Are you Certain There is no God?

[Trailblazer]

Jesus promised to return to the apostle Peter because he said about John if I want him to live until I come what is that to you?

We went over this before on the other thread. When Jesus said He will come again, He meant that His Spirit would come again in the person who would be the Comforter.

Let's look at John 14:19 and John 14:28 in the context of John 14. Jesus is saying that the world would see Him no more, but before that on John 14:18, Jesus said that He would not leave you comfortless, which is congruent with all the other verses in John 14, 15 and 16 wherein Jesus said that he would send the Comforter from the Father.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.

30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

 

[Trailblazer]

Jesus came once as our redeemer from sin and the next time He comes will be as our conquering king.

Unless Jesus lied or the Bible is in error, Jesus is not coming back to earth again to rule as a conquering king.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

These two verses in John 18 completely negate that Jesus is the King of this world or that Jesus will ever come to this world to rule it, and they fit perfectly together with John 17:4 and John 17:11. Jesus came into this world to bear witness unto the truth about God. He did that so there is no more reason for Jesus to come back to this world again. That is why Jesus said “I am no more in the world.”

 

[Trailblazer]

From my understanding he failed at most of the messianic prophecies and some that he fulfilled appeared to have been written into the story after the fact.

Jesus failed to fulfill those messianic age prophecies because He was never slated by God to fulfill them, since Jesus did not live in the messianic age. The way Christians try to get around this is to say that Jesus will fulfill those prophecies at His second coming, but unless the Bible is in error, there will be no second coming of the same man Jesus. Thus far, no Christian has ever been able to explain the following verses, in light of their belief that Jesus is returning to earth to rule.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

I always like to ask them to be brought up one at a time. The vast majority of them are merely examples of quote mining and a slight resemblance to an event in Jesus's life. Hardly what I would call a "fulfilled prophecy".

The Bible prophecies can be made to mean whatever people want to believe. It's all a matter of interpretation. Of course, that applies to the entire Bible. Christians like to say "the Bible says" but it does not say anything except what they interpret it to mean. The Bible does not interpret itself.

The obvious logical reason why there are so many sects of Christianity is because Christians do not all interpret the Bible the same way. So which one of them is correct in their interpretation? They all believe that they are correct, but they cannot all be correct, since their interpretations contradict each other. It if funny to watch but sad to see that Christians do not even realize what I am saying, although I have explained it over and over again.

 

[Trailblazer]

I envision the Messiah ruling the world as a family member, a father figure.

But logistically, how would that unfold? How would one man rule the entire world and all its peoples?

 

[Skywalker]

We went over this before on the other thread. When Jesus said He will come again, He meant that His Spirit would come again in the person who would be the Comforter.

Let's look at John 14:19 and John 14:28 in the context of John 14. Jesus is saying that the world would see Him no more, but before that on John 14:18, Jesus said that He would not leave you comfortless, which is congruent with all the other verses in John 14, 15 and 16 wherein Jesus said that he would send the Comforter from the Father.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.

30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

I don't believe that Jesus reincarnated into another body. He ressurected in the body he had to prove his authority and to prove life after death.

 

[Skywalker]

Unless Jesus lied or the Bible is in error, Jesus is not coming back to earth again to rule as a conquering king.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

These two verses in John 18 completely negate that Jesus is the King of this world or that Jesus will ever come to this world to rule it, and they fit perfectly together with John 17:4 and John 17:11. Jesus came into this world to bear witness unto the truth about God. He did that so there is no more reason for Jesus to come back to this world again. That is why Jesus said “I am no more in the world.”

The book of Revelation describes the Antichrist as the crowned and conquering child. The Antichrist copies Jesus.

 

[Skywalker]

But logistically, how would that unfold? How would one man rule the entire world and all its peoples?

Before Jesus returns there will be a one world government. Jesus will rule the world in the same way. I also believe that some people will confuse the Antichrist for Jesus because they too are waiting for a Messiah.

 

[Skywalker]

What about Pagan religions?

Don't pagan religions depict God as energy and all beliefs being one?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The book of Revelation describes the Antichrist as the crowned and conquering child. The Antichrist copies Jesus.

The Antichrist was Baha'u'llah's half Brother. What a battle it was.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Before Jesus returns there will be a one world government. Jesus will rule the world in the same way.

It is part of the teachings given after mankind rejected the Most Great Peace.

The one World Government will be based on the principles given by God for this age. All the while the Spiritual rule has its own Administrative Systems in place. They will work side by side for quite some time.

Regards Tony

 

[Skywalker]

The Antichrist was Baha'u'llah's half Brother. What a battle it was.

Regards Tony

How could the battle of Armageddon have happened in the 1800s? There was no seven year peace treaty with Israel yet.

 

[Skywalker]

It is part of the teachings given after mankind rejected the Most Great Peace.

The one World Government will be based on the principles given by God for this age. All the while the Spiritual rule has its own Administrative Systems in place. They will work side by side for quite some time.

Regards Tony

Do you think that there will be a satanic one world government? The first thing you mentioned sounds like the Bible verse about God sending a strong delusion. I think that when the Messiah rules he will teach people how to live, like he did in Israel 2000 years ago.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Jesus failed to fulfill those messianic age prophecies because He was never slated by God to fulfill them, since Jesus did not live in the messianic age. The way Christians try to get around this is to say that Jesus will fulfill those prophecies at His second coming, but unless the Bible is in error, there will be no second coming of the same man Jesus. Thus far, no Christian has ever been able to explain the following verses, in light of their belief that Jesus is returning to earth to rule.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

The Bible prophecies can be made to mean whatever people want to believe. It's all a matter of interpretation. Of course, that applies to the entire Bible. Christians like to say "the Bible says" but it does not say anything except what they interpret it to mean. The Bible does not interpret itself.

The obvious logical reason why there are so many sects of Christianity is because Christians do not all interpret the Bible the same way. So which one of them is correct in their interpretation? They all believe that they are correct, but they cannot all be correct, since their interpretations contradict each other. It if funny to watch but sad to see that Christians do not even realize what I am saying, although I have explained it over and over again.

Or, and this appears to be far more likely, he failed because he was just a man, if he existed at all. And I do agree that there are quite a few self contradictions in the Bible that Christians cannot afford to understand.

 

[Skywalker]

Or, and this appears to be far more likely, he failed because he was just a man, if he existed at all. And I do agree that there are quite a few self contradictions in the Bible that Christians cannot afford to understand.

Where does the Bible contradict itself?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Where does the Bible contradict itself?

I think we went over this. The Bible says that God lies and that he cannot lie is one example.

 

[Skywalker]

I think we went over this. The Bible says that God lies and that he cannot lie is one example.

Lying in extreme situations is an exception to the rule.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Don't pagan religions depict God as energy and all beliefs being one?

Honestly, I don't know. When I practiced, it was more of an interest but not a religion. So, a lot of it I kept like the nature reverence since I've been nature-oriented way way way before I even heard of religion. Family thing. So, in that respect, I would say every thing in nature is energetic. But as for speaking of Paganism, I don't know. @Quintessence. has more insight in it. I was trying to find some of his (her?) postings as to how he defines the gods. Few in between.

Not like Abrahamic, though. If energy/god/so have you is said to apply to "all" religions, how would you define god that would fit the criteria of common religions we know (or are new to learning from RF) outside the Abrahamic (even denominational) perspective?

 

[Skywalker]

Honestly, I don't know. When I practiced, it was more of an interest but not a religion. So, a lot of it I kept like the nature reverence since I've been nature-oriented way way way before I even heard of religion. Family thing. So, in that respect, I would say every thing in nature is energetic. But as for speaking of Paganism, I don't know. @Quintessence. has more insight in it. I was trying to find some of his (her?) postings as to how he defines the gods. Few in between.

Not like Abrahamic, though. If energy/god/so have you is said to apply to "all" religions, how would you define god that would fit the criteria of common religions we know (or are new to learning as of RF) outside the Abrahamic (even denominational) perspective?

Why would God be an energy? I would define God as the self existing Creator of all things that exist, who does all things decently and in order and is not the author of confusion.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Lying in extreme situations is an exception to the rule.

Just keep telling yourself that. There are no "extreme situations" for an omnipotent God. Are you claiming that your God is not omnipotent?

 

[Skywalker]

Just keep telling yourself that. There are no "extreme situations" for an omnipotent God. Are you claiming that your God is not omnipotent?

I was talking about situations in the Old where people lied. God can do anything as long as it's logically possible. God didn't deceive people with lying spirits, he allowed lying spirits to deceive Ahab.