Are you Certain There is no God?

[Trailblazer]

Or, and this appears to be far more likely, he failed because he was just a man, if he existed at all. And I do agree that there are quite a few self contradictions in the Bible that Christians cannot afford to understand.

I believe that Jesus was a man, but He had a twofold nature; the physical nature, pertaining to the world of matter, and the spiritual nature, which was born of the substance of God Himself. Jesus had supernatural powers but that does not mean God ever expected Him to use them to come back to earth and magically fix everything that humans messed up, as Christians 'believe' He will. Fixing this world's problems is a job for humans to do.

 

[Heyo]

Why would he say something he did not mean? The harmony of science and religion is one of the fundamental principles of the Baha'i Faith.

The same reason other religions claim to be compatible with science. Even YEC claim so - after re-defining "science".

 

[Skywalker]

I believe that Jesus was a man, but He had a twofold nature; the physical nature, pertaining to the world of matter, and the spiritual nature, which was born of the substance of God Himself. Jesus had supernatural powers but that does not mean God ever expected Him to use them to come back to earth and magically fix everything that humans messed up, as Christians 'believe' He will. Fixing this world's problems is a job for humans to do.

Jesus will come back to earth and fix everything because He is the Messiah. The Messiah has multiple roles. Jesus didn't just come to die for our sins but also that we could come before God and also to teach us how to live, so why wouldn't he return to rule for a Millennium?

 

[Trailblazer]

I don't believe that Jesus reincarnated into another body. He ressurected in the body he had to prove his authority and to prove life after death.

We already covered this territory. I never said that Jesus reincarnated in another body, I said that the Christ Spirit returned in another human body, and His name was Baha'u'llah.

I do not believe that the body of Jesus rose from the dead or that His rising was necessary to prove life after death, since it is not the body that continues to live after death, it is the soul (spirit).

421. When the body is no longer able to perform the bodily functions in the natural world that correspond to the spirit’s thoughts and affections, which the spirit has from the spiritual world, man is said to die. This takes place when the respiration of the lungs and the beatings of the heart cease. But the man does not die; he is merely separated from the bodily part that was of use to him in the world, while the man himself continues to live. It is said that the man himself continues to live since man is not a man because of his body but because of his spirit, for it is the spirit that thinks in man, and thought with affection is what constitutes man. Evidently, then, the death of man is merely his passing from one world into another. And this is why in the Word in its internal sense “death” signifies resurrection and continuation of life. Heaven and Hell, p. 351

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was, and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

 

[Trailblazer]

The book of Revelation describes the Antichrist as the crowned and conquering child. The Antichrist copies Jesus.

Baha'u'llah was not the Antichrist because He did not copy Jesus. He simply continued the work Jesus started.

 

[Skywalker]

We already covered this territory. I never said that Jesus reincarnated in another body, I said that the Christ Spirit returned in another human body, and His name was Baha'u'llah.

I do not believe that the body of Jesus rose from the dead or that His rising was necessary to prove life after death, since it is not the body that continues to live after death, it is the soul (spirit).

421. When the body is no longer able to perform the bodily functions in the natural world that correspond to the spirit’s thoughts and affections, which the spirit has from the spiritual world, man is said to die. This takes place when the respiration of the lungs and the beatings of the heart cease. But the man does not die; he is merely separated from the bodily part that was of use to him in the world, while the man himself continues to live. It is said that the man himself continues to live since man is not a man because of his body but because of his spirit, for it is the spirit that thinks in man, and thought with affection is what constitutes man. Evidently, then, the death of man is merely his passing from one world into another. And this is why in the Word in its internal sense “death” signifies resurrection and continuation of life. Heaven and Hell, p. 351

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was, and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Regarding Baha'u'llah, why did Jesus tell the apostle Peter about the apostle John, if I want him to live until I come, what is that to you?

 

[Skywalker]

Baha'u'llah was not the Antichrist because He did not copy Jesus. He simply continued the work Jesus started.

How could he have continued the work Jesus started if there is no world being ruled from Jerusalem now? The Bible never indicates a hiatus period from Jesus returning to Jesus establishing His kingdom.

 

[Trailblazer]

Jesus will come back to earth and fix everything because He is the Messiah.

Jesus is not coming back to earth. What about the following verses do you not understand?
How many times do I have to post these verses, hundreds of times?
How many times are you going to ignore them?

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

 

[Trailblazer]

Regarding Baha'u'llah, why did Jesus tell the apostle Peter about the apostle John, if I want him to live until I come, what is that to you?

Jesus never said "Until I come back to earth." Jesus never planned to come back to earth.

(John 14:19, John 17:4, John 17:11, John 19:30, John 18:36)

 

[Skywalker]

Jesus never said "Until I come back to earth." Jesus never planned to come back to earth.

(John 14:19, John 17:4, John 17:11, John 19:30, John 18:36)

Jesus didn't tell Peter, until I come to earth, because it's insinuated that is what he was referring to.

 

[Trailblazer]

How could he have continued the work Jesus started if there is no world being ruled from Jerusalem now?

Because that was never the plan. You simply believe that because of the way you have misinterpreted the Bible.

The Bible never indicates a hiatus period from Jesus returning to Jesus establishing His kingdom.

The Bible never indicates anything you believe will happen. The Kingdom of God on earth is something that humans will establish. It is going to take everyone working together to establish this, certainly the Baha’is do not believe we will be the primary builders. We believe we have the blueprint instructions from Baha’u’llah, but others are already following those instructions never having even seen them.

“God’s purpose is none other than to usher in, in ways He alone can bring about, and the full significance of which He alone can fathom, the Great, the Golden Age of a long-divided, a long-afflicted humanity. Its present state, indeed even its immediate future, is dark, distressingly dark. Its distant future, however, is radiant, gloriously radiant—so radiant that no eye can visualize it............” The Promised Day is Come, p. 116

God’s Purpose

 

[Trailblazer]

Jesus didn't tell Peter, until I come to earth, because it's insinuated that is what he was referring to.

Go ahead and post the verses in context, with the whole chapter, and I will show you that cannot be what Jesus meant.

 

[Skywalker]

Go ahead and post the verses in context, with the whole chapter, and I will show you that cannot be what Jesus meant.

The chapter is john 21.

Afterward Jesus appeared again to his disciples, by the Sea of Tiberias. [1] It happened this way:
2
Simon Peter, Thomas (called Didymus), Nathanael from Cana in Galilee, the sons of Zebedee, and two other disciples were together.
3
"I'm going out to fish," Simon Peter told them, and they said, "We'll go with you." So they went out and got into the boat, but that night they caught nothing.
4
Early in the morning, Jesus stood on the shore, but the disciples did not realize that it was Jesus.
5
He called out to them, "Friends, haven't you any fish?" "No," they answered.
6
He said, "Throw your net on the right side of the boat and you will find some." When they did, they were unable to haul the net in because of the large number of fish.
7
Then the disciple whom Jesus loved said to Peter, "It is the Lord!" As soon as Simon Peter heard him say, "It is the Lord," he wrapped his outer garment around him (for he had taken it off) and jumped into the water.
8
The other disciples followed in the boat, towing the net full of fish, for they were not far from shore, about a hundred yards. [2]
9
When they landed, they saw a fire of burning coals there with fish on it, and some bread.
10
Jesus said to them, "Bring some of the fish you have just caught."
11
Simon Peter climbed aboard and dragged the net ashore. It was full of large fish, 153, but even with so many the net was not torn.
12
Jesus said to them, "Come and have breakfast." None of the disciples dared ask him, "Who are you?" They knew it was the Lord.
13
Jesus came, took the bread and gave it to them, and did the same with the fish.
14
This was now the third time Jesus appeared to his disciples after he was raised from the dead.
15
When they had finished eating, Jesus said to Simon Peter, "Simon son of John, do you truly love me more than these?" "Yes, Lord," he said, "you know that I love you." Jesus said, "Feed my lambs."
16
Again Jesus said, "Simon son of John, do you truly love me?" He answered, "Yes, Lord, you know that I love you." Jesus said, "Take care of my sheep."
17
The third time he said to him, "Simon son of John, do you love me?" Peter was hurt because Jesus asked him the third time, "Do you love me?" He said, "Lord, you know all things; you know that I love you." Jesus said, "Feed my sheep.
18
I tell you the truth, when you were younger you dressed yourself and went where you wanted; but when you are old you will stretch out your hands, and someone else will dress you and lead you where you do not want to go."
19
Jesus said this to indicate the kind of death by which Peter would glorify God. Then he said to him, "Follow me!"
20
Peter turned and saw that the disciple whom Jesus loved was following them. (This was the one who had leaned back against Jesus at the supper and had said, "Lord, who is going to betray you?")
21
When Peter saw him, he asked, "Lord, what about him?"
22
Jesus answered, "If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me."
23
Because of this, the rumor spread among the brothers that this disciple would not die. But Jesus did not say that he would not die; he only said, "If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you?"
24
This is the disciple who testifies to these things and who wrote them down. We know that his testimony is true.
25
Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.

 

[Skywalker]

Because that was never the plan. You simply believe that because of the way you have misinterpreted the Bible.

The Bible never indicates anything you believe will happen. The Kingdom of God on earth is something that humans will establish. It is going to take everyone working together to establish this, certainly the Baha’is do not believe we will be the primary builders. We believe we have the blueprint instructions from Baha’u’llah, but others are already following those instructions never having even seen them.

“God’s purpose is none other than to usher in, in ways He alone can bring about, and the full significance of which He alone can fathom, the Great, the Golden Age of a long-divided, a long-afflicted humanity. Its present state, indeed even its immediate future, is dark, distressingly dark. Its distant future, however, is radiant, gloriously radiant—so radiant that no eye can visualize it............” The Promised Day is Come, p. 116

God’s Purpose

The Bible mentions in Isaiah and Revelation that Jesus will righteously rule the kingdoms of the world from Jerusalem. The 1000 years of world peace where the wolf lies with the lamb is related to Jesus ruling. Why do you think the Bible says thy kingdom come?

 

[Trailblazer]

The chapter is john 21.

This is a story about Peter and the disciples of Jesus fishing and it takes place on the present time. It is totally unrelated to Jesus coming back to earth later. There is nothing about Jesus returning to earth in any of these verses.

19 This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me.

20 Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?

21 Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?

22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.

 

[Skywalker]

This is a story about Peter and the disciples of Jesus fishing and it takes place on the present time. It is totally unrelated to Jesus coming back to earth later. There is nothing about Jesus returning to earth in any of these verses.

19 This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me.

20 Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?

21 Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?

22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.

What do you mean that verse takes place on the present time? Jesus wasn't talking about the present time when he said till I come. That verse is a reference to Jesus returning to earth.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Why would God be an energy? I would define God as the self existing Creator of all things that exist, who does all things decently and in order and is not the author of confusion.

In my view, "creator" sounds very unrealistic. Energy is always in motion. So, I would say "creation" created itself. It's always creating/forming/shaping and all of that. You can see the motion of energy, of "creation" just by our moving around, feeling, and so forth. Everything is all chaos. Humans make patterns and "design" so we can survive and predict what may happen in the world around us. Take seizures. They're not designed. It's the nerves deciding to act crazy and it affects our behavior and so forth. The brain knows what it's doing in the middle of it's chaos. I'd say "god" is the act of all that exists not the creator of it.

How can there be a creator when nothing can be created?

 

[Skywalker]

In my view, "creator" sounds very unrealistic. Energy is always in motion. So, I would say "creation" created itself. It's always creating/forming/shaping and all of that. You can see the motion of energy, of "creation" just by our moving around, feeling, and so forth. Everything is all chaos. Humans make patterns and "design" so we can survive and predict what may happen in the world around us. Take seizures. They're not designed. It's the nerves deciding to act crazy and it affects our behavior and so forth. The brain knows what it's doing in the middle of it's chaos. I'd say "god" is the act of all that exists not the creator of it.

How can there be a creator when nothing can be created?

How can creation have the designing ability that people have?

Because God is self existing.

 

[Trailblazer]

The Bible mentions in Isaiah and Revelation that Jesus will righteously rule the kingdoms of the world from Jerusalem. The 1000 years of world peace where the wolf lies with the lamb is related to Jesus ruling. Why do you think the Bible says thy kingdom come?

No, Isaiah and Revelation say nothing about Jesus, you just assume everything is about Jesus, like every other Christian who cannot understand what the Bible means. But Jesus never promised to return and do anything, He said His work was finished here and He was no more in the world. The return of Christ is in the Bible but the return of the same man Jesus is not in the Bible.

Thy kingdom come is not about Jesus. Jesus knew that the Kingdom of God would come to earth in the future, so Jesus asked us to pray for the kingdom to come to earth, but Ne never said He would bring that kingdom.

 

[Trailblazer]

What do you mean that verse takes place on the present time? Jesus wasn't talking about the present time when he said till I come. That verse is a reference to Jesus returning to earth.

Dream on..... You interpret it to mean that because you want Jesus to come back to earth, but nothing in that chapter says Jesus is coming back to earth, nothing. It just ain't happening.

What is the meaning of John 21?

John 21 is the twenty-first and final chapter of the Gospel of John in the New Testament of the Christian Bible. It contains an account of a post-crucifixion appearance in Galilee, which the text describes as the third time Jesus had appeared to his disciples.

John 21 - Wikipedia