of their own making. None have brought lasting happiness. God has let mankind go to the limit in pursuing ways of life that ignore His righteous standards. The fruitage speaks for itself. As the Bible truthfully says: “It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step.” (Jer. 10:23) At the same time God has given his servants opportunity to prove their loyalty to him by their acts of loving obedience, and this in the face of enticements and persecution instigated by Satan. Satan inst God's servant. otherwise,from the very beginning Jehovah has planned everything bad for people but i think :to be the source of wickedness and allowing it to happen is not the same..

 

[Pagan_Patriot]

I don't mean this in a mean way, I promise-but, have you ever thought of questioning why this god would punish innocent people for the "transgressions" of a few? And have you ever wonfered that, if this god is sending natural disasters to harm and kill people because of his so-called "offended honor", is he really worthy of any worship?

Add to that, when the people gather together and help each other through a tragedy, when your god is no where to be found, don't you think that the people he is supposedly "punishing" in the first place show more love, kindness, and compassion than your god, who you claim is love?

Just some food for thought.

Well it's all to test us.

 

[Ashoka]

Well it's all to test us.

That's too simple an answer. And is he not omniscient? Why would he test us if he already knew what we would do?

 

[conker]

Nope. It's probably the world's version of auto-correct.

 

[Ingledsva]

You misunderstood what I said. Satan is mentioned in the OT. However, he is a servant of God whose job is to test people by putting stumbling blocks/temptation in their path. If found to have failed the test, Satan brings them before YHVH and condemns them. Satan as an evil autonomous being out to make people sin for sin's sake, was added later.

Zec 3:1 And he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to accuse him.

Psa 109:6 Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand.
Psa 109:7 When he shall be judged, let him be condemned: and let his prayer become sin.

Job 1:8 And said YHVH to Satan, do put your regard upon my servant Job for there is none like him on the earth, a man pious and upright, fearing Elohiym and turning from wickedness.

Mat 4:1 Then Jesus was led forth into the wilderness by the Holy Spirit to be tested/proved by the devil.

I am glad that you brought that question up. It is one that disturbs many honest-hearted people.
God has permitted both Satan and humans to try every form of government of their own making. None have brought lasting happiness. God has let mankind go to the limit in pursuing ways of life that ignore His righteous standards. The fruitage speaks for itself. As the Bible truthfully says: “It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step.” (Jer. 10:23) At the same time God has given his servants opportunity to prove their loyalty to him by their acts of loving obedience, and this in the face of enticements and persecution instigated by Satan. Satan inst God's servant. otherwise,from the very beginning Jehovah has planned everything bad for people but i think :to be the source of wickedness and allowing it to happen is not the same..

Again - there is no evil Satan in the OT. He is a servant doing his job.

The evil Satan idea was made up later in the New Testament.

 

[Pegg]

You misunderstood what I said. Satan is mentioned in the OT. However, he is a servant of God whose job is to test people by putting stumbling blocks/temptation in their path.

I guess if Satan was a servant of God, he would be performing a task set by God and God would know exactly where he was and what he was doing at any given time because God would have sent him to do it....


yet when we read the account in Job, God doesnt speak to Satan as if he knew where he was and what he was doing... rather he askes Satan where he has been what he has been doing..

Job1:6*Now it came to be the day when the sons of the [true] God entered to take their station before Jehovah, and even Satan proceeded to enter right among them. 7*Then Jehovah said to Satan: “Where do you come from?...“Have you set your heart upon my servant Job”


Do you think God, or anyone, would need to ask such a question to someone who was working for them and carrying out an assignment??

 

[Ingledsva]

You misunderstood what I said. Satan is mentioned in the OT. However, he is a servant of God whose job is to test people by putting stumbling blocks/temptation in their path.

I guess if Satan was a servant of God, he would be performing a task set by God and God would know exactly where he was and what he was doing at any given time because God would have sent him to do it....


yet when we read the account in Job, God doesnt speak to Satan as if he knew where he was and what he was doing... rather he askes Satan where he has been what he has been doing..

Job1:6*Now it came to be the day when the sons of the [true] God entered to take their station before Jehovah, and even Satan proceeded to enter right among them. 7*Then Jehovah said to Satan: “Where do you come from?...“Have you set your heart upon my servant Job”


Do you think God, or anyone, would need to ask such a question to someone who was working for them and carrying out an assignment??

First - if YHVH sent him out to test people - why should he have to keep track of his every move?

On the other hand why would a God that is supposed to know everything - not know where ALL were - regardless of an evil or good designation?

And it actually says -

And YHVH said to Satan, "put thy regard upon my servant Job ..."

*

 

[Pegg]

First - if YHVH sent him out to test people - why should he have to keep track of his every move?

because the implication is that God orchestrates the test... for God to do that, he would have to have knowledge that the test was taking place. That is the only way that Satan could be acting with authority from God...God would have to know about it if he were the one who commissioned satan to do it.

On the other hand why would a God that is supposed to know everything - not know where ALL were - regardless of an evil or good designation?

exactly. And there is the proof imo that God did not commission Satan to act against Job in such a way. It makes more sense to view this satan as an angel who had left his post and gone off to do his own thing

And it actually says -

And YHVH said to Satan, "put thy regard upon my servant Job ..."

*

there is a question mark in the sentence...so its not a command.

 

[Ingledsva]

First - if YHVH sent him out to test people - why should he have to keep track of his every move?

because the implication is that God orchestrates the test... for God to do that, he would have to have knowledge that the test was taking place. That is the only way that Satan could be acting with authority from God...God would have to know about it if he were the one who commissioned satan to do it.

If he is an angel commissioned to test the people of earth - one would assume there would be no reason that YHVH would have to watch his every move.

And again - on the other hand - Why wouldn't a GOD know what Satan or any other angel was doing regardless if good or evil?

On the other hand why would a God that is supposed to know everything - not know where ALL were - regardless of an evil or good designation?

exactly. And there is the proof imo that God did not commission Satan to act against Job in such a way. It makes more sense to view this satan as an angel who had left his post and gone off to do his own thing

Even if he had gone off on his own - WHICH IT DOES NOT SAY - the Bible says YHVH is all knowing - and knows the end result - therefore would have to know where Satan was.

And it actually says -

And YHVH said to Satan, "put thy regard upon my servant Job ..."

there is a question mark in the sentence...so its not a command.

There is NO question mark, - and the first word is PUT. The Hebrew study Bible has "appoint."

*

 

[chinu]

Are Natural Disasters Punishment From God?

Natural disasters are treatments.

 

[Pegg]

If he is an angel commissioned to test the people of earth - one would assume there would be no reason that YHVH would have to watch his every move.

And again - on the other hand - Why wouldn't a GOD know what Satan or any other angel was doing regardless if good or evil?

who decided that Satan was commissioned to test people? I think if we look at all the death and destruction among mankind, Satan is doing a lot more then merely 'testing' us... we are destroying each other so he is doing far more then just testing us.

I just cant believe that idea that God designated satan the role of a tester. We dont find that explicitly stated in the scriptures...rather he is called an adversary of 'God'. So he cannot be doing what God is asking him to do if he is an adversary of God.

Even if he had gone off on his own - WHICH IT DOES NOT SAY - the Bible says YHVH is all knowing - and knows the end result - therefore would have to know where Satan was.

thats if the idea that God is all knowing is accurate. Who is to say that God watches satans every move? The bible doesnt say that. Some religious teachers came up with that idea but the bible says differently:

“You are too pure in eyes to see what is bad; and to look on trouble [with approval] you are not able.” Hab. 1:13

If satan was being sent to torment or cause trouble for mankind, it certainly isnt God who is asking him to do that.

There is NO question mark, - and the first word is PUT. The Hebrew study Bible has "appoint."

*

numerous translators recognize this sentence as a question... have they all got it wrong??

King James Version (KJV)
7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou?

Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
7 Adonai asked the Adversary, “Where are you coming from?”

1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)
7 Then the Lord said unto Satan, Whence [a]comest thou?

Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)
7 And Hashem said unto Hasatan, From where comest thou?

American Standard Version (ASV)
7 And Jehovah said unto Satan, Whence comest thou?

 

[McBell]

because the implication is that God orchestrates the test... for God to do that, he would have to have knowledge that the test was taking place. That is the only way that Satan could be acting with authority from God...God would have to know about it if he were the one who commissioned satan to do it.

Are you saying that God does not know what The Satan is doing and cannot stop The Satan from doing what God does not know The Satan is doing?

 

[McBell]

numerous translators recognize this sentence as a question... have they all got it wrong??

King James Version (KJV)
7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou?

Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
7 Adonai asked the Adversary, “Where are you coming from?”

1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)
7 Then the Lord said unto Satan, Whence [a]comest thou?

Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)
7 And Hashem said unto Hasatan, From where comest thou?

American Standard Version (ASV)
7 And Jehovah said unto Satan, Whence comest thou?

Counting the hits and ignoring the misses is not the least bit impressive.

 

[underthesun]

Personally, I view natural disasters as the divine, at least as a part of the divine.

I do not view them as punishment in any sense of the word. They are natural, they just are. Perhaps there is something to learn from them, but I do not see a reason one should try and derive some kind of ulterior motive from them. A hurricane ravages a coast. Perhaps the residents should consider that the smartest place to build a city was not below sea level, but the hurricane did not occur because there was a city there. And then there's the fact that I don't find natural disasters 'bad' or 'evil' at all in the first place. After all, a roaring fire may take many lives, but it also gives way to new life.​

 

[Pegg]

Are you saying that God does not know what The Satan is doing and cannot stop The Satan from doing what God does not know The Satan is doing?

Im saying that by God asking Satan where he had come from, God had not commissioned him to go and test people or bring trial and tribulation on them.

Im saying that Satan is NOT an agent of God doing Gods bidding.

If he were, then Gods question to him would make no sense.