Are you a liar?

[2ndpillar]

All men are sinners, and will die, unless they find salvation in Jesus Christ. This is what the scriptures teach.

Since Christ is the only man to have fulfilled the law, he is the only man to demonstrate the righteousness of God.

What you teach is the righteousness of man. This means that, for you, God is not the only Saviour! You believe, instead, a man can save himself.

The Scripture teaches that one is to turn away from wickedness, to righteousness, so that they might live. (Ezekiel 18:27). This is called repentance, an act of turning away from sin to righteousness. You don't have to be sinless to turn from sin and embrace righteousness. If you choose to continue in your sins, well, don't expect to dance through the great tribulation. It doesn't matter what you believe, for the demons also believe, yet they have reason to tremble.

 

[F1fan]

From my perspective,

Which could be mistaken since you are an ordinary and fallible human.

.... anyone who repents and believes is submitting themselves to the authority of God in Christ.

And why do people want to believe this is true? What is the payoff?

I am a repentant sinner who, through faith in Jesus Christ, is no longer under the power of sin and death.

Sounds like you can do no wrong, so how much time do you doubt your decisions and thinking? Are you even mistaken, make mistakes?

Who are you to deny those things Jesus Christ promises by his word and Spirit?

I'm a person who recognizes there is no evidence for any of this being true. I get to make my own decisions and be free of religious dogma.

 

[Redemptionsong]

The Scripture teaches that one is to turn away from wickedness, to righteousness, so that they might live. (Ezekiel 18:27). This is called repentance, an act of turning away from sin to righteousness. You don't have to be sinless to turn from sin and embrace righteousness. If you choose to continue in your sins, well, don't expect to dance through the great tribulation. It doesn't matter what you believe, for the demons also believe, yet they have reason to tremble.

A sinner must turn to the one who is sinless. Who is sinless, except Jesus Christ? How does one access his righteousness except through faith and grace?

You're still working for righteousness under the law. This is man's righteousness, not God's righteousness.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Sounds like you can do no wrong, so how much time do you doubt your decisions and thinking? Are you even mistaken, make mistakes?

I don't doubt Christ, but l'm aware l do make mistakes and that sometimes l go astray.

In the book of Romans, Paul explains about the walk of faith. When first 'born again' we are like babes in Christ, needing the milk of the word, but, as we grow and mature in faith, we are able to take the meat of the word, and understand the deeper truths. The battle that exists for a believer is a battle between the flesh and Spirit, and as a believer walks more assuredly by the Spirit the lusts of the flesh are conquered.

As in the story of Peter walking to Jesus on the water, the message is to keep one's eyes focussed on the Lord, and not to become distracted. If you turn from the Lord, you drown. This is what began to happen to Peter, until he was saved by Jesus.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I don't doubt Christ, but l'm aware l do make mistakes and that sometimes l go astray.

In the book of Romans, Paul explains about the walk of faith. When first 'born again' we are like babes in Christ, needing the milk of the word, but, as we grow and mature in faith, we are able to take the meat of the word, and understand the deeper truths. The battle that exists for a believer is a battle between the flesh and Spirit, and as a believer walks more assuredly by the Spirit the lusts of the flesh are conquered.

As in the story of Peter walking to Jesus on the water, the message is to keep one's eyes focussed on the Lord, and not to become distracted. If you turn from the Lord, you drown. This is what began to happen to Peter, until he was saved by Jesus.

No, the "meat" of the word only appears to be self serving confirmation bias. Why do I say that? Because of the endlessly different interpretations of the Bible. If what you claimed was true then we should see all Christians getting closer and closer to one sect.. Instead we see the opposite.

 

[Elihoenai]

I share a faith in Christ with other 'born again' believers. I therefore belong to an invisible Church, drawn together by the Holy Spirit.

l know that there are teachings of the Roman Catholic Church with which l disagree. For example, l do not regard Mary as the Mother of God.

I do believe, however, that the practice of cutting oneself off from other believers results in a dangerous and isolationist attitude. The body of Christ should be working together for good.

Revelation 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

@Redemptionsong You are still a member of the Roman Catholic Church regardless of whether you apparently disagree with some of their teachings. That's because the Roman Catholic Church has many different faces including all Protestants and Pentecostal Protestants. The Power and Authority of the Roman Catholic Church is Ordained by Elohim/God.

 

[F1fan]

A sinner must turn to the one who is sinless. Who is sinless, except Jesus Christ? How dies one access his righteousness except through faith and grace?

Help us make sense of these claims. Christians say they are expecting Jesus' return, so Jesus isn't here. So who are you turning to except an idea of Jesus, and this implies you are turning to what you think Jesus is, not what Jesus is. So this is open for corruption or error.

Your approach sounds like it can be unreliable since so much relies on what you believe, and as we know, humans believe in all sorts of wrong things.

You're still working for righteousness under the law. This is man's righteousness, not God's righteousness.

Working for righteousness is not BEING righteous. And again, what you believe righteousness to be might be in error. As we see the Old Testament has hundreds of laws that Christians don't obey, and this is because these are deemed irrelevant post Jesus. Yet the New Testament has no similar sets of laws or rules. The comments in the New Testament leave a great deal open for interpretation and how does one Christian resolve the disputes of interpretation and feel certain? The answer is none really can. Judaism has remains remarkably stable for 3000 years while Christianity has splintered into tens of thousands of different sects.

 

[F1fan]

I don't doubt Christ, but l'm aware l do make mistakes and that sometimes l go astray.

And do you doubt yourself?

What does it mean to not "doubt Christ" when what Christ means to you is DEPENDENT on how you believe in the first place?

In the book of Romans, Paul explains about the walk of faith. When first 'born again' we are like babes in Christ, needing the milk of the word, but, as we grow and mature in faith, we are able to take the meat of the word, and understand the deeper truths. The battle that exists for a believer is a battle between the flesh and Spirit, and as a believer walks more assuredly by the Spirit the lusts of the flesh are conquered.

Look at how abstract and vague this is. The level of abstraction is these texts means they have almost no practical use or meaning. Even your comments are on par with this type of abstraction that they are also meaningless.

No person can read this and understand exactly what he means. This illustrates my previous comment that the NT suffers from a lack of any clear laws of conduct and devotion. It leaves everything up to interpretation, and the believer can see it any way they want. It's anything goes.

As in the story of Peter walking to Jesus on the water, the message is to keep one's eyes focussed on the Lord, and not to become distracted. If you turn from the Lord, you drown. This is what began to happen to Peter, until he was saved by Jesus.

What exactly are people focused on when you say "focused on the Lord"? What does that even mean?

And drown by turning from the lord? Another abstraction that isn't objectively true, so means what?

And Peter being saved by Jesus is not how you modern day believers are saved, so relevant how?

 

[2ndpillar]

A sinner must turn to the one who is sinless. Who is sinless, except Jesus Christ? How dies one access his righteousness except through faith and grace?

You're still working for righteousness under the law. This is man's righteousness, not God's righteousness.

You are espousing the false gospel of grace, from the false prophet Paul. Yeshua's message was the message of the "kingdom", whereas righteousness and justice will rule (Isaiah 28:15-18). Your "covenant with death" is the false gospel of grace, which "shall not stand" (Isaiah 28:18). The tare seed, the message of the devil (Mt 13;39-42), and the tares shall be protected until the end of the age, when they will be gathered out and tossed into the fire (Matthew 13:30). We are now at the "end of the age", and you "covenant with death", is on its death bed.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Help us make sense of these claims.

There are three quite separate attacks being made on the integrity of scripture.

Firstly, from yourself and Suduction Zone, both of whom doubt God's existence. To you, prophecy cannot exist because God does not exist.

Then we have 2ndpillar, who denies the canon of scripture, claiming to accept Yeshua whilst rejecting the Gospel of grace.

Finally we have Elihoenai, who accepts the canon of scripture, but believes that the new covenant encompasses the sacrificial rituals of the law. In doing so, he denounces all Catholic and Protestant churches as 'unChristian'. What we seem to be left with is 'a congregation of one'!

Elihoenai, are you also a 'unitarian'? Do you deny that Jesus is 'God with us'?

 

[Redemptionsong]

And do you doubt yourself?

What does it mean to not "doubt Christ" when what Christ means to you is DEPENDENT on how you believe in the first place?


Look at how abstract and vague this is. The level of abstraction is these texts means they have almost no practical use or meaning. Even your comments are on par with this type of abstraction that they are also meaningless.

No person can read this and understand exactly what he means. This illustrates my previous comment that the NT suffers from a lack of any clear laws of conduct and devotion. It leaves everything up to interpretation, and the believer can see it any way they want. It's anything goes.


What exactly are people focused on when you say "focused on the Lord"? What does that even mean?

And drown by turning from the lord? Another abstraction that isn't objectively true, so means what?

And Peter being saved by Jesus is not how you modern day believers are saved, so relevant how?

The principal case that you bring against the scriptures is based on 'reason'. By denying any spiritual existence, you deny the possibility of an omniscient God. By denying an omniscient God, you deny prophecy (including the foreseeing of events).

I'd like to know whether you accept Psalms 22-24 as 'Psalms of David' and what dates (roughly) you would attach to these three Psalms.

 

[Redemptionsong]

You are espousing the false gospel of grace, from the false prophet Paul. Yeshua's message was the message of the "kingdom", whereas righteousness and justice will rule (Isaiah 28:15-18). Your "covenant with death" is the false gospel of grace, which "shall not stand" (Isaiah 28:18). The tare seed, the message of the devil (Mt 13;39-42), and the tares shall be protected until the end of the age, when they will be gathered out and tossed into the fire (Matthew 13:30). We are now at the "end of the age", and you "covenant with death", is on its death bed.

How do you think a person enters the kingdom of God? How, during this lifetime, does a person know that they are safe in 'the ark of Christ'?

 

[Redemptionsong]

Revelation 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

@Redemptionsong You are still a member of the Roman Catholic Church regardless of whether you apparently disagree with some of their teachings. That's because the Roman Catholic Church has many different faces including all Protestants and Pentecostal Protestants. The Power and Authority of the Roman Catholic Church is Ordained by Elohim/God.

Do you believe that Jesus Christ is 'God with us'?

 

[sayak83]

There are three quite separate attacks being made on the integrity of scripture.

Firstly, from yourself and Suduction Zone, both of whom doubt God's existence. To you, prophecy cannot exist because God does not exist.

Then we have 2ndpillar, who denies the canon of scripture, claiming to accept Yeshua whilst rejecting the Gospel of grace.

Finally we have Elihoenai, who accepts the canon of scripture, but believes that the new covenant encompasses the sacrificial rituals of the law. In doing so, he denounces all Catholic and Protestant churches as 'unChristian'. What we seem to be left with is 'a congregation of one'!

Elihoenai, are you also a 'unitarian'? Do you deny that Jesus is 'God with us'?

Another criticism is from my side who believe a separate set of non-Abrahamic scripture/experience as more authentic than the Abrahamic ones.
It would be interesting if you (and others) have specific debate threads addressing each of these varying claims.

 

[Redemptionsong]

Another criticism is from my side who believe a separate set of non-Abrahamic scripture/experience as more authentic than the Abrahamic ones.
It would be interesting if you (and others) have specific debate threads addressing each of these varying claims.

Four threads at once!!

[Only a 'pluralist' would suggest such a thing!]

 

[Redemptionsong]

Another criticism is from my side who believe a separate set of non-Abrahamic scripture/experience as more authentic than the Abrahamic ones.
It would be interesting if you (and others) have specific debate threads addressing each of these varying claims.

I'll continue here as long as possible!

Can you tell me if one God exists in Hinduism, or is this a philosophical position that does not match the reality of everyday worship?

 

[sayak83]

I'll continue here as long as possible!

Can you tell me if one God exists in Hinduism, or is this a philosophical position that does not match the reality of everyday worship?

One absolute divine essence that can manifest in multifarious outwardly different forms according to the inclinations of the worshipper.

 

[2ndpillar]

How do you think a person enters the kingdom of God? How, during this lifetime, does a person know that they are safe in 'the ark of Christ'?

There is no "ark of Christ". There is an ark of the covenant, in which the 10 Commandments are held, and if one touches the arc, they are immediately killed. The "kingdom of God" is a real kingdom which has not come into affect (Daniel 7:13-14), in which the combined sticks of Judah and Ephraim are combined under the leadership of "My servant David", on the land given to Jacob (Ezekiel 37). As for the "kingdom of heaven is at hand" (Matthew 3), that would be the power and spirit of God shown by the healing powers of God, which is absent in today's churches (Matthew 10:7-8). As to partake in the power and the spirit of God, one must seek "righteousness and the kingdom, and all things will then be provided for their needs. (Matthew 6:32-33). You will find righteousness by observing the Commandments found in the ark. You will find death and "destruction" by not heeding those Commandments, and instead following the false prophets of Matthew 7:13-23.

 

[Redemptionsong]

There is no "ark of Christ". There is an ark of the covenant, in which the 10 Commandments are held, and if one touches the arc, they are immediately killed. The "kingdom of God" is a real kingdom which has not come into affect (Daniel 7:13-14), in which the combined sticks of Judah and Ephraim are combined under the leadership of "My servant David", on the land given to Jacob (Ezekiel 37). As for the "kingdom of heaven is at hand" (Matthew 3), that would be the power and spirit of God shown by the healing powers of God, which is absent in today's churches (Matthew 10:7-8). As to partake in the power and the spirit of God, one must seek "righteousness and the kingdom, and all things will then be provided for their needs. (Matthew 6:32-33). You will find righteousness by observing the Commandments found in the ark. You will find death and "destruction" by not heeding those Commandments, and instead following the false prophets of Matthew 7:13-23.

Noah's Ark is a picture of Christ. It's a place where the faithful take refuge.

You keep talking about observing the commandments, but with no evidence that such righteousness can be achieved by anyone!

Psalm 14 and Psalm 53.
'The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.
God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God.
Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.'

 

[2ndpillar]

Noah's Ark is a picture of Christ. It's a place where the faithful take refuge.

You keep talking about observing the commandments, but with no evidence that such righteousness can be achieved by anyone!

Psalm 14 and Psalm 53.
'The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.
God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God.
Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.'

All of your "faithful" will die (Jeremiah 31:30). We are now at the "end of the age", wherefore the angels are coming to "gather out" the tares (Mt 13:30), who have been under protection for the last 2000 years (Mt 13:28-29). These tares, "those who commit lawlessness" will be gathered and thrown into the furnace of fire (Mt 13:41-42). They have accepted the message, tare seed, of the devil (Mt 13:39), under the illusionary gospel of the cross/grace, which says that the law has been nailed to a cross, and now they think they have a covenant with death (Isaiah 28:18), and will not die. According to Isaiah 28:18, "your pact with Sheol shall not stand". Man has written their own laws and think they will prevail over the laws of God. That is highly unlikely. Maybe you should take the first step in becoming perfect, which is to keep the Commandments, sell all of your worldly goods, and give the money to the poor and follow me (Matthew 19:18-21). If you cannot do that, then maybe you don't value the kingdom of heaven, which is like a pearl, and the man sold all he had to purchase that pearl (Matthew 13:46).