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Are We in Need of Salvation?

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Generally speaking, are humans in need of some kind of redemption, salvation, reformation, transformation, etc.? (For short, I'll simply use the word "salvation" to refer to the notion of changing humans for the better.)

If so, what are we in need of salvation from?

How are we saved?

Is it necessary for individuals to do anything in order to obtain salvation? If so, what is that?

Please remember this thread is in a debate section. Thank you!
 

Madhuri

RF Goddess
Staff member
Premium Member
I don't believe that we need to be 'saved'.
I think that the point of life in this existence is to learn and discover, to gradually awaken to our full potential. This is a sort of 'salvation' or transformation from ignorance to knowledge- but we work individually for this goal.
 

Alex_G

Enlightner of the Senses
Generally speaking, are humans in need of some kind of redemption, salvation, reformation, transformation, etc.? (For short, I'll simply use the word "salvation" to refer to the notion of changing humans for the better.)

If so, what are we in need of salvation from?

How are we saved?

Is it necessary for individuals to do anything in order to obtain salvation? If so, what is that?

Please remember this thread is in a debate section. Thank you!

Hm, well in a way yes and no is my answer. From a strictly religious perspective (namely judeo christian) i dont subscribe to these sorts of views regarding original sin, what constitutes the sin, second coming judgement and so forth. I find its a dangerous and warped way of looking at life.


In a more general way i agree with Madhuri, that ones life is the very process of self-discovery and change, which will be different for everyone.

On a societal level, reformations regarding practical concerns such as global warming and the environmental crisis could be considered 'needed'. That we need to change our habits to better protect those things that are important and are getting harmed.

The progress and development of humanity raises many new possibilities in the form of medicine, technology which will no doubt constitute a form of salvation for many people whos lives are saved or made livable. This progress however comes at a cost, and new challenges present themselves all the time of which some 'salvation' may be required eg environmental issues mentioned before.
 

chinu

chinu
Generally speaking, are humans in need of some kind of redemption, salvation, reformation, transformation, etc.? (For short, I'll simply use the word "salvation" to refer to the notion of changing humans for the better.)
Yes, we all are in need of Salvation.
If so, what are we in need of salvation from?
Salvation from impermanent peace and happiness.
How are we saved?
If you really care what I have answered above.:)
Is it necessary for individuals to do anything in order to obtain salvation? If so, what is that?
First step: Acknowledge what I have written above.:)
 

Sir_Loin

Member
Humans, collectively, are silly.
We're basically just a load of "apes" (not that I believe we have common ancestors) that fight for little bits of land on this polluted world.
Why war? What's the point? Just so that we can add to our small, puny little empires?
 

arcanum

Active Member
I've come to reject the concept of original sin, it never sat right with me even as a child, the doctrine is absurd really. The Jews don't have this interpretation from the garden of Eden story, it was basically invented by the fathers of the church. I don't think people need saving either, but I do believe many are in need of transforming. That I can get on board with, spiritual transformation away from an ego driven orientation in order to inherit the kingdom of heaven, which is essentially a state of being rather than a future event.
 

rusra02

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Generally speaking, are humans in need of some kind of redemption, salvation, reformation, transformation, etc.? (For short, I'll simply use the word "salvation" to refer to the notion of changing humans for the better.)

If so, what are we in need of salvation from?

How are we saved?

Is it necessary for individuals to do anything in order to obtain salvation? If so, what is that?

Please remember this thread is in a debate section. Thank you!

Yes, all mankind are in need of salvation, or rescue from sin and death. (Romans 5:12) It is impossible to save ourselves. The true God has provided the means to rescue us from death by providing a ransom for sins. He sent his son as a perfect human to buy back what Adam lost, everlasting life. (John 3:16, Matthew 20:28)
We also need deliverance from the wicked one, Satan, and the wicked system he controls. (Colossians 1:13, Hebrews 2:14,15)
In order to be saved, one must take action.
1. Learn about the true God and his Christ. (John 17:3)
2. Exercise faith in God's provision for salvation. (John 3:18)
3. Change one's life and practices to conform to God's will. (1 Peter 4:1,2)
4. Prove faithful to God (Revelation 2:10)
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Generally speaking, are humans in need of some kind of redemption, salvation, reformation, transformation, etc.? (For short, I'll simply use the word "salvation" to refer to the notion of changing humans for the better.)
I see little value in equating redemption, salvation, and betterment. At the same time, to ask if humanity warrants improvement seems to be asking a rather underwhelming question.
 
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Thana

Lady
Well, Unless you think humans are perfect just the way they are..
Then yes. We are in need of salvation/redemption/reformation/transformation.

Is salvation achievable would be the better question imo.
 

Sultan Of Swing

Well-Known Member
Generally speaking, are humans in need of some kind of redemption, salvation, reformation, transformation, etc.? (For short, I'll simply use the word "salvation" to refer to the notion of changing humans for the better.)

If so, what are we in need of salvation from?

How are we saved?

Is it necessary for individuals to do anything in order to obtain salvation? If so, what is that?

Please remember this thread is in a debate section. Thank you!
"It is a serious thing to live in a society of possible gods and goddesses, to remember that the dullest and most uninteresting person you talk to may one day be a creature which, if you saw it now, you would be strongly tempted to worship." - C.S. Lewis

There is a potential for all of us to share in the divine nature, to achieve theosis. This is a transformative process, indeed those in Christ are transformed from "glory to glory" into God's image (2 Corinthians 3:18).

Do we need to be saved? Yes. What from? The selfishness, greed, moral decay and lack of love that has stained our hearts and minds. Many would call this "original sin". This is a salvation which can transform us into our true selves, through Christ we find out who we are, who we were always meant to be. It isn't some free ticket to a city in the clouds, but promise of a perfect union with our God, with Love divine, within which we find our own being. A process that doesn't happen over night, one that is gradual, painful even, as Lewis more fully describes:

"The command Be ye perfect is not idealistic gas. Nor is it a command to do the impossible. He is going to make us into creatures that can obey that command. He said (in the Bible) that we were "gods" and He is going to make good His words. If we let Him—for we can prevent Him, if we choose—He will make the feeblest and filthiest of us into a god or goddess, dazzling, radiant, immortal creature, pulsating all through with such energy and joy and wisdom and love as we cannot now imagine, a bright stainless mirror which reflects back to God perfectly (though, of course, on a smaller scale) His own boundless power and delight and goodness. The process will be long and in parts very painful; but that is what we are in for. Nothing less. He meant what He said."

By achieving perfect communion with God through Christ's death and resurrection, we will be transformed into our true selves, to what we were intended to be and undo the shackles of meaninglessness, misery and death. St Macarius the Great achieved this in his own life and said he could not imagine experiencing anything else from his soul after death. Perfect communion with God, with divine Love, liberates us and enables us to achieve our true potential, by living our lives as the beings God intended us to be.

(As a side note, Lewis' words should not be confused with Mormon theology that would have us turn into literal, separate gods of our own, but rather in the sense that we will become perfect reflections and images of God, sharing in His divine nature as promised in 2 Peter 1:4. It is the result of achieving perfect communion with Him.)
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Sunstone said:
Generally speaking, are humans in need of some kind of redemption, salvation, reformation, transformation, etc.? (For short, I'll simply use the word "salvation" to refer to the notion of changing humans for the better.)
Dying isn't so bad, but suffering is horrible. Add to that the knowledge that for the infinite future many people will probably have to suffer terribly. Just watching one creature suffer is pretty bad, and most suffering seems pointless to me.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
(As a side note, Lewis' words should not be confused with Mormon theology that would have us turn into literal, separate gods of our own, but rather in the sense that we will become perfect reflections and images of God, sharing in His divine nature as promised in 2 Peter 1:4. It is the result of achieving perfect communion with Him.)
C.S. Lewis' words reflect Mormon theology exactly. You may not wish to admit it, but Lewis unintentionally explained our belief as well as it has ever been explained. He said, "He will make the feeblest and filthiest of us into a god or goddess, dazzling, radiant, immortal creature, pulsating all through with such energy and joy and wisdom and love as we cannot now imagine..." He meant it exactly the way it is stated.
 
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CynthiaCypher

Well-Known Member
Well we are all living on sinking ship (human civilization) that is headed for an iceberg (climate change) and the ship's boiler (the global economy) is threatening to blow and all the lifeboats (religions, Utopian ideologies and philosophies) are just dead weight with no buoyancy and are contributing to the sinking of the ship

So what do you think? Maybe we need to be saved. I don't know but the whole situation looks screwed to me.
 

Sultan Of Swing

Well-Known Member
C.S. Lewis' words reflect Mormon theology exactly. You may not wish to admit it, but Lewis unintentionally explained our belief as well as it has ever been explained. He said, "He will make the feeblest and filthiest of us into a god or goddess, dazzling, radiant, immortal creature, pulsating all through with such energy and joy and wisdom and love as we cannot now imagine..." He meant it exactly the way it is stated.

Would the following excerpts from Lewis be in accord with the Mormon theology of Godhood as well as you say he does? The simple fact he does not capitalise "god" when it comes to us speaks volumes in of itself, and referring to us still as "creatures" says a lot too. If it needs to be confirmed that his own ideas about divinisation are far away from any notion of deification that Mormons might put forward, the following passages would do this.

From Miracles:
"All creatures, from the angel to the atom, are other than God; with an otherness to which there is no parallel: incommensurable. The very words ‘to be’ cannot be applied to Him and to them in exactly the same sense."

And from Mere Christianity:
"Of course we never wanted, and never asked, to be made into the sort of creatures He is going to make us into. But the question is not what we intended ourselves to be, but what He intended us to be when He made us. He is the inventor, we are only the machine. He is the painter, we are only the picture."

"Now that is the first thing to get clear. What God begets is God; just as what man begets is man. What God creates is not God; just as what man makes is no man. That is why men are not Sons of God in the sense that Christ is. They may be like God in certain ways, but they are not things of the same kind. They are more like statues or pictures of God."

Unless you mean Lewis' words, taken out of context, describe the Mormon belief well, even if they do not represent what Lewis actually believed?
 
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Mycroft

Ministry of Serendipity
Well I don't need saving. And certainly not from an alleged divine superbeing who refuses to reveal himself.
 

ametist

Active Member
Yes. The existence is the fragments of a one-being. AS long as there is existence there is salvation and need fr it and the escape from it. The idea that you can be saved means that there is something beyond you ,larger and bigger than you, more capable than you. Untill we learn to share the love and respect among equals and those who are in worse situation than us we need to be saved to feel our humanity and even than there will be people who need to be saved by you. To protect, to save and to be saved are unavoidable acts of that one curteous being.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
No. I have no need of salvation, redemption or forgiveness.

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