Are you an atheist? if so, What is your POV about God?

[`mud]

hey Carlita,
Read it several times,
and I still don't give a crap.
Prayers are just the point,
of a broken arrow,
without a bow to draw from,
or a source to worship.
~
Like I said before........
nuffstuff
'mud

 

[Sonofason]

And so now I have a question to ask of you, and it is based precisely on what you’ve said in your post.

I have lived for 68 years now (going on 69, actually), and all of my life’s experience, everything I know, has convinced me that there is no God. How is it, then, that you cannot unsee what you say you have seen – but you think that I should unsee what I have seen?

If it were God’s desire for me to experience him – do you think it impossible that he could arrange it? Am I more powerful than God – able to fend him off at my own personal will, or is God more powerful than me, but just doesn’t give a rat’s tiny hiney whether I’m “saved” or not? How is that even remotely compatible with the majority of Christian claims about God’s unending love?

I have experienced something which has compelled me to believe that God exists. You claim that you have had no experiences in your life that have compelled you to believe that God exists. I have evidence that God exists. You lack evidence that God exists. But for some reason, you believe that your lack of evidence for the existence of God is somehow evidence for the lack of a God. That is not true. A lack of evidence is not evidence. No matter how hard you try to twist it, a lack of evidence remains a lack of evidence.

You could suggest that because you have never seen life on another planet that life on other planets does not exist. But that is very very poor reasoning. Even if you had visited every single planet in the universe and did not see life existing on any of those planets, you still could not say that life does not exist on other planets, because it is quite possible that you have not looked in the right places, or that you overlooked the life that was there. God had said to us, if you seek Him you shall find Him. And so I believe that you haven't been looking very hard. Actually, I don't believe you've been looking at all.

 

[Sonofason]

The Sun's existence is not dependent on a religious views nor experience. Your comparison is flawed

I do not accept your conclusion. An experience is an experience. You labeling my experience of God as an experience that cannot be compared to any other experience is worthless to me. An experience is an experience. If you have an experience, it is always physical. You cannot recall having any experience that does not involve a physical encounter of some kind or another.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I have experienced something which has compelled me to believe that God exists. You claim that you have had no experiences in your life that have compelled you to believe that God exists. I have evidence that God exists. You lack evidence that God exists. But for some reason, you believe that your lack of evidence for the existence of God is somehow evidence for the lack of a God. That is not true. A lack of evidence is not evidence. No matter how hard you try to twist it, a lack of evidence remains a lack of evidence.

You could suggest that because you have never seen life on another planet that life on other planets does not exist. But that is very very poor reasoning. Even if you had visited every single planet in the universe and did not see life existing on any of those planets, you still could not say that life does not exist on other planets, because it is quite possible that you have not looked in the right places, or that you overlooked the life that was there. God had said to us, if you seek Him you shall find Him. And so I believe that you haven't been looking very hard. Actually, I don't believe you've been looking at all.

You claim to have "evidence that God exists." Okay, fair enough. Just share it with us. It would not do in a court of law to say, "Your Honour, I have proof that the defendant is guilty -- but I'm not going to tell you what it is." Before the court will give a verdict of "guilty," it must see that evidence.

We're no different here. If you have evidence that God exists -- something that we can all potentially observe that could not happen in the absence of God, let us know what it is. Otherwise, we are perfectly within our rights to assume that you don't actually have any.

You are correct that the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. So I have no evidence that there is not a beautifully crafted Ming Chinese teapot dated 1522CE orbiting within the rings of Saturn -- but I think I'm quite within the bounds of reason to suspect (strongly) that there is not.

 

[Willamena]

I have experienced something which has compelled me to believe that God exists. You claim that you have had no experiences in your life that have compelled you to believe that God exists. I have evidence that God exists. You lack evidence that God exists. But for some reason, you believe that your lack of evidence for the existence of God is somehow evidence for the lack of a God. That is not true. A lack of evidence is not evidence. No matter how hard you try to twist it, a lack of evidence remains a lack of evidence.

It is evidence. If someone claims that there is a giant African elephant in the room, but I look around and lack evidence for it, I do indeed have evidence of the elephant's lack.

The significant argument for you is not that there is evidence for God's lack, but that the evidence we each have is of something private, and not public. It cannot be shared.

 

[Sonofason]

You claim to have "evidence that God exists." Okay, fair enough. Just share it with us. It would not do in a court of law to say, "Your Honour, I have proof that the defendant is guilty -- but I'm not going to tell you what it is." Before the court will give a verdict of "guilty," it must see that evidence.

We're no different here. If you have evidence that God exists -- something that we can all potentially observe that could not happen in the absence of God, let us know what it is. Otherwise, we are perfectly within our rights to assume that you don't actually have any.

You are correct that the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. So I have no evidence that there is not a beautifully crafted Ming Chinese teapot dated 1522CE orbiting within the rings of Saturn -- but I think I'm quite within the bounds of reason to suspect (strongly) that there is not.

Sorry, this is not a trial, and I don't care if you believe me. I don't care if you accept the evidence. And I don't care if you never know what the evidence I have is. I am content having it, and I am content that you do not.

 

[Sonofason]

It is evidence. If someone claims that there is a giant African elephant in the room, but I look around and lack evidence for it, I do indeed have evidence of the elephant's lack.

The significant argument for you is not that there is evidence for God's lack, but that the evidence we each have is of something private, and not public. It cannot be shared.

Okay what if the claim is that a big invisible elephant spirit is in the room? Would you have sufficient lack of evidence to be certain that there is no big invisible elephant spirit in the room?

And you are right, the evidence I have for God's existence is not of the sort one can share with others. I wouldn't even try to explain it.

 

[Milton Platt]

To equate God with fairies in your backyard garden betrays a very narrow definition of God, that which little children imagine.

Actually, he was merely trying to help you understand why he does not believe in a god. He was simply trying to make the point that you cannot either prove nor disprove that there are fairies in your garden. The same is true of all of the god claims. But until sufficient evidence is put forth for the existence of either fairies or gods, one should not just assume they exist.

Everybody on the planet has a different definition off what they think a god should be. To assume you have somehow come to the definitive answer to that question seems rather arrogant.

 

[Yerda]

I have experienced something which has compelled me to believe that God exists. You claim that you have had no experiences in your life that have compelled you to believe that God exists. I have evidence that God exists. You lack evidence that God exists. But for some reason, you believe that your lack of evidence for the existence of God is somehow evidence for the lack of a God. That is not true. A lack of evidence is not evidence. No matter how hard you try to twist it, a lack of evidence remains a lack of evidence.

You could suggest that because you have never seen life on another planet that life on other planets does not exist. But that is very very poor reasoning. Even if you had visited every single planet in the universe and did not see life existing on any of those planets, you still could not say that life does not exist on other planets, because it is quite possible that you have not looked in the right places, or that you overlooked the life that was there. God had said to us, if you seek Him you shall find Him. And so I believe that you haven't been looking very hard. Actually, I don't believe you've been looking at all.

I don't disagree with you but is it fair for you to expect others to accept that you have personal evidence while not accepting that they have looked?

 

[Sonofason]

I don't disagree with you but is it fair for you to expect others to accept that you have personal evidence while not accepting that they have looked?

It is by our faith that we are saved. If you're looking for hard proof, then heaven is not for you.

 

[Yerda]

It is by our faith that we are saved. If you're looking for hard proof, then heaven is not for you.

I'm fine with that and fine with your faith and fine with the personal nature of your evidence. Perhaps heaven isn't for me but I wonder about the nature of a God that might keep me out for having an open mind.

 

[Sonofason]

I'm fine with that and fine with your faith and fine with the personal nature of your evidence. Perhaps heaven isn't for me but I wonder about the nature of a God that might keep me out for having an open mind.

God is perfect. We are not perfect. We could be, but we choose not to be. God so loved us that he gave His Son to pay the debt for us that is preventing us from receiving an eternal life with our perfect God. And the only requirement for us is that we believe this is true.

That's not as easy as it sounds. First you have to acknowledge that you're a piece of garbage and need such an advocate as Christ. Then you have to come to terms with who Christ is. How can you believe that Christ has any power over your eternity if you do not believe He is God's Son? And then how can you possibly believe that God has a Son if you can't even admit that there is a god.

It's God's plan of salvation. We don't get the opportunity to decide whether or not it's fair. Believe it or not, it's your call.

 

[Yerda]

God is perfect. We are not perfect. We could be, but we choose not to be. God so loved us that he gave His Son to pay the debt for us that is preventing us from receiving an eternal life with our perfect God. And the only requirement for us is that we believe this is true.

That's not as easy as it sounds. First you have to acknowledge that you're a piece of garbage and need such an advocate as Christ. Then you have to come to terms with who Christ is. How can you believe that Christ has any power over your eternity if you do not believe He is God's Son? And then how can you possibly believe that God has a Son if you can't even admit that there is a god.

It's God's plan of salvation. We don't get the opportunity to decide whether or not it's fair. Believe it or not, it's your call.

There's the catch. I can say that there is a God but I can't believe it without reason. Still, I hope it leads you to what you're after.

 

[Sonofason]

There's the catch. I can say that there is a God but I can't believe it without reason. Still, I hope it leads you to what you're after.

Seek and ye shall find. I think there is plenty of personal testimony by all of us who believe that should be quite compelling to the non-believer to at least begin to seek for the truth. And I believe that if you did seek for the truth, you would find it. However, it is not so easy to convince someone of a God when it is their intent to oppose the existence of God. And of course that is where you are. You will never know God until you seek God, and you will never seek God if you remain intent on disbelief.

 

[Yerda]

Seek and ye shall find. I think there is plenty of personal testimony by all of us who believe that should be quite compelling to the non-believer to at least begin to seek for the truth. And I believe that if you did seek for the truth, you would find it. However, it is not so easy to convince someone of a God when it is their intent to oppose the existence of God. And of course that is where you are. You will never know God until you seek God, and you will never seek God if you remain intent on disbelief.

The personal testimony of people who believe is what keeps me interested.

I'm not intent on disbelief. I'm quite open to the idea. It just hasn't turned out to be one that fits with my experience.

 

[McBell]

No matter how hard you try to twist it, a lack of evidence remains a lack of evidence.

Not true.
Lack of evidence is evidence.
It is just not proof.

You do know the difference between evidence and proof, right?

Actually, I don't believe you've been looking at all.

based on what, lack of evidence?

 

[McBell]

You cannot recall having any experience that does not involve a physical encounter of some kind or another.

I disagree.
Why?
Dreams.

 

[McBell]

We don't get the opportunity to decide whether or not it's fair.

Except that we do.

Believe it or not, it's your call.

agreed.

 

[Sonofason]

The personal testimony of people who believe is what keeps me interested.

I'm not intent on disbelief. I'm quite open to the idea. It just hasn't turned out to be one that fits with my experience.

Have you read the Bible? And if you do read it, are you interested in the testimony, or are you looking to discredit the book?

Have you ever tried defending faith in God? Has God ever seen you make an attempt to understand Him?

 

[Sonofason]

Except that we do.


agreed.

Okay then...it looks like you're all set to go.