Are You Born Again

[joeboonda]

There is more proof for those texts and their authors than any writings of antiquity. The evidence is overwhelminly in favor of the authenticity of those texts and anyone who would examine this evidence without bias (and many great scholars have set out WITH bias to disprove them only to accept Christ as Saviour), would see they are the gospel truth. Jesus Christ is King of Kings and Lord of Lords, my friend, and will freely save anyone who calls upon Him. I surely am not trusting in my goodness, which is as filthy rags before a Holy God, I place my trust in Jesus, that He died, was buried, and rose again, and paid for all the sins of all the world once and for all, that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life. It's Jesus or Hell, He said no man comes to the Father but by me. And that is the Gospel truth, friend, and nothing but the truth.

 

[PureX]

24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
(King James Bible, Luke)
16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
(King James Bible, Mark)
16:19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
16:20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.
28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
(King James Bible, Mathew)


Apparently it WAS created by Jesus.

Jesus didn't write a single one of those words. They were written by the people who created a religion in his name, after Jesus was gone. What you are reading is what they believed Jesus to have said. But being fallible men, their beliefs are prone to ignorance, exaggeration, fantasy, and personal bias. It's irrational and idolatrous to take the words of religious followers as though they were an absolute truth spoken by God, Himself (IMO).

 

[PureX]

There is more proof for those texts ... And that is the Gospel truth, friend, and nothing but the truth.

*smile*

That all depends on what you are willing to accept as "proof".

 

[Ulver]

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see = eido {i'-do}(to percieve,senses,to experience,to know) the kingdom of God.

Jhn 3:5 — Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

The key word is here is again or greek word , anothen {an'-o-then}
= from above, born from above,from a higher place

Jesus is distinguishing the difference of natural birth into this world and spiritual birth into the kingdom of God

And what if one believed it right to reject the Gospel of John?

 

[joeboonda]

Jesus didn't write a single one of those words. They were written by the people who created a religion in his name, after Jesus was gone. What you are reading is what they believed Jesus to have said. But being fallible men, their beliefs are prone to ignorance, exaggeration, fantasy, and personal bias. It's irrational and idolatrous to take the words of religious followers as though they were an absolute truth spoken by God, Himself (IMO).

No, they wrote what He SAID, they were THERE, they were 'eye-witnesses to His majesty,' and did not write 'cunningly devised fables". They were inspired by the Holy Spirit of Almighty God, and every word of the Bible is true and trustworthy.

 

[Ulver]

No, they wrote what He SAID, they were THERE, they were 'eye-witnesses to His majesty,' and did not write 'cunningly devised fables". They were inspired by the Holy Spirit of Almighty God, and every word of the Bible is true and trustworthy.

By that logic we should all become mormon.

 

[PureX]

No, they wrote what He SAID, they were THERE, they were 'eye-witnesses to His majesty,' and did not write 'cunningly devised fables". They were inspired by the Holy Spirit of Almighty God, and every word of the Bible is true and trustworthy.

That's just speculation. Most bible scholars guess that the gospels were written between 60 and 200 years after the death of Jesus. So even if any of the writers were eye-witnesses, which is not all that likely, they will have had 60 some years to distort the event in their memories. I'm not accusing anyone of lying, it's just that if you ask three witnesses to an auto accident 20 minutes after it occurred, what happened, you'll get three somewhat different descriptions of the event. If you asked them again 20 years later, well ... , you get the idea.

Also, I don't know if you are aware of this, but most bible scholars believe that Matthew, Mark, and Luke's gospels are all copies made at different times and places from a common single text that they refer to as the "Q" document. A "Q" document has never been found, but because the three texts we have share so many identical words and phrases, and because this would be virtually impossible without some form of mutual source material, most scholars believe that it did exist. Unfortunately, no one knows who wrote it if it did exist, and so we don't really have any idea if the existing gospels, copied from it, are accurate or not.

My best guess would be that taken in total, the story of Jesus probably has some truth to it, some exaggeration, and some outright fabrication. I say this just because that's the most likely scenario given human nature and the natural obscurity and distortion that comes with human beings endeavoring to decipher the mysteries of history.

 

[joeboonda]

Yes, I have heard of the Q manuscript, my belief and that of most Biblical scholars is that the Bible is trustworthy, that Christ indeed was crucified, buried, and rose from the dead, the evidence of which seems indisputable to me. I respect others beliefs on the whole thing, but I believe Jesus, and that He said He must suffer, die, and rise again, to fulfill scripture, and I believe He did so, and that if we trust in Him, that His death paid for our sins, we are saved to the uttermost, not by our works of righteousness, but by what He did for us. That is just my belief from my research and experience. I just put my trust in Christ, and ask Him to have mercy on me, a sinner, and pray that He help me, with the power of the Holy Spirit, to grow in grace, to become and do what He would have me to do, to spread the good news that we may all be saved by trusting in Him for salvation. Coming to Him just as we are, simply turning from our sin of unbelief to belief in Him to save us, and then allowing Him to work in us to help us grow in grace from babes in Christ to mature Christians, not perfect, yet, but justified by Him, and as we yield to Him, we will produce fruit, bringing people to the saving knowledge of our Saviour, laying up treasure in Heaven.

 

[sojourner]

First of all, Mark does not utilize the Q document. Matthew and Luke both make use of Q, as well as material from Mark.

Second, the canonical gospels were written between ca. 66 -- 100 c.e. The authorship cannot be proven to have been that of apostles of Jesus, but were possibly eyewitnesses, especially in the case of the synoptics.

Third, we would be amazed at the accuracy of orally-transmitted information in a society that is built upon oral transmission.

Fourth, the gospel stories were obviously told from the individual authors' differing points of view.

While the Bible can (and should) have a place in helping us to determine doctrine and theology surrounding salvation, the Tradition should also have a place, because God reveals God's self to us, not only through scripture, but also through the Body of Christ.

 

[athanasius]

when People ask me if I have ever been born again I always respond. Yes I have been born again the bible way, I have been baptised. When people ask me if I ever accepted Jesus Christ as personal Lord and saviour I always say Amen. Yes I have. Then I ask them....."Have you accepted Mary as your personal spiritual mother"?

 

[MaddLlama]

Yes, I have heard of the Q manuscript, my belief and that of most Biblical scholars is that the Bible is trustworthy, that Christ indeed was crucified, buried, and rose from the dead, the evidence of which seems indisputable to me. I respect others beliefs on the whole thing, but I believe Jesus, and that He said He must suffer, die, and rise again, to fulfill scripture, and I believe He did so, and that if we trust in Him, that His death paid for our sins, we are saved to the uttermost, not by our works of righteousness, but by what He did for us. That is just my belief from my research and experience. I just put my trust in Christ, and ask Him to have mercy on me, a sinner, and pray that He help me, with the power of the Holy Spirit, to grow in grace, to become and do what He would have me to do, to spread the good news that we may all be saved by trusting in Him for salvation. Coming to Him just as we are, simply turning from our sin of unbelief to belief in Him to save us, and then allowing Him to work in us to help us grow in grace from babes in Christ to mature Christians, not perfect, yet, but justified by Him, and as we yield to Him, we will produce fruit, bringing people to the saving knowledge of our Saviour, laying up treasure in Heaven.

Yes, but that doesn't counter the scholarly accepted argument that the gospels were not written by thier namesakes. This is not a controversial idea, but one that most biblical scholars believe to be true. Do you have any information that might suggest otherwise?

And, just for the record, while your statements on your faith are inspiring to other Christians, they don't really serve anything at all to an argument in a debate (save for the fact that they make you sound so pious I'm not all that sure you are sincere).

 

[Super Universe]

As so many claim to be Christians or theists,has it basically come down to what people feel like classifying themselves as and not based on what Jesus said was the qualifier
There is several hundred groups of professing Christians in our world today.
Christian, means Christ follower,what is it that Jesus referred to when He said,
" You Must Be Born Again" this sounds conditional to me!!

What Jesus meant by being "born again" is that we must be born into the next higher level when our human body dies.

No one goes from a human on the earth directly to heaven except Christ. The rest of us still have a very long ways to go.

 

[roli]

What Jesus meant by being "born again" is that we must be born into the next higher level when our human body dies.

No one goes from a human on the earth directly to heaven except Christ. The rest of us still have a very long ways to go.

My friend, if as a christian you really knew the access to God we have through Jesus,you would be very amazed.

You must read the context of John 3 to understand the meaning or point Jesus was making ,
He is consistently referring to being born again (Greeek word for above means from above) ,spiritually do your own word search on the word spirit ,holy spirit ,holy ghost and you will see how the only way one can communicate with or be in relationship with God, or get to heaven is through and by the Holy Spirit

Remember God is spirit
1Cr 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Jhn 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

 

[Random]

For me, what Jesus meant by "born again" was that man must be emancipated from teachers, parents, lovers and friends in order to come fully into life and be reborn of the Spirit. He must free himself from his own conditioned nature in order to connect with the uncreated part of who he is, forget everything he thinks he knows and unlearn what he does know to establish an unfettered relationship with the God within and without. A free spirit stands alone, even in company. Whatever is born of a woman must decay and die, but being reborn in Christ makes one eternal and having everlasting life.

 

[cardero]

For me, what Jesus meant by "born again" was that man must be emancipated from teachers, parents, lovers and friends in order to come fully into life and be reborn of the Spirit. He must free himself from his own conditioned nature in order to connect with the uncreated part of who he is, forget everything he thinks he knows and unlearn what he does know to establish an unfettered relationship with the God within and without. A free spirit stands alone, even in company. Whatever is born of a woman must decay and die, but being reborn in Christ makes one eternal and having everlasting life.

Sort of like getting out from under this world (possibly physically as well as materialistic), am I correct?

 

[Random]

Sort of like getting out from under this world (possibly physically as well as materialistic), am I correct?

Sort of like, yeah.

 

[roli]

For me, what Jesus meant by "born again" was that man must be emancipated from teachers, parents, lovers and friends in order to come fully into life and be reborn of the Spirit. He must free himself from his own conditioned nature in order to connect with the uncreated part of who he is, forget everything he thinks he knows and unlearn what he does know to establish an unfettered relationship with the God within and without. A free spirit stands alone, even in company. Whatever is born of a woman must decay and die, but being reborn in Christ makes one eternal and having everlasting life.

Well I think your saying it in your own words ,but it sounds close, read John 3.
unless one is born again, again means = from above
It's not really about what the believer does as much as it is a spiritual conversion done outside the human effort,brought about by faith

 

[roli]

Out of interest, what is Jesus recorded as saying?

Jesus said Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Jhn 3:5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Jhn 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Among many other conditional things such as
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed [the righteousness] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Mat 19:23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven

 

[roli]

And what if one believed it right to reject the Gospel of John?

According to scripture and to answer your question :
Jhn 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
Jhn 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.


Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


Jhn 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
Mat 10:40 He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
Jhn 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Jhn 3:18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[roli]

I'm all to familiar with this. I believe Luther called it "dung covered in snow".
Humans are the dung and the snow is God's Grace covering you righteous.

In Catholic theology you aren't only covered with snow, but you truly become snow. God will not be fooled into thinking that a pile of dung (untransformed human) is really a pile of snow (truly transformed).

Ezek: 33:12

12 "Therefore, son of man, say to your countrymen, 'The righteousness of the righteous man will not save him when he disobeys, and the wickedness of the wicked man will not cause him to fall when he turns from it. The righteous man, if he sins, will not be allowed to live because of his former righteousness.' 13 If I tell the righteous man that he will surely live, but then he trusts in his righteousness and does evil, none of the righteous things he has done will be remembered; he will die for the evil he has done. 14 And if I say to the wicked man, 'You will surely die,' but he then turns away from his sin and does what is just and right- 15 if he gives back what he took in pledge for a loan, returns what he has stolen, follows the decrees that give life, and does no evil, he will surely live; he will not die. 16 None of the sins he has committed will be remembered against him. He has done what is just and right; he will surely live.

The Lord clearly teaches us in these verses that a righteous man can turn away from his righteousness and commit iniquity. He was righteous (there is nothing about having phony righteousness), but he fell away and chose unrighteousness. When he does, his prior good deeds shall be forgotten, and he shall die.

Sounds to me like God is looking for real transformations.

Well said!!!