Are you Certain There is no God?

[Unveiled Artist]

The universal god, is the god of all religions including pagan religions

Many pagans are polytheist. No one "main" god but individual gods.

 

[Nakosis]

I know. Some people talk like that. Like the JW's that come to my door. "Did you know God loves you? "Did you know God is love? Did you know God has a plan for your life?



It must seem peculiar to the Atheist trying to figure out why a certain percentage of so many people believe in a God that they cannot see. Have they been sent a strong delusion to believe a lie? Maybe the lie is on the other foot.



I don't think it's any fun to talk about.

I'm not looking forward to it.

I don't think it could be used to coerce people into being good, or into believing.

The actual smoke itself from their torment shall ascend forever and ever, but the lost are lost and gone forever, dreadful sorry Clementine. Their memory will remain, God will wipe away all of our our tears.

But where there's life, there's hope.

Paul said it's a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

But maybe at the last seconds of life there can still be a chance. Like when Dave was shutting down HAL, the human mind may cry out to the Lord, Lord help me.

The people who are alive when the Lord returns, will see blood and fire and columns of smoke. And whosoever shall call out on the name of the Lord, shall be saved.

You might not be called the greatest in the Kingdom of heaven at that point when you get there, blessed is the one who believes without seeing, but you'll still be greater than the greatest man born of a woman.

This is why I wonder if, at least some of the Atheists that come to this site, aren't in their own inadvertent way, seeking out God.

It's probably a good idea to seek Him while He may be found.

Don't wait until the neurotransmitters are misfiring due to the lack of arterial oxygenated blood cells.

I decided a while back that I don't want Heaven if it is not for everyone.

Just my position, it'd be immoral for me to enjoy Heaven while others can't.

 

[Skywalker]

God did not have to becomes a man, and He didn't, because God cannot become a man.

All that was necessary for the sacrifice of Jesus to be meaningful was for Jesus to make the sacrifice, to sacrifice His life on earth and ascend to heaven. But by bringing Jesus back to life with the bodily resurrection, that negates the sacrifice and takes away its meaning. I mean if Jesus came back to life, what was the sacrifice?

Why can't God become a man? God is the Creator of the universe. Jesus coming back to life doesn't negate his sacrifice, because his death on the cross was the sacrifice. Jesus came back to life to show that He is God. He didn't need to ascend to heaven to die for our sins, but he did it, and the same is true for the resurrection.

 

[Dave Watchman]

I do not know what Jesus meant but I looked at many Bible verses commentaries on those verses in John 21 and not one of them says they refer to Jesus returning to earth, and these are Christian commentaries.

I don't know what He meant either.

If it's the second coming, John must be alive somewhere.

They tried to kill John like the other disciples, but he didn't die. I read somewhere they tried to dump him into a tub of boiling oil. The guys throwing him in the tub got burned, but John was unhurt.

"According to Tertullian (in The Prescription of Heretics) John was banished (presumably to Patmos) after being plunged into boiling oil in Rome and suffering nothing from it. It is said that all in the audience of Colosseum were converted to Christianity upon witnessing this miracle.
John the Apostle - Wikipedia
​

Jesus was sort of teasing Peter about denying Him three times, was He being sarcastic to the rest when He made the comment about John? I don't think so. I think He meant to keep John alive until He could come with the material for the last Book of the Bible that John would write on the Island of Patmos in AD95.

"Jesus replied, "If I want him to live until I come back, what concern is that of yours?

"The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ.

I, John, your brother and companion in the suffering and kingdom and patient endurance that are ours in Jesus, was on the island of Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus. On the Lord’s Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet, which said: “Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea.”​

 

[Dave Watchman]

I decided a while back that I don't want Heaven if it is not for everyone.

Just my position, it'd be immoral for me to enjoy Heaven while others can't.

That sounds nice.

You sound like a nice guy.

I am not nice, in me there is no good. Girl I'm bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, I'm nationwide. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out.

Do you really think everyone should get to go?

Even the REALLY bad guys?

I'm thinking of a guy from Washington State.

Satan and his angels from the abyss?

Even they know they can't go to the Kingdom of God.

"And suddenly they cried out, saying, “What have we to do with You, Jesus, You Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the appointed time?”​

 

[Skywalker]

Assumed only by you. Find me one Bible commentary that says that is what those verses refer to.

The Gospel of John mentions the second coming of Jesus. John 21 Commentary - Expository Notes of Dr. Thomas Constable

John 21:22-23 Commentary: Did the Apostle John Die? | Revelation Revolution

John 21:22 Commentaries: Jesus said to him, "If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow Me!"

 

[Trailblazer]

The people who are alive when the Lord returns, will see blood and fire and columns of smoke. And whosoever shall call out on the name of the Lord, shall be saved.

If you are referring to Jesus returning to Earth, He ain't coming, not unless Jesus lied or the Bible is in error.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

Moreover, Jesus never promised to return to Earth, so there is not one single verse in the entire New Testament wherein Jesus said He would return. So why do Christians believe that Jesus is going to return?

You might not be called the greatest in the Kingdom of heaven at that point when you get there, blessed is the one who believes without seeing, but you'll still be greater than the greatest man born of a woman.

You won't be the greatest in the Kingdom of heaven at that point when you get there if Jesus never returns and then you die and you suddenly realize that you were wrong about the return of Jesus, and that the Bible was referring to someone else who was the return of Christ, someone you rejected because you were waiting for Jesus.

This is why I wonder if, at least some of the Atheists that come to this site, aren't in their own inadvertent way, seeking out God.

It's probably a good idea to seek Him while He may be found.

Maybe some Atheists are seeking out God, but I recommend they do a thorough investigation rather than just picking a religion that promises to save them from hellfire, because they might be sorry they acted out of fear rather than knowledge. But I have great confidence in Atheists so I think they are far too intelligent to be duped.

 

[Trailblazer]

I decided a while back that I don't want Heaven if it is not for everyone.

I feel the same way, and that's one reason I am a Baha'i.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Why couldn't God incarnated die? For the sacrifice of Jesus to be meaningful, he had to become a man and go to the cross and die for our sins.

For the Message to be meaningful, we are asked to see the Spirit contained within.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

Why can't God become a man? God is the Creator of the universe.

Simply put, God cannot become a man because then God would no longer be God, He would be a man.
Moreover, if God the Creator became a man He would no longer be the Creator, He would be the created.
Moreover, why would God want to lower Himself down and become a man?

Jesus coming back to life doesn't negate his sacrifice, because his death on the cross was the sacrifice.

Lots of criminals in those days were hung on crosses and left to die, but they did not come back to life, so who got the better deal?

Jesus came back to life to show that He is God.

None of that is in the Bible. It is a just a man-made Christian doctrine, and I consider it absurd, but you can believe it if you want to.

He didn't need to ascend to heaven to die for our sins, but he did it, and the same is true for the resurrection.

I can agree with that except for the part about the resurrection. I believe that the bodily resurrection was just stories men made up based upon myths and legends, nothing that ever really happened. I am not alone in that belief.

What many liberal theologians believe about Jesus' death

 

[Skywalker]

For the Message to be meaningful, we are asked to see the Spirit contained within.

Regards Tony

What does the Holy Spirit have to do with Jesus dying for our sins?

 

[Dave Watchman]

Moreover, Jesus never promised to return to Earth, so there is not one single verse in the entire New Testament wherein Jesus said He would return. So why do Christians believe that Jesus is going to return?

We just do. That's what we do. Jesus told us to watch, the Son of Man will come on a day that we do not expect.

Just like on the day that Lot left out from Sodom, so shall it be at the coming of the Son of Man.

"But on the day when Lot went out from Sodom, fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed them all— so will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed.
​

Paul said that day will not come until the man of sin is revealed.

"Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness a is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.​

You won't be the greatest in the Kingdom of heaven at that point when you get there if Jesus never returns and then you die and you suddenly realize that you were wrong about the return of Jesus, and that the Bible was referring to someone else who was the return of Christ, someone you rejected because you were waiting for Jesus.

I know history is full of false predictions, but about this I am sure.

I'm afraid that the Lord is coming back to roll this place up like a scroll.

Maybe some Atheists are seeking out God, but I recommend they do a thorough investigation rather than just picking a religion that promises to save them from hellfire, because they might be sorry they acted out of fear rather than knowledge. But I have great confidence in Atheists so I think they are far too intelligent to be duped.

I agree. I don't want to make myself a bad example for them. They do seem smart. But the fool says in his heart that there is no God.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

What does the Holy Spirit have to do with Jesus dying for our sins?

It is the Spirit that gives life.

Regards Tony

 

[Skywalker]

It is the Spirit that gives life.

Regards Tony

The Holy Spirit resurrecting Jesus is why I believe the body of Jesus resurrected.

 

[Trailblazer]

We just do. That's what we do. Jesus told us to watch, the Son of Man will come on a day that we do not expect.

But He did not say He was the Son of Man to be watching for.

Who is the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven?

That's what Christians do and most will keep doing it as long as they live.
What will happen when they die is up to God.

 

[Skywalker]

But He did not say He was the Son of Man to be watching for.

Who is the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven?

That's what Christians do and most will keep doing it as long as they live.
What will happen when they die is up to God.

Matthew 24: 42-44 says Jesus will be coming at an hour we don't expect.

 

[Trailblazer]

I know history is full of false predictions, but about this I am sure.

I'm afraid that the Lord is coming back to roll this place up like a scroll.

I am also sure of what I believe but the difference is that I have more than a belief, more than a hope for the future.

 

[Trailblazer]

Matthew 24: 42-44 says Jesus will be coming at an hour we don't expect.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Those verses don't say a thing about Jesus. They say "your Lord" and "the Son of man cometh."

 

[Skywalker]

Simply put, God cannot become a man because then God would no longer be God, He would be a man.
Moreover, if God the Creator became a man He would no longer be the Creator, He would be the created.
Moreover, why would God want to lower Himself down and become a man?

Lots of criminals in those days were hung on crosses and left to die, but they did not come back to life, so who got the better deal?

None of that is in the Bible. It is a just a man-made Christian doctrine, and I consider it absurd, but you can believe it if you want to.

I can agree with that except for the part about the resurrection. I believe that the bodily resurrection was just stories men made up based upon myths and legends, nothing that ever really happened. I am not alone in that belief.

What many liberal theologians believe about Jesus' death

God being a man doesn't annul his deity because He is first and foremost God, who is self existing, and he chose to become a man. Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit but that doesn't mean that He was created because He first and foremost was God, not a man. God lowered himself down and became a man because that God is the only person who could pay the price of sin. Everyone else is not perfect and thus cannot pay the price for our sins.

Why would the apostles lie about seeing Jesus resurrected if they were persecuted for their beliefs? Myths and legends do not have historical basis-hundreds of people saw Jesus after His Resurrection. The body of Jesus was resurrected to show that Jesus was God.

 

[Skywalker]

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Those verses don't say a thing about Jesus. They say "your Lord" and "the Son of man cometh."

Jesus described himself as the Son of man. In Matthew 18: 11 Jesus said, ""For the Son of Man is come to save that which was lost". Jesus said in Matthew 7:21, ""Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."