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Are you sure you are an Atheist?
- Thread starter Nefelie
- Start date
Ouroboros
Coincidentia oppositorum
You said, "If we were Gods we would not be dying." Isn't "afterlife" a form of life?
When people take it to the next level and make it personal like this, I consider their argument lost. Essentially, you have nothing substantial to say, so instead of actually making a good argument for your case, you go to personal attack and mock the other person. This points to your very low ability to think and reason comprehensible and form reasonable thoughts or arguments for your view. In other words, the issue here isn't if my comprehension is to the task, but rather if your ability to even form logical thoughts and express them comprehensibly to other people. With that, I bid you adieu. You and I have nothing more to discuss.
Great question.
Allah made the world diverse for a reason.
He gave people a free will so that they can choose what they want however still receiving the message.
They choose to accept it or not.
Enabling Christianity, Judaism, and etc makes the world diverse, and Allah gave people that free will.
He selected certain Prophets at different locations to send the message for a particular group and time period.
Allah has blessed people and gave them a free will, they chose to not follow the truth when given which caused the parting of ways.
Then how did he know Muhammad would be successful?
Jabar
“Strive always to excel in virtue and truth.”
Who Allah?
Sorry, yes. Allah.
Jabar
“Strive always to excel in virtue and truth.”
Because he is All-Knowing obviously.
But we have free will. As in, the ability to make our own choices. Free will and fate are not concepts which sit comfortably together. How do you reconcile them?
Jabar
“Strive always to excel in virtue and truth.”
They do, you have received the message and rejected it.
Thus, you causing your own loss.
God is not blamed for anything.
Marsh
Active Member
This seems like an absurd request. We see and experience only a material universe. It is as if your are asking me to prove the Sun exists.
Marsh
Active Member
Ouroboros, all pantheists, or only some, accept the notion of life after death? If you do accept such a thing then what do you propose this particular afterlife is like?
Marsh
Active Member
Indeed, even I am a god, but somewhere along the way I lost all my powers.Acim's definition of "God" includes darn near anything, I've come to find out.
Objective evidence is an absurd request? I'm saying find evidence that doesn't rely on perception to establish existence of the material universe. Saying you / we can see the universe with our physical eyes is like saying God exists because the bible says so.
Indeed, even I am a god, but somewhere along the way I lost all my powers.
You've lost the ability to create? To Love? To live?
Ouroboros
Coincidentia oppositorum
My question was to him, because he suggested that humans aren't gods since we die. But how can he believe humans live forever but don't live forever at the same time? Afterlife and eternal life is essentially the belief that humans will live forever like gods.
So I just wondered how we can in his faith die andown not be gods and simultaneous live forever like gods. It's an apparent contradiction in his counter claim.
Nefelie
Member
All though I know that Ouroboros was trying to make a point for Jabar, I’d like you to consider the following:
- Energy in the universe always remains within the same “quantities” (so to speak). It neither increases nor decreases. It only changes form. Democritus said that and, latter, Newton agreed. Consider the fact that matter is also a form of energy and that every human has many other forms of energy within him: thermic, wind and water energy, electric, kinetic, chemic, etc.
- Everything changes and nothing remains exactly the same - Heraclitus said that and all scientists have agreed so far.
- Man is a miniature of the cosmos (universe) - that was also Democritus.
Put them all together and what do you have? What do you think happens after just one of our energy form (material) dies out?
And what powers are/where those?
.
I blame God for nothing. I'd love to hear you explain dealing with the cognitive dissonance involved in believing in free will and unalterable fate.
I can think of a couple of ways, neither of which would sit comfortably in my mind. But mere assertion is not going to get it done.
Explain how fate and free will co-exist.
Jabar
“Strive always to excel in virtue and truth.”
I do not get what you mean how fate and free will co-exist.
But your free will can either be useful or not useful.
You have to use it in the right way,
If not, then fate is that you might go to Hell.
Although, Allah knows best and is the best of Judges.
Marsh
Active Member
Ancient wisdom aside, arm chair philosophizing cannot often get us to the truth. There was a time Nefelie that your argument for the conservation of energy was one I also employed in support of an afterlife: the afterlife was as natural as thunderstorms. When we die, when anything dies, that energy is not lost, it simply dissipates into the surrounding environment. It is a nice thought that we somehow pass into a new existence, along with our beloved pets, but there is little evidence for it, and when I say "little" I am being generous. One of my philosophy profs admitted to believing in an afterlife, but he was also upfront with the class and said there was absolutely no evidence for it. He covered all the attempted experiments (up to that time), near death experiences, attempts to investigate stories of ghosts, etc., but concluded that we were left only with the hope of a life beyond the grave. By the way, this was a philosophy of religion course and he spent one lecture period on this topic.
I know how tempting it is to believe in life after death, but I have come to accept that it is simply wishful thinking. So, I think you have answered my question in part. You believe in survival after death, but do all pantheists believe this, and how much of the individual personality is it that you think survives?
If I am to be a god, as pantheists assert I am, then I want something to show for it; I wouldn't mind some god-like powers: perhaps the ability to recognize a winning lottery ticket before I make my purchase.Nefelie said:
Thief
Rogue Theologian
obviously you are a Star Trek fan.....If I am to be a god, as pantheists assert I am, then I want something to show for it; I wouldn't mind some god-like powers: perhaps the ability to recognize a winning lottery ticket before I make my purchase.
and you know the episodes of ET having god like powers?
there you go.....