Peter was crucified and all of the Apostles but John who wrote the Book of Revelation, died for the gospel. What was overblown? Why would they spread the gospel and accept persecution for it, if it wasn't true? Their actions that they were persecuted for were directly related to their beliefs.
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Are you Certain There is no God?
- Thread starter Nakosis
- Start date
Peter was crucified and all of the Apostles but John who wrote the Book of Revelation, died for the gospel. What was overblown? Why would they spread the gospel and accept persecution for it, if it wasn't true? Their actions that they were persecuted for were directly related to their beliefs.
When do you think the world will know that the Messiah returned in the 1800s? The Bible never mentions a dispensation between the Messiah returning and ruling from Jerusalem.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Or perhaps millions only have wishful thinking. There does not appear to be reliable evidence for anyone's version of God.
Why wouldn't the God who created everything be holy and just? In a society there are laws that people not following has consequences because even the most fair judge has to be just. The God of the Bible is unique in comparison to the gods of mythology because they don't talk about the sin nature of people and God making a way for people to not just ask for forgiveness of sins but also to come to Him with an advocate and a Mediator.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
False. Where did you get that idea from? Peter was likely crucified as was Paul. And perhaps one other. That was about it. Paul never saw Jesus. And have you never seen a "true believer"? Our recent election is an excellent example of True Believers coming out. Trump clearly lost. By his own standards he lost by a landslide. Yet there are countless true believers, some of them willing to testify under penalty of perjury claiming that there was fraud. Unfortunately when sane people investigate, and those people come from both parties, there is no evidence for fraud. Those people were willing to go to prison for a person that violated all of their religious beliefs except for his opposition to abortion and his racism. If people are willing to be that insane think of what a truly charismatic leader could get his followers to do.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
He could be, but then we all know that he would not be the God of the Bible. You seem to be rather confused since we went over how the God of the Bible, especially of the Old Testament was rather evil.
What we actually see when we investigate religions is that the God of various times only at best reflect the views of the most rational people of that time. Their flaws will always be their God's flaws.
There were more people who were persecuted than Peter and Paul. What about the people who died in the catacombs and the Coliseum?
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Jesus is the God of the Old Testament. Yahweh is a reference to the Triune God not just God the Father. Jesus not only appears at times in the Old Testament despite the New Testament focusing on Jesus, but Jesus is a King in Revelation. Why do you think Jesus is a reflection of the New Testament writer's characteristics?
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
What about them? The poor were often agitating for better treatment. In those days government reprisal was strong. There is no evidence that any of them were given the chance to go free if they renounced their faith. That is something one sees only in movies.
Why would they be choose to be persecuted just for better treatment and poverty? If they didn't really see Jesus, they could have at least tried to renounce their faith.
Of course you don't. I already presented examples - all of the gods and the tales can be approached without mythological literalism and grasping "gee, maybe this is an allegory to tell the story in a more accessible way?" That you don't/can't see that is not something you're interested in overcoming based on this sort of response.
What about the Bible do you think is mythology and allegory?
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Ooh, not good. Then you are claiming that Jesus was evil. Actually the Jesus of the New Testament clearly has better morals than the God of the Old Testament. By the way, read your Bible. In it Jesus himself said that he was not God:
14 Bible Verses That Indicate Jesus Is Not God | Interfaith forums
Jesus claimed to be the son of God in most of the gospels. I think that any God claims are limited to John.
The son of God means God the Son. The devil in Isaiah is called the son of the morning and the Bible describes the Antichrist as the Son of perdition. Son means one with a special connection.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Where do you get that from? One thing that the Jehovah's witnesses have right is that the trinity is not biblical. It is a human construct to try to deal with some of the many self contradictions in the Bible. Did you check out that link? It gave specific verses and explanations of what the verses meant by context. Jesus says that he is not God.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
No, that does not compute as one has absolutely nothing to do with the other. God is Spirit and Spirit cannot become flesh.
Baha'is believe that Jesus was conceived of the Holy Spirit and that was a miracle.
Jesus was a Manifestation of God, not God incarnate. Manifestations of God are sinless.
I would not know if they made it up or just embellished it, nobody knows why it came to be written that way.
In John 4:26 Jesus said that he was the Messiah, something that someone who isn't God wouldn't have said.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Jesus cannot be both the Son of Man and also one LIKE the Son of Man because that is logically contradictory.
Where does the Bible say that spirit cannot become flesh? God spoke the universe into existence. Why couldn't He become flesh?
How could a person be sinless? Nobody can keep the Ten Commandments. If people could keep the Ten Commandments they wouldn't need a Savior. That is how weak people are.