Are the 10 Commandments as a whole valid today?

[URAVIP2ME]

And when we have compassion for our fellow man, isn't it self sacrificing? Not just feeling sorry for some poor sap, but getting off our rear end and helping him.

Yes, Jesus' illustration about the neighborly good Samaritan shows helping even strangers in distress.
To widen out, or broaden out, in showing love even for those we do Not know.
Jesus was teaching we should help on a one-on-one basis.
Jesus never instructed the building of buildings or the making of ' rice' Christians.
So, besides helping one-on-one, we are to do the same spiritual work as Jesus did and instructed to do - Luke 4:43; Matthew 24:14; Matthew 28:18-20; Acts of the Apostles 1:8

 

[metis]

Yes, agree with with three simple steps listed ^above^. - 2 Peter 3:9
Please keep in mind John 3:13 for according to Jesus' teachings No one had ascended to heaven.
That would include King David, and John the Baptizer - Acts of the Apostles 2:34; Matthew 11:11
So, in other words, ALL who died before Jesus' died were offered an earthly hope. Heaven for those of Luke 22:28-30
God's promise to father Abraham was an earthly promise - Genesis 12:3; Genesis 22:18
All families of Earth will be blessed. All nations of Earth will be blessed. Blessed through Christ with the benefit of healing for earth's nations - Revelation 22:2
That healing means perfect health on Earth and No more death on Earth ever again - 1 Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8; Isaiah 33:24
Romans 6:7 is quite plain. One's death frees or acquits a person. So, in that sense God forgives. Forgives through Christ.
Being freed or acquitted from sin does Not automatically make a person as innocent, but as a governor can pardon a person so the crime charges do Not stick, Jesus can pardon a person so the sin charges do Not stick. When freed or acquitted from a crime/sin then one can Not be tried again. That would be double jeopardy.
Since we can Not resurrect oneself or another, then we need someone who can do that for us. Jesus as Messiah can and will resurrect the dead - Revelation 1:18
So, the Tanakh covers those who died before Jesus died - John 3:13
The unforgivable sin is in connection to Christ - Matthew 12:32; Hebrews 6:4-6

I'm well aware of Christian teachings as I taught Christian theology for 14 years, but thanks anyhow for the above reminders.

 

[metis]

The original 10 commandments (the ones on the broken tablets) contained a higher law . They were broken because that group of people were not able to hold up the higher law, so they had to be given the lower law. The higher order of the 10 commandments was shared in the sermon on the mount...

May I ask where you got that from?

 

[idea]

May I ask where you got that from?

link, link

 

[JesusBeliever]

Is foregivenss required for those who wilfully practice malicious sins with No remorse or No repentance - Psalms 139:21-22; Hebrews 10:26-28; Hebrews 10:29-31

Jesus said:

Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; Matthew 5:43-44

It's admittedly very hard to do, but it's not impossible. I never thought the day would come that I'd feel the need to bless those who literally curse me but I did and the affect was immediate. Moving me from a place of fear in my own heart to a place of love. We have to find the courage to believe that Love never fails. It suffers long yes, but it will not fail! I believe this with all my heart, I truly do:

2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

Brother Paul said:

This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. 16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me FIRST Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. 1 Timothy 1:15-16

 

[metis]

link, link

Well, it's very hard to take their view seriously or even logically. Nor does it add up scripturally, so it would be all but impossible for them to supposedly know this from scripture. If you doubt me on this, please try and do so.

Secondly, Jesus never provides a list of the Decalogue in his own words or quotes them, nor does he cover them all in the Sermon On the Mount.

Finally, let me recommend you check other sources because the links you provide make no theological, historical, or logical sense whatsoever, especially since the early church used the Torah and considered it worthwhile to teach from.

 

[JesusBeliever]

link, link

Hi there Idea,
Are you aware that the Joseph Smith Translation (JST) of the Bible is different to other translations?
For example, from the first link you gave the JST says:

Exodus 34:1 And the Lord said unto Moses, Hew thee two other tables of stone, like unto the first, and I will write upon them also, the words of the law, according as they were written at the first on the tables which thou brakest; but it shall not be according to the first, for I will take away the priesthood out of their midst; therefore my holy order, and the ordinances thereof, shall not go before them; for my presence shall not go up in their midst, lest I destroy them.

I did a Verse Comparison of over 30 Bibles at biblestudytools.com and not one of them contained the sentence that I have bolded and underlined above.
I can't express just how concerning this is to see. Please investigate this further in prayer.
Sincerest regards

 

[life.period]

The answer is no (Ephesians 2: 14-16), but 9 of the 10 were carried over into the New Testament.

False

If you break commandant is sinful
Matthew 5:19 ►
Parallel Verses
New International Version
Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven


Paul is called least in heaven

Muslims called great

 

[CG Didymus]

False

If you break commandant is sinful
Matthew 5:19 ►
Parallel Verses
New International Version
Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven


Paul is called least in heaven

Muslims called great

Every major religion has so many "commands" that are essentially the same. The Jewish "Ten Commandments" are pretty basic, but does any religion, other than strict Law believing Jews, try to follow all the commands in Jewish Scripture? If not, aren't we all on the "least" side? Every day I set aside one of the "least" of the commands when I get dressed in mixed fabrics. I know, I know, I'm a horrible person.

 

[metis]

Just as a point of clarification, there are 613 Commandments as found in Torah, and the mixed fabrics to be avoided under the Law are only wool and linen.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

The answer is no (Ephesians 2: 14-16), but 9 of the 10 were carried over into the New Testament.

Was there ever a point that they were?

 

[CG Didymus]

Just as a point of clarification, there are 613 Commandments as found in Torah, and the mixed fabrics to be avoided under the Law are only wool and linen.

Oh, good. Wait, I'm not under the Law anyway. Maybe the Fashion Police, I'll have to check what their rules say.

But anyway, back to the Ten Commandments. Christians of course have no desire to follow all the Laws. The ten written in stone by God seem like they'd be hard to ignore, and they don't.... except the Sabbath one. The few Christians that do try and keep it, I wonder how many of the Sabbath Laws they follow? I get the feeling they don't keep very many. So again, God's Book, God's Laws, Christians say they believe it is God's Word, yet they find loopholes around what they don't like? And besides following the Ten, how many Christians know and follow the commands Jesus gave?

 

[metis]

Oh, good. Wait, I'm not under the Law anyway. Maybe the Fashion Police, I'll have to check what their rules say.

But anyway, back to the Ten Commandments. Christians of course have no desire to follow all the Laws. The ten written in stone by God seem like they'd be hard to ignore, and they don't.... except the Sabbath one. The few Christians that do try and keep it, I wonder how many of the Sabbath Laws they follow? I get the feeling they don't keep very many. So again, God's Book, God's Laws, Christians say they believe it is God's Word, yet they find loopholes around what they don't like? And besides following the Ten, how many Christians know and follow the commands Jesus gave?

Technically, non-Jews are not under any of the Law, including the Decalogue, but if they choose to observe any of them, that's their choice. What apparently drives both you and I nuts, by all indications, is the "picking & choosing". An example I've run across a lot, since I was brought up in a fundamentalist Protestant church, is that so many of these churches demand that families must tithe, which is indeed one of the 613 Commandments, so why don't they demand that the other 612 be followed as well? Seems to smack of "self-serving" doesn't it.

 

[JesusBeliever]

Technically, non-Jews are not under any of the Law, including the Decalogue, but if they choose to observe any of them, that's their choice. What apparently drives both you and I nuts, by all indications, is the "picking & choosing". An example I've run across a lot, since I was brought up in a fundamentalist Protestant church, is that so many of these churches demand that families must tithe, which is indeed one of the 613 Commandments, so why don't they demand that the other 612 be followed as well? Seems to smack of "self-serving" doesn't it.

May I just jump in and say I totally agree. I've been looking into the Feast of Pentecost/Weeks a lot lately which seems to be where a lot of teachings in the NT originate from, including Sunday worship, the Law being written on the heart etc. And what stood out to me was the Freewill offering:

"And thou shalt keep the feast of weeks unto the LORD thy God with a tribute of a freewill offering of thine hand, which thou shalt give unto the LORD thy God, according as the LORD thy God hath blessed thee: And thou shalt rejoice before the LORD thy God, thou, and thy son, and thy daughter, and thy manservant, and thy maidservant, and the Levite that is within thy gates, and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, that are among you, in the place which the LORD thy God hath chosen to place his name there." Deuteronomy 16:10-11

Compare this to the NT example which I have yet to see any modern church follow:

"And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness. And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all. Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need." Acts 4:31-35

How amazingly powerful would it be if Christian Churches today followed the example of the early disciples.

 

[CG Didymus]

Technically, non-Jews are not under any of the Law, including the Decalogue, but if they choose to observe any of them, that's their choice. What apparently drives both you and I nuts, by all indications, is the "picking & choosing". An example I've run across a lot, since I was brought up in a fundamentalist Protestant church, is that so many of these churches demand that families must tithe, which is indeed one of the 613 Commandments, so why don't they demand that the other 612 be followed as well? Seems to smack of "self-serving" doesn't it.

The dilemma for many Christians is getting "saved" by saying they "believe." For a lot of them, too many, it takes very little action. They'll probably get baptized. They'll probably go to Church and to Bible studies, but how far will they go repenting? If they do, they'll need to know what is considered sin. Fortunately for the Christian most of the things considered sinful are restated in the NT... Don' lie. Don't steal. Don't murder, oh no, Jesus makes it even tougher... Don't even get angry. Another problem, my personal favorite, Don't lust or you're committing adultery. What was Jesus thinking? The Law was hard enough before.

So what's strange to me is that you're not saved by works, but you are expected to do the good works and to repent from sinful behavior? That sounds like works to me. So how is that different than a Jew who believes in God, serves his God, and does his best to follow the commands of God? It's still his belief in God, or his faith, that causes him to do the things his God wants him to. But when it comes to what a Christian should do, how many non-Jews would have believed in Jesus if all those laws were part of the deal? Believe on Jesus, get baptized, repent of your sins and follow the whole law? Much better what Paul did. The Law? It doesn't save you, so don't worry about it. The Sabbath? No biggy. Sunday's fine. Any day is fine. Just don't lie, cheat or steal... and when they pass the hat... dig deep into your pockets and give until it hurts. That is the fulfillment of the Law and the prophets.

 

[JesusBeliever]

The dilemma for many Christians is getting "saved" by saying they "believe." For a lot of them, too many, it takes very little action. They'll probably get baptized. They'll probably go to Church and to Bible studies, but how far will they go repenting? If they do, they'll need to know what is considered sin. Fortunately for the Christian most of the things considered sinful are restated in the NT... Don' lie. Don't steal. Don't murder, oh no, Jesus makes it even tougher... Don't even get angry. Another problem, my personal favorite, Don't lust or you're committing adultery. What was Jesus thinking? The Law was hard enough before.

So what's strange to me is that you're not saved by works, but you are expected to do the good works and to repent from sinful behavior? That sounds like works to me. So how is that different than a Jew who believes in God, serves his God, and does his best to follow the commands of God? It's still his belief in God, or his faith, that causes him to do the things his God wants him to. But when it comes to what a Christian should do, how many non-Jews would have believed in Jesus if all those laws were part of the deal? Believe on Jesus, get baptized, repent of your sins and follow the whole law? Much better what Paul did. The Law? It doesn't save you, so don't worry about it. The Sabbath? No biggy. Sunday's fine. Any day is fine. Just don't lie, cheat or steal... and when they pass the hat... dig deep into your pockets and give until it hurts. That is the fulfillment of the Law and the prophets.

Didymus, Your summary of Paul's letters made me chuckle. I've got a ghastly flu at the moment and a hearty laugh felt like just what the good doctor ordered. I had actually caught a glimpse of your post earlier but didn't have time to stop and read the whole thing. So when I had a chance I came looking for it again. What caught my eye was how you said:

What was Jesus thinking? The Law was hard enough before.

And it suddenly occurred to me. Jesus wasn't making it harder at all, but actually trying to make it easier for us. I get the feeling you already recognise this so forgive me if I'm just catching up.

If no one is saved by the works of the law because by the law is the knowledge of sin, by making the law harder, Jesus was trying to help us to recognise that we were sinners quicker. Coz as He said:

...They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." Mark 2:17

Maybe having the flu at the moment is helping me to appreciate this verse a little more than usual.

 

[CG Didymus]

Didymus, Your summary of Paul's letters made me chuckle. I've got a ghastly flu at the moment and a hearty laugh felt like just what the good doctor ordered. I had actually caught a glimpse of your post earlier but didn't have time to stop and read the whole thing. So when I had a chance I came looking for it again. What caught my eye was how you said:


And it suddenly occurred to me. Jesus wasn't making it harder at all, but actually trying to make it easier for us. I get the feeling you already recognise this so forgive me if I'm just catching up.

If no one is saved by the works of the law because by the law is the knowledge of sin, by making the law harder, Jesus was trying to help us to recognise that we were sinners quicker. Coz as He said:

...They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." Mark 2:17

Maybe having the flu at the moment is helping me to appreciate this verse a little more than usual.

I'm glad I could bring a smile to your face while you"re sick. And I really appreciate everything you and Metis have been saying. Get better soon.

 

[metis]

Maybe having the flu at the moment is helping me to appreciate this verse a little more than usual.

Get well soon, and that's an order!!!

 

[Muffled]

The Laws are Commandments that were given to the Jewish people at Sinai and shortly afterword (all are found in Torah), so there is no such thing mentioned in Torah about "ceremonial Law".

All of the Commandments Jews are expected to observe as best as possible, but no such obligation exists for non-Jews. For gentiles, they can pick and choose which Laws they want to follow to a large extent, although the issues of compassion and justice should be their driving force since God must have given the Law for a reason, and because of the Noachide Laws, they appear to be universal teachings.

Therefore, what Jesus' teaches is very compatible for non-Jews but not for Jews, the latter of which are bound by the entire Law. Matter of fact, Torah states that any supposed prophet who teaches that the entire Law need not be observed is labeled as a "false prophet", and they were not to be treated too kindly. And there is nothing found in Torah that states or implies that a messianic figure could change that.

I believe you are saying when God speaks to Jews He is right but when He speaks to Christians He is wrong.

 

[CG Didymus]

I believe you are saying when God speaks to Jews He is right but when He speaks to Christians He is wrong.

That is such a good point. But, which came first? The so-called OT. Did God write it or man? For a Christian, they have to say, "God" don't they? But then, who wrote the NT? God inspired people? Well let's see? Does it match up with the only "God's Word" they had at the time... the Jewish Scriptures. I can see why, many reasons why, a Jew would not accept the NT as being from God. However, after Christians made the letters from Paul and the others, along with the "gospels" the latest and newest Word of God... kind of like version 2.0 of God's Word, then I can see why Christians believe what they do. The new updates replaced the old version. Like the parable says... You don't put old software into new computers.

So was the old software wrong? No, just old and slow and not very easy to work with. The new software is so user friendly... believe and go. No page after page of useless commands to do. But some people are old school. They're dinosaurs and don't want to change... until the new system proves itself. So are there "bugs" in the new system? Yes, there's a lot of bugs.

So when people checked the OT, and it says not to do something but the new system, the NT, says "yes, do it"? What do you do? Both can't be right? Either the old system of beliefs is right. Or the new system has to show why the old one was "right" for then, but not for now.

Does the new system work? Can 1000 sects and denominations be wrong? Yes, I mean No, it does work... in a way. Especially when you upgrade to version 7.0... the new improved version of Christian beliefs. And they say God is the same yesterday, today and forever? He doesn't even have the same commands from millennium to the next. Sure dump the Laws, but tell me what "commands" do I need to believe and follow as a Christian? Call me when you get it all figured out. Or, better yet, send a pop-up when updates are available. You know, isn't that what the Jews did? They clicked on the updates from God, and read the terms and conditions of Christianity. Hmmm? Jesus is the Messiah, Jesus is God, no more Law, etc, etc? Then, after reading the terms and conditions, they clicked "Don't agree".