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As Arranged, Trump Has Been Acquitted

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
It has escaped memory at this point beyond "this person did this" and "someone said that." Comey does basically conclude by saying he isn't saying is guilty, but he's not that is Trump is not guilty, either.
Let's say that someone.....Bob...travelled in time from 1980 to our time.
So Bob is unfamiliar with this whole controversy.
He's a reasonably intelligent fellow...high school grad, an atheist, & all.
Bob read your & Columbus's posts arguing that Trump colluded with the Russians.
He noticed that there were no excerpts from any reports cited.
Just impressions remembered.
Should Bob be convinced by what's been presented?
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
Bob read your & Columbus's posts arguing that Trump colluded with the Russians.
Might this Bob have access to the last few years news?
Is he dependent on what we find time to post about on RF?

Or does Bob have access to Trump's tax returns and other financial data? Trump's tweets? His lies about the previous POTUS? His campaign claims and followup endeavors?
Does Bob have access to Putin's communications with Trump? With Assange? With Russian cyber experts?

Does Bob have a basic understanding of rational thought and an understanding of the concept "plausiblity"? The expectations of Congress concerning Presidential behavior?


Or not?

Maybe Bob's just another low information Scottish type person, more interested in financing his machine fetish than the long term good of the USA.

Who knows?
Tom
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Does Bob have a basic understanding of rational thought and an understanding of the concept "plausiblity"? The expectations of Congress concerning Presidential behavior?
Arguing that plausibility is proof, eh.
You can't even spell the word.
 
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Guitar's Cry

Disciple of Pan
Let's say that someone.....Bob...travelled in time from 1980 to our time.
So Bob is unfamiliar with this whole controversy.
He's a reasonably intelligent fellow...high school grad, an atheist, & all.
Bob read your & Columbus's posts arguing that Trump colluded with the Russians.
He noticed that there were no excerpts from any reports cited.
Just impressions remembered.
Should Bob be convinced by what's been presented?

According to the wiki article on it, the Mueller investigation forcused on "coordination" rather than "collusion" because it is not really a legal term. They found over a hundred contacts between Trump advisors and Russian government folk, but nothing substantial enough to prove a conspiracy.

Given the meeting at the Trump tower between Trump Jr. et al, and folks with Russian dirt on Hilary (also lacking enough evidence to prosecute), the refusal to put out anything but a redacted report on the part of the Trump administration, and what we know about Trump's character (willingness to lie, break with established conduct, his interest and admirationof men like Putin, and threaten and harass witnesses) it isn't a stretch to believe coordination occurred.

Mueller Report - Wikipedia
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
These foreigners have no understanding of our system.

Sure they do.

They also understand what a cover up looks like.

My point was that foreigners have a preferred perspective for making more objective assessments than Trump supporters living in America.

They believe that because it's called a "trail", that it was about guilt or innocence. It isn't that kind of trial according to our Constitution. It's a vote to keep or boot the President.

Irrelevant. Whatever the purpose of the proceedings, they know a sham trial when they see one. People understand why other people feel the need to conceal information, and it's not because they're innocent.

This isn't rocket science.

You might think that Trump's successful efforts to obstruct the inquiry means more than Trump is good at avoiding consequences for his unethical behavior. But I don't.

Agreed. Trump certainly wasn't exonerated in the eyes of most of the world, nor half of America, but America's reputation on the world stage took another hit. Every American should be ashamed of that dog and pony show that played out publicly throughout the world.

You don't know what you were prevented from knowing.
To believe that it's what you hope for is reckless.

To believe that something wasn't covered up and excuse this president based on a sham trial that would acquit Trump of any charges in the face of any evidence is reckless behavior that sets an unfortunate new low for justice in America.

America is now officially behaving like a banana republic, and has a corrupting influence on those defending all of this similar to what I see with biblical apologists attempting the defend the actions of their god, who find ways to justify slavery, genocide, etc.. When you feel you need to defend the indefensible, you suffer for it. When you choose to overlook the unacceptable, you compromise yourself. When a nation does the same, it should expect to pay a price as well.

Yeah, that dirty sodomite! I bet he does stuff like cheat on his spouse with porn stars while while his spouse is at home with their newborn child! I bet he brags about how he grabs people by the crotches and kisses them without their permission! I bet he mocks handicapped people! I bet he refers to immigrants as murderers and rapists! I bet he used his own charity to enrich himself! I bet he defrauded a bunch of students out of an education and then had to pay out a $25 million settlement to cover his fraudulent butt! I bet 17+ people have accused him of sexually harrassing them! I bet he perpetuates racist conspiracy theories about where past presidents were born! I bet he sits around insulting the people he doesn't like all day long calling them all sorts of childish names and making up stories about their wives, parents and children! I bet he purposely walks into change rooms full of teenage girls just so he can catch them off guard with their clothes off so he can ogle them! I bet he tells 10 year olds that he'll be dating them someday! I bet a bunch of the people he fills his administration with will end up in prison for fraud and perjury! The scumbag!

Trump is a wonderful human being and presently the face of a very proud America, which once again took the lead in showing the world its very high standards. Trump is the choice of the American people, who must be fine people indeed to make such a choice.

But yes, the hypocrisy is stunning.
 

Spartan

Well-Known Member
Yeah, that dirty sodomite! I bet he does stuff like cheat on his spouse with porn stars while while his spouse is at home with their newborn child!
I bet he brags about how he grabs people by the crotches and kisses them without their permission! I bet he mocks handicapped people! I bet he refers to immigrants as murderers and rapists! I bet he used his own charity to enrich himself! I bet he defrauded a bunch of students out of an education and then had to pay out a $25 million settlement to cover his fraudulent butt! I bet 17+ people have accused him of sexually harrassing them! I bet he perpetuates racist conspiracy theories about where past presidents were born! I bet he sits around insulting the people he doesn't like all day long calling them all sorts of childish names and making up stories about their wives, parents and children! I bet he purposely walks into change rooms full of teenage girls just so he can catch them off guard with their clothes off so he can ogle them! I bet he tells 10 year olds that he'll be dating them someday! I bet a bunch of the people he fills his administration with will end up in prison for fraud and perjury! The scumbag!

Oh .... wait. That's someone else. Now who could it be ....

LOL. You guys had your hopes up trying to get rid of Trump, didn't you? You must have wet-nursed and fantasized about that pipe dream for years. First, it was the 2016 election, when you woke up the next morning bawling your eyes out like two year olds. Your resident gas bags Hillary Clinton and Bernie the Socialist folded like cheap pup tents. Next was "Russia, Russia, Russia," and the Mueller Investigation, and that collusion fantasy went down the commode quicker than an aborted Planned Parenthood fetus. Along with that went your next abortion, the Democrat's Emolument Lawsuit, which the Court of Appeals also sent to the trash heap. And all along the way, your Loony-Tune liberals friends kept running more of their mangy dogs around the arena for an Impeachment ribbon - treason, bribery, and whatever else the nut bags could dream up. Nope, none of that passed muster either. And finally, the Grand Finale - the specialite de la maison - abuse of power and obstruction of Congress. How'd that work out for you, SK? More "morning after" despair and anguish for you. LOL.

But you want to know something? Even with all Trump's warts, he was STILL a much better President than all your other pet slugs combined. It was hilarious watching the pained faces of the Democrats - along with Madame Pelosi chewing her cud - sitting on their hands when one awesome achievement after another by Trump was noted in his SOTU speech.

So take all your whines and insults about Trump and run them around the arena once more, and see if anyone in their right mind cares.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
LOL. You guys had your hopes up trying to get rid of Trump, didn't you? You must have wet-nursed and fantasized about that pipe dream for years. First, it was the 2016 election, when you woke up the next morning bawling your eyes out like two year olds. Your resident gas bags Hillary Clinton and Bernie the Socialist folded like cheap pup tents. Next was "Russia, Russia, Russia," and the Mueller Investigation, and that collusion fantasy went down the commode quicker than an aborted Planned Parenthood fetus. Along with that went your next abortion, the Democrat's Emolument Lawsuit, which the Court of Appeals also sent to the trash heap. And all along the way, your Loony-Tune liberals friends kept running more of their mangy dogs around the arena for an Impeachment ribbon - treason, bribery, and whatever else the nut bags could dream up. Nope, none of that passed muster either. And finally, the Grand Finale - the specialite de la maison - abuse of power and obstruction of Congress. How'd that work out for you, SK? More "morning after" despair for you. LOL.

But you want to know something? Even with all Trump's warts, he was STILL a much better President than all your other pet slugs combined. It was hilarious watching the pained faces of the Democrats - along with Madame Pelosi chewing her cud - sitting on their hands when one awesome achievement after another by Trump was noted.

So take all your whines and insults about Trump and run them around the arena once more, and see how that works out for you.

Who are the Medal of Honor recipients that Trump fired today?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
According to the wiki article on it, the Mueller investigation forcused on "coordination" rather than "collusion" because it is not really a legal term. They found over a hundred contacts between Trump advisors and Russian government folk, but nothing substantial enough to prove a conspiracy.

Given the meeting at the Trump tower between Trump Jr. et al, and folks with Russian dirt on Hilary (also lacking enough evidence to prosecute), the refusal to put out anything but a redacted report on the part of the Trump administration, and what we know about Trump's character (willingness to lie, break with established conduct, his interest and admirationof men like Putin, and threaten and harass witnesses) it isn't a stretch to believe coordination occurred.

Mueller Report - Wikipedia
To claim admiration of Putin is questionable.
Dealing with foreign powers would mean pretending friendliness.
Clearly, many want to believe there was collusion. But given how
sloppy Trump is, the fact that no concrete evidence has been found
looks pretty deflating to the claim. But as with all conspiracies not
disprovable, belief will persist.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Sure they do.

They also understand what a cover up looks like.

My point was that foreigners have a preferred perspective for making more objective assessments than Trump supporters living in America.
And yet so many misunderstand our system, opining nonetheless.
Irrelevant. Whatever the purpose of the proceedings, they know a sham trial when they see one. People understand why other people feel the need to conceal information, and it's not because they're innocent.

This isn't rocket science.
Rocket science it isn't, but these ferriners still
get it, wrong, generally for partisan reasons.
Did you complain about Clinton's "sham trial"?
Agreed. Trump certainly wasn't exonerated in the eyes of most of the world, nor half of America, but America's reputation on the world stage took another hit. Every American should be ashamed of that dog and pony show that played out publicly throughout the world.
Of course he wasn't exonerated.
Although some here will misunderstand or misrepresent it as such.
To believe that something wasn't covered up and excuse this president based on a sham trial that would acquit Trump of any charges in the face of any evidence is reckless behavior that sets an unfortunate new low for justice in America.
Here's your mistake...you think the trial was about justice.
It wasn't. It was about removal or not.
America is now officially behaving like a banana republic, and has a corrupting influence on those defending all of this similar to what I see with biblical apologists attempting the defend the actions of their god, who find ways to justify slavery, genocide, etc.. When you feel you need to defend the indefensible, you suffer for it. When you choose to overlook the unacceptable, you compromise yourself. When a nation does the same, it should expect to pay a price as well.
Many are deeply wounded that Trump beat Hillary, & then beat the
Democrats' attempt to remove him from office. But this is how our
system works. It functioned as designed, so yes we have no bananas.

It reminds me of people who still say that Hillary won, & Donald lost.
They either don't understand our system, or they're in denial about
how elections here work. If it works the way it's designed, then
democracy is safe....even if we dislike the people who lead.
Trump is a wonderful human being and presently the face of a very proud America, which once again took the lead in showing the world its very high standards. Trump is the choice of the American people, who must be fine people indeed to make such a choice.

But yes, the hypocrisy is stunning.
Not liking the system or how it plays out isn't hypocrisy.
Although a good example of it is the double standard
applied to Clinton's vs Trump's impeachment.
 

osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
Not at all that I am for Trump. He needs to be voted out of office. But I would like to see hard evidence of his abuse of power, and obstruction of justice.

The trial could very well be a sham. Either way opinionated news articles are not going to tell the whole story. I really just want to see the facts.
 

Guitar's Cry

Disciple of Pan
Like I said, if people don't repent they will perish (Luke 13:3). Trump has repented, the Sodomite Buttigieg hasn't.

Trump hasn't repented. He is still a vindictive, materialistic narcissist using religion to woo the conservatives (and maybe soothe his soul).

I see you yourself appear to buy into that ideology.
 

Guitar's Cry

Disciple of Pan
To claim admiration of Putin is questionable.
Dealing with foreign powers would mean pretending friendliness.
Clearly, many want to believe there was collusion. But given how
sloppy Trump is, the fact that no concrete evidence has been found
looks pretty deflating to the claim. But as with all conspiracies not
disprovable, belief will persist.

I find it more difficult to believe Trump is willing to feign friendliness than that he is capable of using his resources to hide evidence. There is evidence that he is hiding evidence: the unredacted Mueller report for one and the uncooperative nature of the people involved.

Regardless, none of that makes it unreasonable for a sensible person to conclude some sort of "coordination." (Or vice versa, I suppose, if I look unbiased at it.)
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I find it more difficult to believe Trump is willing to feign friendliness....
I think Trump is quite capable of bearing false friendliness.
.....than that he is capable of using his resources to hide evidence.
While he is willing to wield power to hide things, he also strikes me
as rather incompetent. It could be that I have a lower opinion of
him than do you.
There is evidence that he is hiding evidence: the unredacted Mueller report for one and the uncooperative nature of the people involved.
"Evidence that he is hiding evidence" is a weak
basis to say he colluded with Russia in 2016.
Regardless, none of that makes it unreasonable for a sensible person to conclude some sort of "coordination." (Or vice versa, I suppose, if I look unbiased at it.)
No, it's not reasonable to conclude there was
collusion when no evidence has been presented.
However attractive the belief is to some, it is still
just a belief. Certainly possible...but just a belief.
 

Guitar's Cry

Disciple of Pan
I think Trump is quite capable of bearing false friendliness.

I think he is capable, but either struggles greatly with it or is very strategic with it (look at his quarrels with some leaders and admiration for others who are often politically authoritarian).

While he is willing to wield power to hide things, he also strikes me
as rather incompetent. It could be that I have a lower opinion of
him than do you.

You might! (In that area.) I do think he has some abilities in manipulating people, and especially in using his resources to do so (which includes people more competent than him).

"Evidence that he is hiding evidence" is a weak
basis to say he colluded with Russia in 2016.

It could be. But suspicion is suspicion. I'm not convicting him, only making a character judgement.

No, it's not reasonable to conclude there was
collusion when no evidence has been presented.
However attractive the belief is to some, it is still
just a belief. Certainly possible...but just a belief.

It is reasonable. Even Mueller seemed to have his suspicions as evidenced in his report.

Perhaps I should change my language to "it is reasonable to suspect" rather than "conclude"?
 

Spartan

Well-Known Member
Trump hasn't repented. He is still a vindictive, materialistic narcissist using religion to woo the conservatives (and maybe soothe his soul).

I see you yourself appear to buy into that ideology.

You don't know what you're blabbing about.
 
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