Are you sure you are an Atheist?

[Marsh]

If we're (constantly) questioning terms like atheism, God(s) and the like, I can easily understand how 'belief in superhuman controlling power' would be a matter of debate. But this definition does say belief in AND worship of. And so that is possibly added to the debate, for what does worship mean?

I would point out that there is hardly a practicing pagan, Jew, Christian, Muslim, etc., among us who doesn't understand what worship means. No one needs to look it up (and, by the way, I accept your definition).

... if I believe and worship gravity as a god...

Acim, I've seen you arguing this and I haven't bothered to get involved in the debate. Frankly nobody worships gravity as a god. You need a different analogy.

... and you tell me gravity for you is just a 'powerful force of nature' and then I view some scientific program talking about the great appreciation that science has for gravity... one might think that is a bit worshipful in what it is conveying.

Scientists, Acim, have a fascination for all aspects of the natural world and universe and want to figure out how all of it works. One of my professors specialized in the solar interior (he wanted to understand what made the Sun tick), but he didn't worship the Sun as a god. Do geologists worship Earth as the mother goddess, or do those who specialize in spiders worship Anansi?

Oh, by the way, gravity is the weakest of the force in nature.

 

[Jabar]

and your persistent denial is one stance ....less

I think that is on your part because of the fact that you deny the evidence.

 

[Thief]

I think that is on your part because of the fact that you deny the evidence.

I believe in God
and the material world is the evidence of a Creator
(science)

I don't need your scripture.
I have the stars above and the earth beneath my feet

Spirit first

 

[Jabar]

You're going to have to help me here.
Islam is both a way of describing a particular and specific religion, and a more general word talking about submission to God, correct?

The particular and specific religion, as encapsulated in the Quran, did not exist pre-Muhammed.
People submitting to God did, correct?

Yes, but at that time period, Islam was not the same. However, not just submitting to God, and following the footsteps of the Prophets was also one as they believed in God and, plus righteous deeds. So, yes people submitting to God and not just that but doing righteous deeds and following the footsteps of prophets.

 

[Jabar]

I believe in God
and the material world is the evidence of a Creator
(science)

I don't need your scripture.
I have the stars above and the earth beneath my feet

Spirit first

I never said you did not, but you deny the scientific evidence of the Qur'an.

 

[Thief]

I never said you did not, but you deny the scientific evidence of the Qur'an.

and a scientist wrote your book?

 

[Jabar]

and a scientist wrote your book?

Qur'an is not a science book, it is the Furqan, the criteria to judge right from wrong. It contains science in it. However, primarily it is not a science book but a complete book on how to lead this tested life.

 

[Thief]

Qur'an is not a science book, it is the Furqan, the criteria to judge right from wrong. It contains science in it. However, primarily it is not a science book but a complete book on how to lead this tested life.

I don't believe your book will answer the 'test of life'

 

[Jabar]

I don't believe your book will answer the 'test of life'

I believe it will, we are all entitled to our own beliefs obviously. However, i am merely here to give a message. You might disbelieve but have no logical evidence or reasoning behind that belief, brother.

 

[Thief]

I believe it will, we are all entitled to our own beliefs obviously. However, i am merely here to give a message. You might disbelieve but have no logical evidence or reasoning behind that belief, brother.

are you assuming your path is the only one?

I believe THAT is the most basic mistake of ANY religion

( I don't have a religion...btw)

 

[Jabar]

are you assuming your path is the only one?

I believe THAT is the most basic mistake of ANY religion

( I don't have a religion...btw)

No, i believe it is the the only true one. I would not really call it a religion but more like a way of life.

 

[Thief]

No, i believe it is the the only true one. I would not really call it a religion but more like a way of life.

all religions are a 'way of life'
they would not be 'religion' without that notation

a true way of life has a foundation, all can relate to...
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you

We have never needed anything else or more

 

[Jabar]

all religions are a 'way of life'
they would not be 'religion' without that notation

a true way of life has a foundation, all can relate to...
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you

We have never needed anything else or more

Yes but that is not the only requirement in a way of life being the truth. It may have a way of life, but lets say it is to kill innocent people, is that defined as truth? Any way of life does not compete with Islam. We do need something more and that is Islam. It is the way of life for this tested life that you succeed and proceed onto the real life, Hereafter.

 

[Thief]

Yes but that is not the only requirement in a way of life being the truth. It may have a way of life, but lets say it is to kill innocent people, is that defined as truth? Any way of life does not compete with Islam. We do need something more and that is Islam. It is the way of life for this tested life that you succeed and proceed onto the real life, Hereafter.

and what item? is more than......
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you

it is a code of behavior .....and fair warning

your deed will return to you.....as you did unto others
as many times as there are angels

 

[Jabar]

and what item? is more than......
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you

it is a code of behavior .....and fair warning

your deed will return to you.....as you did unto others
as many times as there are angels

Islam already has that basic principle in there.

 

[Thief]

Islam already has that basic principle in there.

and that principle was carved in stone....a thousand years before the Carpenter walked

 

[Jabar]

and that principle was carved in stone....a thousand years before the Carpenter walked

Islam was there time immemorial. When man set foot on earth.

 

[Thief]

Islam was there time immemorial. When man set foot on earth.

ooops......

apparently you have no sense of a timeline

 

[Jabar]

ooops......

apparently you have no sense of a timeline

Apparently you do not read scriptures.

 

[Marsh]

Argue that if you wish. I tend to call myself an agnostic atheist, since I think ultimate certainty is unattainable.

I am absolutely convinced no gods exist. Certainty is attainable. I am living proof.

We really are all over the map, as @Blastcat said.

I am always concerned that we sometimes get a little too loose with the definitions. Once I argued for days with a group evangelical Christians over some matter only to realize that our different definition of faith was preventing any understanding.