Are Satan and Hell as bad they say?

[Ringer]

No. Satan is my buddy and Hell is where I will take my final stand against God if it's real.

Wait, so Satan is your friend and therefore you think he exists. Yet you question the existence of God?

 

[MEMNOCK]

Lucifer wanted to be and equal with god and essentialy revolted against him. So if Lucifer was trying to be more like god then why would he have us burning for eternity in hell when he wanted to become our savior the same as god?

Well since lucifer only exists in the beliefs of christian and anti-christian types...He is as bad as you believe he is. In other words, the religious icons that you are talking about are actually thoughtforms. A thoughtform is a collective grouping of energy assigned a name or label. It has no power over you other than what you give it through your love or fear...

 

[Riverwolf]

But with NT comparing Jesus to the Morning Star, then Jesus = Lucifer too.

There is absolutely nothing to link Lucifer to Satan, and nothing to the Devil.

As to Satan.

Other than the NT, the OT doesn't show Satan as being evil. He is God's middle man from what we can see in Job, doing God's bidding. If Satan is evil, then so is God, because God is ultimately responsible for Satan's action.

Only in NT do we see Satan turned into the Devil, a different personality altogether. Which image is true?

Whichever one people want to be true.

As I said, it doesn't matter what the authors meant. Satan has become Beelzebub, Lucifer has become Satan... not much we can do about it, other than hold our own beliefs about what it all means.

 

[gnostic]

As I said, it doesn't matter what the authors meant. Satan has become Beelzebub, Lucifer has become Satan... not much we can do about it, other than hold our own beliefs about what it all means.

I will only feel comfortable with Satan being Lucifer IF we all agree that Jesus is also Lucifer. Which is true. After all, Satan was never called Lucifer, and Jesus has been called Lucifer (Morning Star) twice.

Seriously, the verse in Isaiah can easily apply to Jesus as much as with the King of Babylon. It has much to do with interpretation, and I think that most Christians' interpretations of that verse, really, REALLY suck.

 

[PlannedObselescene]

When people now-a-days punish people, it is for the purpose that the person will not do what they did wrong again. Hell however, is not so that people will not commit "sin" again, it is so that God can punish all the "Non believers" for all eternity because they did not believe in him. If God is so benevelent and forgiving, how could he send people to this place just because they don't believe in him. You can compare God to Hitler. Hitler killed the Jews because their religious beliefs differed from his. God condemns people not because he hopes to help rehabilitate them and they can become a better person through this punishment, but because he doesn't like people that disagree with him. How can a kind, benevelant, and forgiving God do that? So, does Hell really exist? No. Does Heaven exist? No. Does God exist? No.

 

[Father Heathen]

:sarcastic

Rev 20
10And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown

Rev 21
8But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

I'm not preaching to you- i know how you hate to see anything from the bible in front of you- i'm not preaching to you

I know you're banned and all, but what makes you think that those who do not even believe in the validity, inerrancy, infallibility, authority or authenticity of the bible would actually care about what was written within it?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Wait, so Satan is your friend and therefore you think he exists. Yet you question the existence of God?

I do not believe either exist. I do however think the character of Satan is a good role model.

 

[challupa]

I know you're banned and all, but what makes you think that those who do not even believe in the validity, inerrancy, infallibility, authority or authenticity of the bible would actually care about what was written within it?

Okay, this is as good a time as any to ask, what is Banned in the title of some members mean. It obviously doesn't mean they are banned from here so what does it mean??

 

[Father Heathen]

Okay, this is as good a time as any to ask, what is Banned in the title of some members mean. It obviously doesn't mean they are banned from here so what does it mean??

That's exactly what it means.

 

[challupa]

That's exactly what it means.

What?? How can they post here if they're banned?

 

[Father Heathen]

What?? How can they post here if they're banned?

The posts you see were made before they were actually banned.

Edit: if you were confused by my responding to them, I was''t actually expecting a reply from them. I just wanted to a raise a point about the flawed logic of their post. A posthumous refuting of sorts.

 

[Riverwolf]

I will only feel comfortable with Satan being Lucifer IF we all agree that Jesus is also Lucifer. Which is true. After all, Satan was never called Lucifer, and Jesus has been called Lucifer (Morning Star) twice.

Seriously, the verse in Isaiah can easily apply to Jesus as much as with the King of Babylon. It has much to do with interpretation, and I think that most Christians' interpretations of that verse, really, REALLY suck.

Well, can't we simply agree to disagree?

Besides, my views on Lucifer/Satan/etc. are also different from the mainstream. But I also acknowledge what that mainstream is, and that there's nothing to be done about it.

 

[Riverwolf]

When people now-a-days punish people, it is for the purpose that the person will not do what they did wrong again. Hell however, is not so that people will not commit "sin" again, it is so that God can punish all the "Non believers" for all eternity because they did not believe in him. If God is so benevelent and forgiving, how could he send people to this place just because they don't believe in him. You can compare God to Hitler. Hitler killed the Jews because their religious beliefs differed from his. God condemns people not because he hopes to help rehabilitate them and they can become a better person through this punishment, but because he doesn't like people that disagree with him. How can a kind, benevelant, and forgiving God do that? So, does Hell really exist? No. Does Heaven exist? No. Does God exist? No.

So if God fits the picture you've just painted, he doesn't exist?

What if he isn't like that at all?

 

[challupa]

The posts you see were made before they were actually banned.

Edit: if you were confused by my responding to them, I was''t actually expecting a reply from them. I just wanted to a raise a point about the flawed logic of their post. A posthumous refuting of sorts.

Oh okay, now that makes sense. I've been seeing it by people's names a lot on here and now I know. Thanks.

 

[Heneni]

Lucifer tried to create another paradise, and ended up creating hell, I think is what happened.

He doesn't want us to suffer. He took pity on us and gave us fire, for crying out loud! (Lucifer and Prometheus are the same beings in my opinion) It's just that in trying to help us, he ends up hurting us. Though with the whole "fire" thing, the ill that caused was really just Zeus being Zeus.

This is slightly of topic here...but im interested to know when lucifer took pity on us and gave us fire. If you have a bible reference that would be nice otherwise whatever else you have.

Thanks

 

[Riverwolf]

This is slightly of topic here...but im interested to know when lucifer took pity on us and gave us fire. If you have a bible reference that would be nice otherwise whatever else you have.

Thanks

It's not a Biblical concept, or a story from that region at all; it's a Greek legend.

When man was first created, they were shivering, eating raw food, and just miserable. Prometheus took pity on them, and stole fire from the gods and gave it to mankind. From then on, mankind thrived and became great, building civilizations and great cities. Zeus was angered, and condemned Prometheus to be chained to a cliff face to have his liver eaten by a vulture. Since Prometheus is an immortal, his liver would grow back, so it's constantly getting eaten. (he was later rescued by Herakles)

To me, this is reminiscent of the story of Eden, where the Serpent indirectly gave knowledge to mankind and made them like gods. And the Serpent has often been believed to be Satan, so... in my mind Prometheus and Lucifer("Bringer of Light") are the same beings. The legends are different, but the concept is the same: a being took pity on a miserable people and gave them what was originally the gods' (God's) alone, and was punished.

 

[Heneni]

It's not a Biblical concept, or a story from that region at all; it's a Greek legend.

When man was first created, they were shivering, eating raw food, and just miserable. Prometheus took pity on them, and stole fire from the gods and gave it to mankind. From then on, mankind thrived and became great, building civilizations and great cities. Zeus was angered, and condemned Prometheus to be chained to a cliff face to have his liver eaten by a vulture. Since Prometheus is an immortal, his liver would grow back, so it's constantly getting eaten. (he was later rescued by Herakles)

To me, this is reminiscent of the story of Eden, where the Serpent indirectly gave knowledge to mankind and made them like gods. And the Serpent has often been believed to be Satan, so... in my mind Prometheus and Lucifer("Bringer of Light") are the same beings. The legends are different, but the concept is the same: a being took pity on a miserable people and gave them what was originally the gods' (God's) alone, and was punished.

Lucifer STOLE fire...

Wouldnt that be immoral?

But it seems that stealing the fire was a walk in the park compared to what the other gods were doing...like creating men misserable and not wanting to give them fire...and some liver eating in between.

But you know it might just be...that the other beings on the earth (apart from adam an eve) were created by this 'other god'.

If abel's offering involved a burnt offering of an animal...then they already had fire. Maybe the other misserable beings didnt and lucifer had to go and steal it for them.

Just a thought.

 

[J-Train]

Well it could be that because Lucifer had one of the highest position in heaven, that of leading God’s worship and fail in his rebellion and was cast out of heavens and God gave that position to humanity he hates us with passion, actually I think that hell is worst than they say, Satan is it ruler and there is an eternal separation from God for those that are sent there after judgement, that is worst than been burned for ever and ever, there is no way to leave hell and cross to heaven after the Judgement, to know this is worst than been burned.

Im not really to worried about an eternal seperation from God. I hate the idea of God and that is all that he is...an idea. And yes i think the same way about satan.If a super being really did create us then we were left and forgotten and thought of as a failure because there is too much ****** up **** in this world.

 

[Riverwolf]

Lucifer STOLE fire...

Wouldnt that be immoral?

But it seems that stealing the fire was a walk in the park compared to what the other gods were doing...like creating men misserable and not wanting to give them fire...and some liver eating in between.

But you know it might just be...that the other beings on the earth (apart from adam an eve) were created by this 'other god'.

If abel's offering involved a burnt offering of an animal...then they already had fire. Maybe the other misserable beings didnt and lucifer had to go and steal it for them.

Just a thought.

It's just a personal belief about the stories, in my ongoing attempt to bring all mythologies together. ^_^

Besides, who said the pre-fire humans were suffering? It's possible that they were doing just fine, as Adam and Eve were just fine, and Lucifer/Prometheus saw otherwise.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

Friend J-Train,



It is the same as it is HERE-NOW.

Heaven too can be realised HERE-NOW and only after that one can understand what they are in relation to each other.
Love & rgds

Exactly. Zen is spot on Heaven and hell are states in which your mind immerses itself in.