Are you with UN "global" law prohibition the provocation "mock/insult/lie", about all religions ?

[9Westy9]

are you in every muslim house? and peak into others private bedroom? not in all family occur wife beat, i told majority muslim agree wife beat is needed for some situation

and can the wife beat the husband in some situations? If not you have yourself a double standard

 

[McBell]

It wouldnt be subjective. Force(F) and Pressure(p) arent subjective figures. You can calculate them without a problem.

That is not the part I figure to be subjective...

 

[tumbleweed41]

Our prophet not has allowed to insult him. understand?

Exactly!!!

YOUR prophet does not allow YOU to insult him.
So if others outside your belief insult YOUR prophet, it is no concern of yours.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I think a negative image about Muslims is being unfairly propagated here due to the extreme, misogynistic views being so strongly supported by some.

I know many Muslims, and none of them would ever raise a hand against their wives. None of the Muslim men or women I know would support wife-beating in any way, and they have healthy, functioning households. They don't need to resort to abuse as a means of "marital correction." It hasn't affected their lives, their families, or their well-being, and it certainly hasn't prevented them from being devout, practicing Muslims. They don't 'reject' any part of the Qur'an or Hadith, but they still lead healthy lives.

Sometimes I think that people will only see what they want to see, even if it means giving a false image of their entire culture and religion as intolerant, bigoted, and abusive. A person who is ready to beat their wife doesn't really need a scriptural verse to justify it; twisting the verse's meaning to fit whatever that person wants to do would only serve as icing on the cake for an already unwell mind willing to abuse his wife by beating her into submission or for "marital correction" purposes.

And I think this manifests in the fact that there are billions of people who presumably follow the same religion and scripture, yet the ones who use scripture to try to justify such things as domestic abuse/wife-beating are usually the loudest. The majority don't seem to have a need to make a fuss about these issues, because they aren't trying to twist their religion to fit a particular meaning or agenda.

 

[beenie]

I think a negative image about Muslims is being unfairly propagated here due to the extreme, misogynistic views being so strongly supported by some.

I know many Muslims, and none of them would ever raise a hand against their wives. None of the Muslim men or women I know would support wife-beating in any way, and they have healthy, functioning households. They don't need to resort to abuse as a means of "marital correction." It hasn't affected their lives, their families, or their well-being, and it certainly hasn't prevented them from being devout, practicing Muslims. They don't 'reject' any part of the Qur'an or Hadith but still lead healthy lives.

Sometimes I think that people will only see what they want to see, even if it means giving a false image of their entire culture and religion as intolerant, bigoted, and abusive. A person who is ready to beat their wife doesn't really need a scriptural verse to justify it; twisting the verse's meaning to fit whatever that person wants to do would only serve as icing on the cake for an already unwell mind willing to abuse his wife by beating her into submission or for "marital correction" purposes.

And I think this manifests in the fact that there are billions of people who presumably follow the same religion and scripture, yet the ones who use scripture to try to justify such things as domestic abuse/wife-beating are usually the loudest. The majority don't seem to have a need to make a fuss about these issues, because they aren't trying to twist their religion to fit a particular meaning or agenda.

How old are you again? You are so very wise beyond your years.

Well said, my friend. :yes:

 

[Me Myself]

I think a negative image about Muslims is being unfairly propagated here due to the extreme, misogynistic views being so strongly supported by some.

I know many Muslims, and none of them would ever raise a hand against their wives. None of the Muslim men or women I know would support wife-beating in any way, and they have healthy, functioning households. They don't need to resort to abuse as a means of "marital correction." It hasn't affected their lives, their families, or their well-being, and it certainly hasn't prevented them from being devout, practicing Muslims. They don't 'reject' any part of the Qur'an or Hadith, but they still lead healthy lives.

Sometimes I think that people will only see what they want to see, even if it means giving a false image of their entire culture and religion as intolerant, bigoted, and abusive. A person who is ready to beat their wife doesn't really need a scriptural verse to justify it; twisting the verse's meaning to fit whatever that person wants to do would only serve as icing on the cake for an already unwell mind willing to abuse his wife by beating her into submission or for "marital correction" purposes.

And I think this manifests in the fact that there are billions of people who presumably follow the same religion and scripture, yet the ones who use scripture to try to justify such things as domestic abuse/wife-beating are usually the loudest. The majority don't seem to have a need to make a fuss about these issues, because they aren't trying to twist their religion to fit a particular meaning or agenda.

I have never tried to say all Muslims enforce or wish to enforce the full "rights" the Qran "allows" them to enforce.

Just setting that clear. The (out of theme) discussion was about what the religion says, and the fact that it being religious means one cannot say it is outrageous, stupid, unequal or any other "insulting" thing about it. Some behavior that if it were on a non "religious" text, it would be easily and obviously mocked and despised openly.

Wait no, what I said was in theme, the fact that we started getting too specific about it was the thing

 

[Me Myself]

Back on topic:

Faith is something that should be able to withstand criticism, mockery, and insult. Do you honestly think the Prophet is insulted by some dumb movie?

I'm going to make this very simple: The rule stating that you may not insult the Prophet is for MUSLIMS, Godobeyer. It's not for non-Muslims, just like the pork-eating rule, etc. Non-Muslims living in Muslim-ruled lands are not held to Islamic laws... you know that. The UN doesn't have any responsibility to coddle anyone from being "insulted". You should be glad too, because if so, all the hateful comments Muslims make about "the evil West", Judaism, and Christianity would have to be banned too.

Now this makes sense to me.

 

[Me Myself]

why cant understand?
wife beat is legal if wife believe wife beat is in islam and they permit us. Our prophet not has allowed to insult him. understand?

If he had, insulting him would be tasteless

I mean, for that I could insult Buddha, but quite honestly, he is so much of a bigger man about it, that I simply cannot . I mean I could try, but insulting Buddha would be impossible.

For those who choose to be offended though, they take a very weak stance... and it shows fast.

 

[Godobeyer]

I think my position is quite clear:

As for "rebuilding" my position, I recall conversations in previous threads where I assumed the same stance throughout. Do you think there would have been nearly as many arguments between us about this issue if we really were in agreement?

Ah,that's mean i am right that you told me that you "rebuilding" your position twice (change your position twice)

Indeed ,you told me that you rebuilt(change) your position twice ,about wife-beat , that's why i asked you to post our PM dailogue here , but you don't agree !!!.

Indeed ,we had agreement about the wife-beating , you told me that agree with Quran but you don't agree with me in use it to wife beating when she get out without permission, and "you blame" me that i made the subject looks like beating the wife for any vanity/potty reason .and you have rebuilt (change) your position twice about this issue .

I believe there might be a misunderstanding, but I think I've made myself clear enough.

if you said that your rebuilding your position twice (change your opinion) about soft-beat, who is the responsible for the misunderstanding ? you or me ?

If you answer the question above in the affirmative, then I think that many people would disagree with you and even find your views offensive and provocative. Who is to say, then, that you shouldn't be banned from expressing them under the same premises you're basing your arguments on?

i have no problem to disagree with people or they disagree with me .
i am here to argue and debate with all people with all respect .but i don't respect the double stand opinion what ever their religion .

I don't see the necessity to do so; I believe I have made my stance on this issue quite clear in this thread and others.

for me your stand is not clear ,in other thread too "woman on line " , sometimes you are with soft-beat and sometimes you are against.

I remember in that time , i sent you many PM, asked you to represent your clear opinion.
then when you argued with me, i posted our PMs in Islamic privet dir ,in that time the staffs asked me to remove them , because i posted them without your permission .

btw your recently PMs (your request) pop up me , are you with discuss them here ?
i find them very very intersting.

Also, I wouldn't really like private messages (emphasis on 'private') being posted in the open forums. I think that would be a breach of privacy as well as confidentiality of PMs between individual members.

I wouldn't try to jump to conclusions about whether or not you're 'lying'. Maybe you just have a misunderstanding of my position on this issue and believe that I somehow agree with you, but I think I've made my opinions clear on several occasions to avoid any possible misunderstanding.

So in case I wasn't clear enough the last few times I said this, I'll reiterate my stance: I think wife-beating is degrading, demeaning, and insulting to both men and women. Feel free to disagree with me, but I think my statements here should ensure that it's entirely clear to you from now on that you and I don't share the same views on this issue.

why i have no problem to post my PM dailogue in arabic, but you have?
then why you don't accuse me that i am LYING about you (in recently PM or in this thread) when i said you had double position in PM and thread ?!!!


I believe every one is responsible for his own opinion in thread or in PM.
if you told me an opinion in PM (PM in arabic) different then the opinion that you posting in this thread ,that's your reponsibility and your fault, NOT mind .
that's your problem that you informed me that you changed (rebuilt) your position (opinion) twice about the beat-wife .
because this confusing and double stand (opinion) and not clear opinion , let some people here called me "lair" .

 

[Godobeyer]

Hey , people , all the world know that Islamic laws:
soft-beat wife "Nashiz".
cut the hand of the theif.
stone the adultery .
....etc

why some people lie (make up) islam here .

 

[apophenia]

*shudder*

 

[NIX]

I find it amusing that the UN would sanction such a law when some religious books threaten eternal torture to others of a different belief or non belief so i would oppose the UN,unless of course the offending parts of these books were removed too,it would have the benefit of making them pocket sized .

Ahh...I hadnt read this gem from Eml.

:bow:

Quite!

As well, I think Discordianism itself would be prohibited by this law to such an extent that it could no longer be practiced. What Discordian doesn't mock what he holds sacred, and hold sacred what she mocks?

 

[NIX]

Quite!

As well, I think Discordianism itself would be prohibited by this law to such an extent that it could no longer be practiced. What Discordian doesn't mock what he holds sacred, and hold sacred what she mocks?

oooohhhh OTHER beliefs.
Its fine to mock, insult and lie about YOUR OWN beliefs.
That's a relief.

 

[NIX]

People are insulted, not 'faiths' or 'beliefs'. If you're gunna make laws that state you can't insult people-- Christians and Muslims are gunna be some of the biggest first offenders (offending homosexuals, non-married partners... and their god only knows who else). Eventually following will be everyone else. Who doesn't ever offend anyone?

 

[apophenia]

Hey , people , all the world know that Islamic laws:
soft-beat wife "Nashiz".
cut the hand of the theif.
stone the adultery .
....etc

why some people lie (make up) islam here .

So what do you think of this ? ( The chapter headings are all links btw )
Women In Islam

The Place of Women in Pure Islam

by M. Rafiqul-Haqq and P. Newton

1. Contents -
   Men's Superiority
   Women's Deficiencies
   What is a Woman?
   Husband's Rights
   Woman's Rights
   Man's Prerogatives
   The Significance of the Marriage Contract
   The Significance of the Dowry
   Spiritual Standing of Women
   Conclusion

I found this by googling the word 'Nashiz', after reading your last post. I'm not sure what most muslims would say about this article. I can't even tell if it is pro or anti Islam, or neither. Could be taken either way - but it seems to be fairly well documented, with extensive references.

Is it accurate Godobeyer ? This is a serious question. Does this article present views you endorse ?

Also to other muslims here - what do you think of this article ? Is it a fair summation ?

 

[Flankerl]

when she get out without permission

Oh no how could she!:no::no::no::no::no:

 

[beenie]

So what do you think of this ? ( The chapter headings are all links btw )
Women In Islam

The Place of Women in Pure Islam

by M. Rafiqul-Haqq and P. Newton

1. Contents -
   Men's Superiority
   Women's Deficiencies
   What is a Woman?
   Husband's Rights
   Woman's Rights
   Man's Prerogatives
   The Significance of the Marriage Contract
   The Significance of the Dowry
   Spiritual Standing of Women
   Conclusion

I found this by googling the word 'Nashiz', after reading your last post. I'm not sure what most muslims would say about this article. I can't even tell if it is pro or anti Islam, or neither. Could be taken either way - but it seems to be fairly well documented, with extensive references.

Is it accurate Godobeyer ? This is a serious question. Does this article present views you endorse ?

Also to other muslims here - what do you think of this article ? Is it a fair summation ?

That is an anti-Islam website; google "answering Christianity" and you'll see what I mean.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

i have no problem to disagree with people or they disagree with me .i am here to argue and debate with all people with all respect....

It is disrespectful to ignore direct questions during debate.

And it makes people think that you have not come here for debate -- but rather that you are here to preach your own views without listening to other views.

 

[Godobeyer]

That is an anti-Islam website; google "answering Christianity" and you'll see what I mean.

i told you before , that he use anti-islam sites .

 

[Godobeyer]

It is disrespectful to ignore direct questions during debate.

And it makes people think that you have not come here for debate -- but rather that you are here to preach your own views without listening to other views.

sorry, for not reply for all the post and question , i don't have internet connect at home for months, i am now in cybercafe.